Sound & Vision - The Bristol Show 2016

Good day - absolutely heaving so difficult rationalise anything. 

Naim demo excellent but awful room and seats.    But the new Seat Super Iota (not its official name) with Rega P3 and Uniti - what an entertaining system - superb. 

However,  social more than anything else. 

Seeing friends in Bristol tomorrow pm so mulling over whether to go early and catch a couple of hours of the show or go cycling. News that it's heaving not encouraging me but keen to see the Muso QB and Pro-ject record cleaning machine in action..

Go cycling ...

Go to the show.

Masses to check out -I'd say go.  

Thanks, Need voting buttons! Upshot is  it's going to be a couple of hours cycling in the Cotswolds for me - I was getting the hint from my wife that was a better answer as she wants to catch up with a neighbour. I'm surprised Cabot circus didn't swing it for her (albeit dragging a toddler around). I go most years but I'll just follow the feedback here this time..

Had a very enjoyable 5 hours at the show on Friday. The Naim demonstration goes through a number (too many?) changes from 272 and old 250.2, through 250DR, adding an XPS on the 272 and then adding an SL interconnect. It then went on  with an NDS and a 552 comparing the the old 300, 300DR, 500, 500DR and SL interconnects  and speaker cables. This was all through the Focal Sopra N1 floor mounts. The midrange and the  treble of the Sopras was, I thought, wonderful. But this was seriously spoilt by the bass which was far too heavy and one note. Maybe this was the fault of the room acoustic or the perhaps the rather lugubrious  choice of  music.  As you might expect the 552/500DR system did the best job of taming the Sopra's bass.

After Doug introduced the show it was taken over my someone whose name I did not catch.  He claimed that the top system played would cost 50 or may be 60 thousand. I interrupted and said closer to £100k, This was flatly denied. I worked it out later from the current price list. It came to just over £72k not counting a  heap of fraims. I am aware that at this level if you ask the price of a system you can't afford it (which is true in my case), but Naim demonstrators  could brush up their addition (perhaps).

As far the progression of upgrades is concerned what struck me most was that the switch to the SL interconnect had about the same effect as the DR upgrade; not huge but definitely significant. As before in these kinds of demos, I thought the gap between the 300DR and the 500DR was much larger than the gap between the 250DR and the 300DR.  But I know this view is not widely shared in this Forum.

As for the rest of the show, there was as usual far too much to take in. As others have said the new Proac DB1s sounded great on XS range Naim equipment. Proac was one of the few loudspeaker manufacturers to use Naim. Unlike previous years when everyone seemed to use Naim, now Cyrus and Devialet were much in evidence. The Wilson Benesch room for the first time in my experience sounded good. This could be because they have at last put curtains over the large windows in the Conservatory. Or it could be because they were using £80k of CH Precision amplifiers. The Hegel room sounded great no matter which of their two amplifiers they used. They also kindly lent one of their amplifiers to their next door neighbours, Harbeth. The sound was very seductive with the Super HL5 plus.

Good to see many more women at the show but why is everyone so old? It looks as if audio will die soon because the punters who pay for all these wonderful objects, will be dead as well.  At the moment very few young people appear to be interested. Let's hope they become more interested before most of us die off..

David

dfw posted:

Had a very enjoyable 5 hours at the show on Friday. The Naim demonstration goes through a number (too many?) changes from 272 and old 250.2, through 250DR, adding an XPS on the 272 and then adding an SL interconnect. It then went on  with an NDS and a 552 comparing the the old 300, 300DR, 500, 500DR and SL interconnects  and speaker cables. This was all through the Focal Sopra N1 floor mounts. The midrange and the  treble of the Sopras was, I thought, wonderful. But this was seriously spoilt by the bass which was far too heavy and one note. Maybe this was the fault of the room acoustic or the perhaps the rather lugubrious  choice of  music.  As you might expect the 552/500DR system did the best job of taming the Sopra's bass.

After Doug introduced the show it was taken over my someone whose name I did not catch.  He claimed that the top system played would cost 50 or may be 60 thousand. I interrupted and said closer to £100k, This was flatly denied. I worked it out later from the current price list. It came to just over £72k not counting a  heap of fraims. I am aware that at this level if you ask the price of a system you can't afford it (which is true in my case), but Naim demonstrators  could brush up their addition (perhaps).

