Super Lumina Speaker Cable. More HiFi Less Music?

The SL speaker cable is a transformation for the system, but maybe without a vigorous sound that we used to have.

Gents, there is only one way to solve this debate and that is to refer to our learned friend 911gt3r the founder of the original loom!!! I've heard he may come out of the retirement home!!!!!!!

Dusty ducks for cover.....again!

Ken: this was with full statement pre power. And 300. And 300dr. And...

everyone has their own set of priorities. I could completely understand thAt someone utterly loves the things that sl speaker cable undoubtably does. But it doesn't groove as well. And thus was two sets of sl speaker. 

Interesting thread and thanks to Steve for initiating it as there has been a few, in the minority, postings with a similar theme.

For me a strange thing happened after having an extended home loan of the SL cables In that whilst I was impressed with the loan and have saved up my pennies such that I could of bought them a couple of months ago I have not pulled the trigger.

I began to have my doubts as I did not feel my system was lacking nor did I pine for them on their return. It could be a coincidence but since then my system seems to have taken a leap forward. This leap forward may have been due to powering down my NAP after listening sessions to correct '500 bloat'. But the system to me is so good at present I do not want to upset it and so much so I am getting wary of changing anything including a DR upgrade.

What I want to avoid whether with SL cables, SL ICs or DRs is loosing that synergy even though in other areas they may well be far better. This is not to say they do not boogie but for me it is maybe like the old Superline v Urika debate where many seemed to have dumped the Superline and flocked to the Urika. I could see (hear) the attraction but for me the Superline is like being at a gig and playing with the band where as the Urika is like being in the recording studio. Both are great experiences, and products for that matter, with musicality but I like raw edge and excitement.

Maybe this is what Steve and others (even though a minority's on this Forum) are finding between SL and NACA5?

Regardless enjoy your system and Keep On Truckin'

Richard

Dustysox posted:

Gents, there is only one way to solve this debate and that is to refer to our learned friend 911gt3r the founder of the original loom!!!

Great idea - what turntable is he using now? 

Steve could supply his short but fully run-in SL cables to Forum member for home dems - that would be much appreciated I'm sure 

jon honeyball posted:

I have said this before. SL spanks NACA5 in every single area except musical timing in my experience. 

I totally agree Jon. I have found that I prefer the more emotional attachment to the music that I have with the NACA5 over the SL speaker cables. However, as some people seemed to have missed from my original post, I appreciate it works better with digital sources and the SL IC sounds excellent with my digital set up.  As most on here only use a digital source the improved resolution probably suits them. There is still a PRaT issue for me, though not as noticeable as with the vinyl source.

I personally think that Naim have gone against their own basic principle of the 'Naim' sound with these cables. IMO all bets are now off with what the Naim sound represents. For me it has always been about musicality and the only thing I won't accept in my system, with equipment from any company, is the loss of engagement in my listening. 

I am pleased that many above are happy with their experiences with the SL SCs and I wouldn't deter anyone from trying them. All I know is I'm enjoying the music all the more now they're not in the system.

ken c posted:

Hmmm... potentially, this thread could save me at least £8.4K !  but i am aware there are many variables in this great hobby of ours...

enjoy...

ken

 

Ken,

You are more than welcome to spend some time listening to the differences between the two cables in my system. I'm only twenty minutes away. You might derive some 'Benefit' from it. 

ATB

Steve

Steve J posted:

jon honeyball posted:

I 

 I have found that I prefer the more emotional attachment to the music that I have with the NACA5 over the SL speaker cables.

While I've been 100% happy with the improvements that the SL speaker cable, and the rest of the loom, have brought to my system I completely 'get' Steve's sentiment above.  Given the choice between qualities like resolution, timing, etc etc, I'd trade it all for 'emotional attachment'.  That's why we listen to music, isn't it?  Indeed, Steve's thoughts on the SL speaker cable brought back to me my experiences of trialling a 252 against my 282. Despite the former's technical superiority I stuck with the latter because on much of the music I like it gives me that emotional attachment.  

Mike 

Allo, new avatar! Have you just bought one of the last Defenders Steve?

To me, reading 'more hifi less music' when discussing hifi gear is like reading 'I kissed her but she tasted rubber' while discussing a silicone doll.

Steve - it's really interesting to read your comments about the emotional engagement, because that's what I look for - without that, listening to music sounds rather pointless. Since changing to my own SL full loom (only three wires required) this is precisely the area that has taken a leap forwards, and a massive one at that. I'd agree that the sound is slightly less hard hitting, but the sheer engagement and the way the music has left the speakers to inhabit the room more than compensate. 

