I've been offered SBLs

What year?  What generation are they?  Has he ever done a service on them?  (Gaskets, etc.)

Be aware they need careful handling/packaging and installation-although there is a lot of information out there about doing this.

If they are good then they are worth twice that IMHO

Bruce

I am presently enjoying my second pair (not in a row, there have been four pairs of N-Sats and one of Credo in the meantime) and in my opinion they are definitely worth buying. They are not plug&play and need some attention in placement plus the chance that the gaskets and the pads need replacing, but it is not a difficult job, makes a lot of difference sound wise and will give you a pleasant feeling of having actively taken part in the process. They have a clean, neat (pun intended, Chris..) and fast presentation and are made for an attentive, critical listener who is looking for a rhythmic and transparent rendition of recordings.

(Apologies for the bunch of double adjectives, it's the 21st Century Schizoid Man in me..)

M

Steve, I've slightly amended your thread title to ensure that there's no risk of any rules being inadvertently broken.

That sounds like a good price if they have the Mk2 bass drivers, which were made by Naim, rather than the previous Mordaunt Short units. The older units have a raised lip around the edge, whereas the later ones are flat. The full Mk2 SBLs, with the all over veneer (on the back, and on the top and bottom of the boxes) are the very best. 

Bear in mind that very old SBLs, which may still of course be in mint condition, may have rather tired drivers and crossovers, which would cost an arm and a leg to replace. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Bear in mind that very old SBLs, which may still of course be in mint condition, may have rather tired drivers and crossovers, which would cost an arm and a leg to replace. 

SBLs of any age may have worn out tweeters and x-overs, but it doesn't cost that much to replace them, about 600 quid for a SBL tweeter & x-over package from you local naim audio dealer. The mid/bass drivers tend to last far longer but is a buyers deal breaker if found to be faulty. Early SL2s are now old enough to possibly benefit from replacement tweeters, depends how much they've been used i suppose.

Debs

The market for sbls has dropped out now. You will see plenty of listings on ebay asking for 700 the rality is in the completed listings though. Max is 500 and thats all i would offer for even the best pair out there.

Fabulous speakers - worth far more in current terms than £700 if properly sited . Go for it !

barry

garyi posted:

The market for sbls has dropped out now. You will see plenty of listings on ebay asking for 700 the rality is in the completed listings though. Max is 500 and thats all i would offer for even the best pair out there.

I expect the SBL market has succumbed to cult status.

It's probably these days that most SLBs out there are not sounding their best due to gradual deterioration of parts, mainly tweeters and x-overs, and the owners often don't realise the performance is far below par, and which could easily be brought back to as good as new with a little leap of faith buying some new parts and a careful rebuild. Or maybe they are being given up because the owners can afford a new fugly bling plug in and play pair for big bucks money. There are quite a few SBLs on the market now, so supply looks to be greater than demand which equates to better value for money and a buyers market, however this may change over time.

IMO the value of SBL depends upon cabinet condition, and bass/driver condition. If the cabinets are fine, with unblemished veneer, and fully functioning bass/driver units i can still see a value of at least £500 or so for a late manufacture year; 1998 - 2002, even if you need to add a £600 cost for new tweets and X-overs to get them up to spec as good as new which would then cost £1100 in total, and which will present music more satisfying that many other speakers that would cost 10 times as much.

SBLs are very much a bargain and fantastic investment.

Debs

Hi Debs, How did you know your crossovers and tweeters needed replacing? I mean anyone who bought a pair of 80s Kans, LS3/5as or decent Harbeths etc. today, would surely not even consider changing them.

Chris

I love SBLs and for the money they are a great design. 500 quid gets you a hell of a lot of speaker, amazing construction quality.

But the fact is they are getting on for old to super old, 700 would have to be a pristine pair of speakers, perhaps the fabled piano black ones, yumyum.

I listened to a pair of PMC 24`s and kef reference 1`s , recently and I prefer SBL`S by a long way , that`s how good i think they are! Don`t be put off by the setting up of them, it isn`t rocket science at all, a hour will do it easily. I think positioning is crucial , solid wall close up is perfect.

Christopher_M posted:

Hi Debs, How did you know your crossovers and tweeters needed replacing? I mean anyone who bought a pair of 80s Kans, LS3/5as or decent Harbeths etc. today, would surely not even consider changing them.

Chris

Much what I wanted to say myself, but in just one and 1/2 line..

M

Christopher_M posted:

Hi Debs, How did you know your crossovers and tweeters needed replacing? I mean anyone who bought a pair of 80s Kans, LS3/5as or decent Harbeths etc. today, would surely not even consider changing them.

Chris

Chris, 

that's a good question. I have a 1989 pair of Mordaunt-Short 100golds that still function really fine, and they've never had any servicing, mind you they haven't been used every year since then.

But for whatever reason SBL tweeters can degrade with use over time, mine started making harsh distorted echo type noises, very unpleasant. But the word from the wise is that when the tweets malfunction they can produce all kinds of odd noises and make music listening unsatisfactory, replacement has always sorted the problem. Maybe it's active use that wears them more intensely?, i dunno how my SBLs were used before i owned them.

Meanwhile the x-overs can deteriorate the same as any other circuit board electronics, old SBL x-overs can produce a steely dry sound that subtracts from the natural sound quality.

Debs

Thanks Debs.

C.

Mine are great. I wouldn't even sell them for £800. I paid about that for then around a year ago but they are immaculate. Sound and look gorgeous. I'd get them if they're in good nick and fully functional!

I bought a pair 10 years plus ago from a private seller about 50 miles away. I hadn't realised the complexity'of the seals when I agreed to pick them up ( he didn't have the boxes !). Oh what fun that was driving back on a filthy dirty night - the seats pushed as far forward as they could possibly go so that they could stand upright in the rear footwells , and my son lying prone on the rear seat - under fear of death that they weren't to move !!

They sounded wonderful and after 9 months I replaced the seals for an even better sound. Problem was I then heard their big brothers ( DBL's) and I'm afraid that was a temptation that I couldn't resist. 

The transporting of SBL's I hasten to add - is peanuts compared with moving 88KGs of DBL - but thats another story !

Barry

Assuming everything is optimal with the SBLs, is it mandatory to have a solid-core wall to place them against?

I would add to the above comments that it's worth checking that they'll be packed in the original boxes with the polystyrene surrounds. The mid/bass unit will need to be prised off the lower enclosure for packing and you will probably need new gaskets and aluminium pads. Replacing the aluminium pads may be challenging - you may need a two-part (hard) wood filler and a fierce staple gun. And then you will you be able to look forward to applying the silicone sealant.

This is all part of the fun of the SBL. But done properly, with care, they can be superb.

joerand posted:

Assuming everything is optimal with the SBLs, is it mandatory to have a solid-core wall to place them against?

IME i've found SBLs to be a fairly versatile boundary speaker, and although it's very well documented they perform best against a solid brick or stone wall, they can still sound excellent against lesser solid wall; within reason. My pair sound fantastic against a plaster-boarded breeze-block wall, however i've found thick wallpaper is needed to help with the room acoustics and damping. Luckily to one side is a brick chimney breast which maybe helping out too.

I've used SBLs against a plaster-board and stud wall to good effect too, however the flimsiness of this type of wall accumulates vibration from the boundary speaker bass, which becomes more obvious and unwanted with more powerful amps, so it's essential to position a wall-shelf & turntable on different wall and as far away as possible! But although there are compromises it's still possible to achieve an acceptable sound that doesn't digress from musical enjoyment.

I've only experienced SBLs on a concrete floored room, so can only guess the compromises may be more tricky on a wood floor & flimsy walled room.

Debs