As far the progression of upgrades is concerned what struck me most was that the switch to the SL interconnect had about the same effect as the DR upgrade; not huge but definitely significant. As before in these kinds of demos, I thought the gap between the 300DR and the 500DR was much larger than the gap between the 250DR and the 300DR.  But I know this view is not widely shared in this Forum.

As for the rest of the show, there was as usual far too much to take in. As others have said the new Proac DB1s sounded great on XS range Naim equipment. Proac was one of the few loudspeaker manufacturers to use Naim. Unlike previous years when everyone seemed to use Naim, now Cyrus and Devialet were much in evidence. The Wilson Benesch room for the first time in my experience sounded good. This could be because they have at last put curtains over the large windows in the Conservatory. Or it could be because they were using £80k of CH Precision amplifiers. The Hegel room sounded great no matter which of their two amplifiers they used. They also kindly lent one of their amplifiers to their next door neighbours, Harbeth. The sound was very seductive with the Super HL5 plus.

Good to see many more women at the show but why is everyone so old? It looks as if audio will die soon because the punters who pay for all these wonderful objects, will be dead as well.  At the moment very few young people appear to be interested. Let's hope they become more interested before most of us die off..

David

 

 

 

 

 

I was sitting about 3 people along from you (we do not know each other) and heard you say £100k............

I do agree with your summation - I did think the Sopras required the 500 amp ( and improved quite a bit with the DR & SL)

I do wish the music choice could have more acoustic instruments, although ultimately the room was poor and one would require a proper demo to assess

I thought the Dynaudio room put on a good demo and on the Saturday listened to their floor standers (Countour I think) at £4750 - I thought they sounded good, as did 10 mins in the Harbeth room.

I would have loved to have stayed for the 4:00pm Chord cable demo, but unfortunately had to leave before it. I imagine most dealers cannot demo a complete range of cables.

This was my first visit to the Bristol Show - quite enjoyed it, very tiring !

Al

al9315 posted:

dfw posted:

Had a very enjoyable 5 hours at the show on Friday. The Naim demonstration goes through a number (too many?) changes from 272 and old 250.2, through 250DR, adding an XPS on the 272 and then adding an SL interconnect. It then went on  with an NDS and a 552 comparing the the old 300, 300DR, 500, 500DR and SL interconnects  and speaker cables. This was all through the Focal Sopra N1 floor mounts. The midrange and the  treble of the Sopras was, I thought, wonderful. But this was seriously spoilt by the bass which was far too heavy and one note. Maybe this was the fault of the room acoustic or the perhaps the rather lugubrious  choice of  music.  As you might expect the 552/500DR system did the best job of taming the Sopra's bass.

After Doug introduced the show it was taken over my someone whose name I did not catch.  He claimed that the top system played would cost 50 or may be 60 thousand. I interrupted and said closer to £100k, This was flatly denied. I worked it out later from the current price list. It came to just over £72k not counting a  heap of fraims. I am aware that at this level if you ask the price of a system you can't afford it (which is true in my case), but Naim demonstrators  could brush up their addition (perhaps).

As far the progression of upgrades is concerned what struck me most was that the switch to the SL interconnect had about the same effect as the DR upgrade; not huge but definitely significant. As before in these kinds of demos, I thought the gap between the 300DR and the 500DR was much larger than the gap between the 250DR and the 300DR.  But I know this view is not widely shared in this Forum.

As for the rest of the show, there was as usual far too much to take in. As others have said the new Proac DB1s sounded great on XS range Naim equipment. Proac was one of the few loudspeaker manufacturers to use Naim. Unlike previous years when everyone seemed to use Naim, now Cyrus and Devialet were much in evidence. The Wilson Benesch room for the first time in my experience sounded good. This could be because they have at last put curtains over the large windows in the Conservatory. Or it could be because they were using £80k of CH Precision amplifiers. The Hegel room sounded great no matter which of their two amplifiers they used. They also kindly lent one of their amplifiers to their next door neighbours, Harbeth. The sound was very seductive with the Super HL5 plus.

