PMC speaker comparison

That's some range of speakers you've listed there. I'm not sure if you'll get anything meaningful back.

FWIW I run the 20.26's and think they are great at the price point.

I've heard the MB2's in a friends non Naim system (Linn Streamer, Bryston amplification). They sounded much better than the 26's but then they should at roughly 3 times the cost.

I haven't heard any of the others.

IanG posted:

That's some range of speakers you've listed there. I'm not sure if you'll get anything meaningful back.

 

Yes, top of the 'consumer' range and bottom of the 'pro'. Some people undoubtedly will have compared two or possibly three at each of those two levels, and I'm sure some people will have compared a consumer with a pro. 

I think something like the twotwo.6 would be in interesting proposition as well. 

Recently I returned Twenty 26s as thier bottom end was just to much for my 4m x 4.3m room with suspended timber floors. They sounded incredible, very special mids, and I tried everything to keep them but alas it didnt work out.

That's quite a spread of speakers you have selected there.

I listened to Ovator S400, PMC PB1i and Fact 8 on the end of a CD555, 282/SC/300 system all mounted on 2 racks of Fraim at a well known Suffolk Naim dealer.

The Fact 8 speakers had an excellent sense of rhythm & timing and appearance.

In every other musical respect, they were comprehensively outclassed by the PB1i on that day in that room on the end of that system.  The PB1i sounded so much more insightful, detailed, musical and plain natural.  The character of the Fact 8 has been obviously skewed to sound "fast", "lively" & "attention grabbing" and it works well until you put them up against a better speaker, at which point the artifice becomes obvious.  On the other hand, the PB1i sounded like a (very) good speaker should sound.

The Fact 12 seems very similar to the Fact 8; most of its name and all of its appearance look the same. 
Then you listen to it.  
Oh, it's a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
It's a low impedance, power hungry and inefficient beast, needing a power station to drive it.  My serviced NAP135s managed to drive it, just. The NAP300 (non-DR) that we also tried failed.  This using an NDS/555PSDR source and a 252/SCDR pre-amp on 2 stacks of Fraim.  
The Fact 12 goes very, very deep and will induce room boom unless you are very careful indeed.
On the other hand, a friend and fellow forum member has a pair on the end of a 555/552DR/500 & full loom of Super Lumina cables and the Fact 12s sounded absolutely wonderful.  Lovely.

PMC 20.26 - heard them twice at a Naim & PMC dealer on the end of Naim classic electronics.  More like a modern PB1i.  Not at all like a Fact 8.

I have heard the MB2i on the end of a big Bryston monoblock system and they sounded ruthlessly capable & revealing.  At least as good as the Fact 12, which is as it should be.  However, we could not live with the brutal, imposing aesthetics of the MB2i.  Equally, they may be a bit clinical and hard to love - hard to judge given the unfamiliar electronics.  On the other hand, Touraj of Vertere fame (and formerly Roksan) rates the MB2i as awesomely good - one of the very best.

IB1 and IB2 - I cannot comment on these, having never heard them. 

There is a lot to enjoy and learn by trying them yourself, rather than placing too much weight on other people's (especially my!) impressions though, so enjoy the ride.

I hope this helps, if only a bit.

Best regards, FT

Mayor West posted:

I think something like the twotwo.6 would be in interesting proposition as well. 

Interesting addition, though rather different as they have somewhat less bass extension due to the shorter transmission lines, and with part of the cost due to the active biamping rather than solely on the speakers. But not unvalid for any info if anyone has compared.

what about pmc's new baby,IB1S-AIII - got that nice mid driver...

Thanks Ian, looking forward to Saturday! 

Best Peter

Welcome back from your sabbatical Peter!

Yes, very pleased to see you back, Peter.  

Mike 

I like the PMC Fact sound more so than the 20 series sound.  The 20.26 is best of the 20 series IMO as it uses a domed mid-range. Won't work in my room though due to their size and power.

The OP should consider the ATC range, as they too have amazing mid range domed drivers and at reasonable prices - SCM40 for example. 

It's a case of which flavour of candy you prefer . It all good.