I've read comments that maybe classical and jazz benefit most, and I decided to try some other stuff earlier to see if rock lost its impact. I was playing Space Truckin' from the Made in Japan 2014 remaster and initially there seemed a bit less bass than I was used to, until I realised I could feel the bass drum rather than hear it. If you know the record,mthe interplay between organ and drums on the long solo was totally engrossing. I then followed with White Stripes and Elvis Costello's live version of Watching the Detectives. I was hearing a clarity that wasn't there before, but the engagement was even greater. 

I wonder if there is something in my having a DR amp and a 'latest sound' 272 that makes it all work so well, but my speakers are certainly not 'new Naim'. It all seems to work incredibly well together. I'm listening to Vincent Segal's 'Musique de Nuit' right now, which is a live recording made in Africa, where you can hear trucks driving by an night creatures calling. It's just totally enthralling. 

I'm not exactly sure of the point of this ramble, other than to say to people listen for yourselves. To me, in my little system, there is more music, not less. 

Massimo Bertola posted:

To me, reading 'more hifi less music' when discussing hifi gear is like reading 'I kissed her but she tasted rubber' while discussing a silicone doll.

Hm, given that even Naim isn't the real thing isn't it more that they are saying my silicone doll tastes more like the real thing than yours?   

dayjay posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

To me, reading 'more hifi less music' when discussing hifi gear is like reading 'I kissed her but she tasted rubber' while discussing a silicone doll.

Hm, given that even Naim isn't the real thing isn't it more that they are saying my silicone doll tastes more like the real thing than yours?   

I can sense this thread taking a turn to the surreal, or the Padded Cell!

Massimo Bertola posted:

To me, reading 'more hifi less music' when discussing hifi gear is like reading 'I kissed her but she tasted rubber' while discussing a silicone doll.

I blame disappointment on over inflated expectations.

G

I always struggle with the discussion of hifi vs emotional engagement: to me, good music is emotionally engaging almost regardless of what it is played on, just gets better the more it sounds like the band/orchestra/singer being there. But then I never did get the PRaT thing, which in part i put down to my taste in music.

Yes, could be a bit of a let down if not careful, Graeme 

GraemeH posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

To me, reading 'more hifi less music' when discussing hifi gear is like reading 'I kissed her but she tasted rubber' while discussing a silicone doll.

I blame disappointment on over inflated expectations.

G

Ouch. 

Innocent Bystander posted:

I always struggle with the discussion of hifi vs emotional engagement: to me, good music is emotionally engaging almost regardless of what it is played on, just gets better the more it sounds like the band/orchestra/singer being there. But then I never did get the PRaT thing, which in part i put down to my taste in music.

Have a listen to Donna Summer, I Feel Love, real loud, I guarantee you will get it.

dayjay posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

I always struggle with the discussion of hifi vs emotional engagement: to me, good music is emotionally engaging almost regardless of what it is played on, just gets better the more it sounds like the band/orchestra/singer being there. But then I never did get the PRaT thing, which in part i put down to my taste in music.

Have a listen to Donna Summer, I Feel Love, real loud, I guarantee you will get it.

Ah, there you have it - not a song or style i like!

Surely everybody loves that song? The 12" is particularly fine. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Surely everybody loves that song? The 12" is particularly fine. 

So fine that I have just put it on (96KHZ FLAC) - Wonderful!

It's a bit late for Donna here, but try this.   

Well, there you have it - as i said, maybe that's why I dont recognise PRaT, and instead seek realism, making my demands on a system, especially speakers perhaps, somewhat different from many on this forum.

MDS posted:

Allo, new avatar! Have you just bought one of the last Defenders Steve?

Correct Mike. It's still at the factory and I'm taking delivery March 1st with a 16 plate.

Also, just yesterday I had news that my offer on the house we'll retire to in Devon has been accepted. Busy times ahead.

Steve

Innocent Bystander posted:

Well, there you have it - as i said, maybe that's why I dont recognise PRaT, and instead seek realism, making my demands on a system, especially speakers perhaps, somewhat different from many on this forum.

What an odd comment - very little music has no place for rhythm and timing - Feldman perhaps. Perhaps a little snobbery is coming into play? I love Bach, esoteric baroque vocal works, left field jazz, but Donna Summer? Her music is classic - to dismiss it with 'well, there we have it' with a seeming superior wave of the hand is rather offensive. It's like me saying 'prog is crap'. I cannot abide prog, but I know others like it, and I recognise the musicianship and craft involved, so would never dismiss it in a way you seem happy to do.