Good to see many more women at the show but why is everyone so old? It looks as if audio will die soon because the punters who pay for all these wonderful objects, will be dead as well.  At the moment very few young people appear to be interested. Let's hope they become more interested before most of us die off..

David

 

 

 

 

 

I was sitting about 3 people along from you (we do not know each other) and heard you say £100k............

I do agree with your summation - I did think the Sopras required the 500 amp ( and improved quite a bit with the DR & SL)

I do wish the music choice could have more acoustic instruments, although ultimately the room was poor and one would require a proper demo to assess

I thought the Dynaudio room put on a good demo and on the Saturday listened to their floor standers (Countour I think) at £4750 - I thought they sounded good, as did 10 mins in the Harbeth room.

I would have loved to have stayed for the 4:00pm Chord cable demo, but unfortunately had to leave before it. I imagine most dealers cannot demo a complete range of cables.

This was my first visit to the Bristol Show - quite enjoyed it, very tiring !

Al

Of course, if either of you had had your wits about you, you'd have offered them £60k there and then and you'd now be helping them dismantle your new system ready for delivery to your house!

Regards,

CB

Damn - and there was a 15% offer for purchases at the show !?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Good day - absolutely heaving so difficult rationalise anything. 

But the new Seat Super Iota - superb. 

However,  social more than anything else. 

Is this the Ibiza replacement?

dfw posted:

 I thought the gap between the 300DR and the 500DR was much larger than the gap between the 250DR and the 300DR.  But I know this view is not widely shared in this Forum.

Good to see many more women at the show but why is everyone so old? It looks as if audio will die soon because the punters who pay for all these wonderful objects, will be dead as well.  At the moment very few young people appear to be interested. Let's hope they become more interested before most of us die off..

David

 

Hi David,

I was at the first Friday demo and would agree with your comments, except I liked the bass and, to be fair, the echoey room was not ideal.

Agreed, there was a bigger gap between 300dr and 500dr than 300dr and 250dr, but that's hardly surprising given that the 500dr was being fed by an NDS and 552, the other two by a 272.

I also agree about the decrepit punters, but was (as usual) accompanied by my son (now 21) so am doing my bit to replenish the customer base!

Keith

So is the 250DR the Naim amp sweet spot?

Great day, but i had a tough time getting in. Don't remember it being like this before! 

And no I've not had my belly DR'd either before anyone mentions it!!!

dfw posted:

Had a very enjoyable 5 hours at the show on Friday. The Naim demonstration goes through a number (too many?) changes from 272 and old 250.2, through 250DR, adding an XPS on the 272 and then adding an SL interconnect. It then went on  with an NDS and a 552 comparing the the old 300, 300DR, 500, 500DR and SL interconnects  and speaker cables. This was all through the Focal Sopra N1 floor mounts. The midrange and the  treble of the Sopras was, I thought, wonderful. But this was seriously spoilt by the bass which was far too heavy and one note. Maybe this was the fault of the room acoustic or the perhaps the rather lugubrious  choice of  music.  As you might expect the 552/500DR system did the best job of taming the Sopra's bass.

After Doug introduced the show it was taken over my someone whose name I did not catch.  He claimed that the top system played would cost 50 or may be 60 thousand. I interrupted and said closer to £100k, This was flatly denied. I worked it out later from the current price list. It came to just over £72k not counting a  heap of fraims. I am aware that at this level if you ask the price of a system you can't afford it (which is true in my case), but Naim demonstrators  could brush up their addition (perhaps).

As far the progression of upgrades is concerned what struck me most was that the switch to the SL interconnect had about the same effect as the DR upgrade; not huge but definitely significant. As before in these kinds of demos, I thought the gap between the 300DR and the 500DR was much larger than the gap between the 250DR and the 300DR.  But I know this view is not widely shared in this Forum.

As for the rest of the show, there was as usual far too much to take in. As others have said the new Proac DB1s sounded great on XS range Naim equipment. Proac was one of the few loudspeaker manufacturers to use Naim. Unlike previous years when everyone seemed to use Naim, now Cyrus and Devialet were much in evidence. The Wilson Benesch room for the first time in my experience sounded good. This could be because they have at last put curtains over the large windows in the Conservatory. Or it could be because they were using £80k of CH Precision amplifiers. The Hegel room sounded great no matter which of their two amplifiers they used. They also kindly lent one of their amplifiers to their next door neighbours, Harbeth. The sound was very seductive with the Super HL5 plus.