Jude

My interest in PMCs is because of everything I've heard to date I find transmission line bass the best, managing full extension yet capable of being well controlled and fast. I know and like the sound of the ATC dome mid, and it would be good if the PMC is similar in character. I haven't heard the bigger ATCs, and may do so, but the purpose of this thread was to explore the upper ranges of domestic possible PMCs to decide what to try to hear, regardless of anything else I might include  (my remote location dictates a limited and focussed auditioning session as to visit even a single dealer is a significant expedition).

I don't know if you have ever heard or auditioned Proac speakers. But you really owe it to yourself if you haven't. The bottom ported Reference series will definitely question your preconceived notions about transmission line speakers as having the best bass.

Proac D18's with Naim gear sounds absolutely great, the bass power, impact, and extension will surprise you, might even change your mind about PMC speakers. Driven with at least the 250-2, personally, I wouldn't use any amp below that in the Naim range with these speakers. 

Maybe the Proac K6 is more in line with these PMCs? However I have no experience at all of Proacs. All comparative info welcome between Proacs and aforementioned PMCs!

Hi,  Had a pair of PROAC 125 for many years, recently bought some Tannoy precision 6.2LE,  lived with them for only few days,  too "bright" for my taste,  they did not like the Nait5i like the PROACs, sent them back. (will never buy speakers again without demo)   Naim and PROAC are a lovely   match,  looking forward to demo of  PROAC D18's now.

for a large room where the listener likes pmc type sound with deep bass depth then try pmc twenty 26, atc scm40, fact 12, and atc SCM50. Even better and if budget try active SCM40A and SCM50ASLT (suspect this is about as good as loudspeakers get). start at the top with SCM50ALT and work your way down 

Pete Thomas of pmc uses mb2 xbd se actives in his own house but they cost a cool £67k...

Hi Innocent Bystander,

Is there a certain price range that you are considering? A few years ago I started looking for a pair of £5-8k, well reviewed speakers to "complete" my Naim system, as it was at the time.  Somewhere in the System pics 2015 thread is a pictorial chain of what happened.  

The NAP135s stayed but the turntable and rest of the electronics changed in the intervening period...

... and it took 6 years of demos and trials before finding the right speakers for us.  Along the way, we listened to many, many different speakers in the £5-18k range, finding most to be either unhappy in our living room or simply not very musical.  We finally settled on a pair by ART, up in Troon, Scotland but there are a number of other excellent makes such as Wilson Audio, Sonus Faber, Magico, Neat, Kudos, Proac, ATC, PMC, Audiovector, B&W and since then the new Russell K red 150.

There appear to be so many to choose from.  However, once you start to introduce factors such as room size, your preferred position for the speaker in your room, height, physical size & appearance, the calibre of upstream electronics,  your preference on the spectrum from ruthlessly analytical to soft & romantic, budget etc., that field narrows down remarkably fast.

There are several superb speakers in the £10-15k range and a number in the £4.5-7k range, yet strangely not that many in between.

So if you help to bound this wide open field a little, then we may be able to provide more helpful feedback.

Alternatively, just audition a few and have fun along the way.  That's what we did!

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Innocent Bystander,

Is there a certain price range that you are considering? A few years ago I started looking for a pair of £5-8k, well reviewed speakers to "complete" my Naim system, as it was at the time.  Somewhere in the System pics 2015 thread is a pictorial chain of what happened.  

...

 

There are several superb speakers in the £10-15k range and a number in the £4.5-7k range, yet strangely not that many in between.

So if you help to bound this wide open field a little, then we may be able to provide more helpful feedback.

Alternatively, just audition a few and have fun along the way.  That's what we did!

Best regards, FT

I presently have a pair of IMF transmission lines (pro monitors), which I love very much, but they are about 45 years old, and although among the very best at their time I know that some more modern speakers can be better especially in the midrange. With a small legacy due soon I thought that if I can find anything that sounds better, without losing anything of the character I love (hence the focus on TL designs), then a change of speakers giving me something I'll never change would turn the legacy into a lasting memorial, a reminder every time I use them.

Actual budget not known yet - legacy not huge, probably between £5 and 10k, but as I will be considering s/h and ex-demo as well as new that opens quite a wide door. And if something costing a bit more really does sound exceptionally better to me then I might be persuaded to put more towards it.

