What's next with Naim?

I think this is a good idea. 'If' the electronics could be modularised without too much interference with sound quality it may be possible for Naim to offer an upgrade service that would tap into the second hand market but with direct benefit to Naim.

For example a NAC282 might be converted to a NAC252 with the internals of the NAC 282 then sold to upgrade a NAC202.  It would not be sold as new but a premium could be applied if the electronics were checked (and if necessary) repaired by Naim.

By introducing modularity it may encourage a more rapid upgrade cycle and keep the costs down for the end user.

I certainly would want my DAC and NAC integrated.. this is one area that decoupling is paramount for me...but I think the idea of NAC driving active speakers directly is interesting.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I certainly would want my DAC and NAC integrated.. this is one area that decoupling is paramount for me...but I think the idea of NAC driving active speakers directly is interesting.

 

'Wouldn't' surely?.

G

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I certainly would want my DAC and NAC integrated.. this is one area that decoupling is paramount for me...but I think the idea of NAC driving active speakers directly is interesting.

 

I assume you mean "wouldn't" want the DAC and NAC integrated...

nigelb posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'd like to see speakers with active amplification built in, and able to go against the wall. It would be much cheaper than having to buy the amps separately as there is no need for all the expensive casing.

In the latest edition of hi-if+, they are testing a 272 with active ATC SCM40A speakers (active as in amps in the speakers), and apparently damn fine this truly 3-box (that's 3 including speakers for this box count watchers) system sounds.

Now thats a system I would like...  The slight issue is Naim would have to get behind balanced output on their pre-amps ideally for longer speaker cabling.

I'm actually surprised more speaker manufacturers don't offer active options.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I certainly would want my DAC and NAC integrated.. this is one area that decoupling is paramount for me...but I think the idea of NAC driving active speakers directly is interesting.

 

Considering you already own (by looking at yer profile), a CDX2 with a DAC, a NDX with a DAC and an external DAC, adding a pre with a DAC would, of course, be crazy.

...which demonstrates the point I was making about component overlap in Naim range.
When a user that has spent considerable time figuring it out, can potentially own 4 DACs!?!?!

A high end CDTransport, a high end Media Reader (Renderer), coupled with modular amplification and a single external super PSU powering everything would instead be mighty cool, a lot less boxes and no overlaps.

Hmack posted:

 

As a suggestion for new products in the range - what about a high-end integrated dual mono amplifier to rival those from the likes of Vitus, Gryphon, MBL or Lindemann. High-end Naim Audio quality without the need for lots of boxes. Now this might appeal to me in the future, and I suspect also to an awful lot of people out there. It might be 'pretty' expensive, but not up there with the likes of Statement and Bentley, and after all we now have the Muso and Muso QB to balance out the other end.   

 

Good post Hmack and an alternative take is always healthy.  However, I am minded that we are still challenging the business strategy of arguably the most successful specialist hi-fi manufacturer perhaps in the world.  Why then should they seek to emulate/rival Vitus or gryphon?

Looking forward with the Naim "digital" lineup, (and without second guessing because perhaps this has been tried and failed) it would be interesting to see a basic streamer (perhaps half sized case) which outputs via SPDIF (for universal appeal) and via a (maybe optical) "Naim-link".

This could then feed a series of Naim DACs ... XS, DX, DS, Reference and Statement levels - each DAC would then have the option of PSU to upgrade it.

A separate half-sized transport could also be offered to link in the same way.

Just a thought... but I also trust that Naim are doing what they feel sounds best even if it doesn't suit everyone!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 "However, I am minded that we are still challenging the business strategy of arguably the most successful specialist hi-fi manufacturer perhaps in the world. Why then should they seek to emulate/rival Vitus or gryphon?"

Hi Strat (probably my favourite guitar as well),

I certainly wouldn't dare to do so - just a suggestion on my part. I would though, ask on what basis you would define Naim Audio as arguably the most successful specialist hi-fi manufacturer in the World. Are we talking about longevity, turnover, profit, innovation or quality of the product, or a combination of all of these? Naim are certainly a top class manufacturer, and possibly (with only one serious contender) the best of British, but there are many others out there who could lay claim to the mantle of 'most successful specialist hi-fi manufacturer'.

My own reference to Vitus and Gryphon in particular, but also to MBL and to a lesser extend (they are a smaller company) Lindemann was purely and simply in terms of audio sound quality. I consider Vitus and Gryphon to be at the top of the tree in respect of hi-fi sound quality (albeit at a very high cost), and all 4 of the manufacturers I mention have high end integrated amplifiers that are significantly better (in my opinion), but also much more expensive than those currently offered by Naim.

Naim's 'Statement' range may have brought them into the elevated company of Vitus, Gryphon and MBL, I just don't know.  I certainly will never be fortunate enough to be in a position of auditioning and choosing between them. I have however been in a position of considering high end integrated amplifiers from Gryphon and Vitus before choosing my current amplification. If Naim had had an integrated amplifier in this sort of price range, I might just have placed it on my shortlist.