Good to see many more women at the show but why is everyone so old? It looks as if audio will die soon because the punters who pay for all these wonderful objects, will be dead as well.  At the moment very few young people appear to be interested. Let's hope they become more interested before most of us die off..

David

 

 

 

 

 

Hope Naim don't mind me posting this pic. It was the best room dem of the show well done to the Naim team. 

Had another great day at the show. I totally agree that the Naim demo was streets ahead of anyone else. For me the sweet spot was without doubt the 300dr. Just a phenomenal sound. The 500 for me was too much money for too little gain over the 300. Heard the SL loom too. Not for me but most there seemed to like what it did 

Agree with you finkfan, excellent naim demo, certainly underwhelmed by the 500 series, but 300 superb....

Hi David I think I spoke to you as the demo concluded, do you have a 202 and 200?

i was the youngish guy that sat in front of you and we talked about monitor audio speakers and how they are ruining my enjoyment of naim at the moment

My take on the demo is very simple Naim want to sell DR upgrades and DR power supplies and the difference between models for me is maybe a 5-10% improvement so room acoustics come much more into play so was not ideal. 

I don't think I will be upgrading and spending thousands to hear only a slight difference I don't think for me it's worth it others I know don't agree and that's why they have systems that cost what a small house costs. I think once I've changed my speakers and maybe demoed a hicap I will stop there as so far I'm at 4k with a Nac 202, napsc, Nap 200, NDX and naim speaker cables all bought second hand to keep costs down - now just got to get rid of the MA RS8's 

Anyway it was good to chat 

Mark

And in black....out with the Old and in with the new if it's true about Ovators.

Still love mine.

Congratulations Dustysocks, but isn't it time the Xmas decorations came down?

Went on Friday this year which was a first.  More crowded than I was expecting.

I was astonished to read what you (David) said about Wilson-Benesch and women.  I was absolutely shocked by how bad  the W-B room sounded.  Checked with my friend to make sure I wasn't imagining it but he felt the same - never heard that room sounding so bad.  Maybe they fixed it later?  Also remarked that there seemed to be even fewer women there than usual.  Completely agree about the age profile though - sad to see.

I thought the Naim demo was pretty good except for the 500 series system at the end.  Actually no idea whether that was any good because of the extraordinary choice of music!!!

Best sound in the show (as at the Windsor show) was in the TAD room for me.  One of the best sounds I've EVER heard at a show regardless of price - and I've heard some pretty obscenely priced systems!

Barry

Hi guys,

Couldn't make it to Bristol this year.

But i'm surprised to learn that the NDS wasn't demonstrated with the NAC252/2 & NAP250/2 DR or NAP300 DR. Only with the NAP500 DR.

And, having heard how good the Sopra No. 2 can sound at the end of Naim equipment, only with the Sopra No. 1 standmount speakers too.

Being a big fan of the Spendor D7, i'd be interested to know the thoughts of anybody who got the opportunity to hear the UK debut of Spendor's D9 &/or the SP200?

Regards.

Bobby.

Hi Bobby

I too am a big fan of the Spendor D7 but the demo of the D9 was, alas, a little underwhelming.  I couldn't help thinking that the Cyrus electronics being used to drive them may not have been a good match.  The sound just felt a little undernourished.  The A6's in the other room, also driven by Cyrus electronics, sounded splendid.  Indeed notably better than the D9 system.

Barry

I was at the Friday HiFi show in Bristol and went to the Naim demo. Was underwhelmed by the difference between the 250 and 250 DR, but adding  the XPS certainly made a difference. Can't really remember much about the difference between 300 and 300 DR, but the addition of the Focal Soprano 2s was excellent. As for the 500 DR, I was really astonished at the difference the Super Lumina cables made. For whatever reason, the sound seemed properly integrated, balanced and completely seamless, even if the music was not to all tastes. And I am a sceptic of cables.