Auditioning is a challenge, in cost as well as time, because of my location: to audition just a few options at a single dealer requires flying and probably car hire. To include more than one dealer would additionally require at least one overnight stay. If i want to take my present speakers for comparative purposes, which would be ideal given that home auditioning of several options is not feasible, then it's a ferry journey and minimum of two days. PMC is a primary range for me to consider due to the TL bass and their founder's reported original love of IMFs. The purpose of this thread was therefore to help me draw up a shortlist of PMCs to make sure I hear, given that dealers seem to have selected models not all - however the various suggestions for other speakers are certainly welcome, although again most useful would be any comparative evaluation against any of the PMCs in my original post.

Ah, that is really helpful background.  I can really understand why you like that combination of the huge MF P270 & full range IMF Pro monitors.  A lovely, classic, warm combination.  This also explains why care will be needed to replace them.

I suspect that the Fact 8s would be quite a departure for you.  The Fact 12s might need a power amp with even more of a vice like grip (I'm not talking pure power here).  By all means try them, but I would not bet on them working for you.

The true full range nature of your IMFs would lead me to discount most of today's smaller, fast, detailed, beautifully imaging floorstanders, as they just won't have that lovely deep bass of your IMFs. Their strengths lie elsewhere.

The speakers that immediately spring to mind are the PMC EB1i.  It was a proper 3 way, full range speaker and even has the domestic version of ATC's 75mm mid range driver (if I remember correctly).  This is not quite as good as the version found in PMC's professional range, but is still a joy.  You will find reviews for it if you search on the internet.  I think Jason Kennedy did one for Hifi+ that you can find on-line.

The EB1i went out of production a few (4-5?) years ago but will probably be very close to a bullseye for you if you can find a pair, perhaps at a PMC main dealer.

PMC replaced the EB1i with the PB1i - same tweeter & mid range drivers but with a pair of smaller bass drivers in lieu of the one big one.  This speaker needs a bit to drive it but your MF should be up to it.  The PB1i also went out of production circa 2 years ago(ish!) to make way for the 20.26.

However, its swansong was the PB1i Signature with a tweaked crossover.  Again, I'd call a keen PMC main dealer to see if you still find an ex-demo pair.

As you are heading down the PMC route, then it would be wrong to omit something like the IB1i - a professional monitor speaker that is in effect a supercharged EB1i.  You may even be tempted to get the active version, which would enable you to sell the P270 and simplify your installation even further.

Hope this helps, FT

Hi Foot Tapper

Thank you for a very considered and informative post. Interestingly I had spotted the EB1 in PMC's archive section, though hadn't included it in the comparison list because l'd only picked models That appear to be relatively readily available to audition.

I had meant to add this additional info earlier, but omitted to do so:

Listening room is approx 24' x 24' x 8', but with two adjacent corners cut off, and 6' stub walls slightly off-centre (it's been extended some time).

In place of  Musical Fidelity P270, amplification can be Bryston 4BSST, or I also have a trio of Musical Fidelity P170s so triamping with some combination would potentially be a possibility...

Source is Mac Mini / Audirvana / Gustard U12 / Hugo, currently direct into power amp. 

Listening room is approx 25' x 24' x 8', but with two adjacent corners cut off, and 6' stub walls slightly off-centre (it's been extended some time).

Hmmm, surely there must be more people out there who've compared two or more of these PMCs? (Twenty-26, Fact 12, PBi, IB1, IB2 and now adding EB1, and as an outlier MB2)

There have been some very useful responses, and I certainly have some good ideas, however this original question still stands...

Before I bought my new speakers I auditioned many brands.

For PMC I listened to 23, 24, 26, fact 8 and fact 12. Fact 12 was out of my budget though.

If it put them order good too best for me it is 24, 23 and then 26/fact 8.

26 has a different soundsignature then fact 8. But I preferred the presentation of the fact and the ability to slightly tune it, making it easier to place.

I hope this helps.

it may be worth reading the reviews on pmc website for fact 12s as some comparisions are made

Halloween Man posted:

it may be worth reading the reviews on pmc website for fact 12s as some comparisions are made

Hmm, all i can see is one person traded up from PB1 to Fact 12, saying preferred latter, but no detail. And ive looked under,all the current models but no comparisons