I readily admit that high end integrated amps may go a bit against the grain for Naim, and that there also may not really be any sort of economic benefit from going down this route. I suspect that my suggestion is very unlikely to see the light of day.     

Hmack - there's no absolute judgements here.   True Naim aren't the very highest of the high end but as you say Statement somewhat changes things but for that reason I chose specialist as my descriptor.  And as I say arguably and perhaps.   But hey it's all good!

HI Strat,

Similarly, I wouldn't deny your assertion of Naim's position in the Hi-Fi hierarchy. You are right - there can be no absolute judgements here. 

Actually, I may well be purchasing a 2nd bit of Naim kit in the near future. Having been impressed by the Mu-so recently, I will be arranging a demo of the Muso-QB when it comes out, and if it sounds anything like as good as its larger sibling, then a place in my kitchen beckons.

I don't Know about you guys but personally I'd love to see Naim do a modern albeit retro styled rendition of their classic range. Nobody cares for modern design these days, people want retro chique (I can't spell that) and classic designs from the past. Or shall we say at least that retro design has really seen a surge in popularity? I don't know but I certainly love older designs opposed to modern bland styling.  Lots of other manufacturers have discovered great success with this method. Look at Fuji and their new range of cameras. Not to mention Leica. Classic design never ages. A modern retro chrome bumper range would be epic. Classic styling with modern function. Or maybe some cool headphones? Looking at b&w's new wireless headphones they just look cheap and tacky and I can see no way how their design cancels noise as they simply sit 'on' the ear rather than over them. My 2p's worth. 

It's chic.

Hmack posted:

Naim are certainly a top class manufacturer, and possibly (with only one serious contender) the best of British,

I can't think who you are thinking might be a contender again Naim for "Best of British"... Quad are really Chineese these days!  :-)

Best of British - yes - certainly - Naim sets very high standards and not just on manufacturing but in customer support as well and thats what will keep the flame burning.

Soundwise - its a question of personal preference - on the Naim forum - many folks will obviously be Naim fans ( and rightly so ) but i hear of a British brand called Sonneteer - who i am told by my friends in UK - have a very very good sounding amplifier as well - The Alabaster - and typically its engineered and Made in Britain and built like a tank.

 Lewis wrote;

"I don't Know about you guys but personally I'd love to see Naim do a modern albeit retro styled rendition of their classic range. Nobody cares for modern design these days, people want retro chique (I can't spell that) and classic designs from the past. Or shall we say at least that retro design has really seen a surge in popularity? I don't know but I certainly love older designs opposed to modern bland styling. Lots of other manufacturers have discovered great success with this method. Look at Fuji and their new range of cameras. Not to mention Leica. Classic design never ages. A modern retro chrome bumper range would be epic. Classic styling with modern function. Or maybe some cool headphones? Looking at b&w's new wireless headphones they just look cheap and tacky and I can see no way how their design cancels noise as they simply sit 'on' the ear rather than over them. My 2p's worth."

OK, I like chic, and I like retro-cool. I like the look and feel of old cars more than new cars. Our furniture and interior design must be to our own individual tastes. But what I want from my Hifi (if I am allowed to call it that) is to sound amazing. If it looks good too, then fine, but audio gear's (couldn't bring myself to call it Hifi again) main function is to provide an engaging musical experience of the highest order. I don't really care if it looks like a bag of spanners, but it must move me when I decide to listen to my favourite artists. Having said that, it is nice if it is domestically friendly but it ain't essential in my world. I realise that I am the 'new fashion audio lifestyle' marketing department's worst nightmare. A sad old git who only cares about what an audio system sounds like. Heresy!

Look, I don't want to take this argument to its extreme. I like the look of my Fraim of Naim, I don't love the look, but it has a certain coolness about it in a slightly agricultural sort of way. But when I switch it on (OK it is on all the time) and listen to a favourite album, I realise why I have sacrificed form for function. And the word 'function' does not get anywhere near to describing the emotional engagement to music these rather unassuming black boxes bring to my living room. We need a rather different vocabulary to describe that kind of attachment. Nothing to do with looks or domestic acceptability.

I would however be a bit worried if my favourite audio manufacturer became too 'esoteric' and alienated too many by looking too...well...err...'technical'...for want of a better word. Business success is all about the numbers and you need to sell enough to enable you to invest in what really matters and that is technological (audio) excellence so 'audiophiles' (hate that word but can't think of another right now) like me can continue to enjoy real (well almost) music.

Yours, a sad old audiophile, Chesham.

Just for the record for a few posts back.. Yes I wouldn't want my DAC and NAC integrated.. Thanks

YanC posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I certainly would want my DAC and NAC integrated.. this is one area that decoupling is paramount for me...but I think the idea of NAC driving active speakers directly is interesting.

 

Considering you already own (by looking at yer profile), a CDX2 with a DAC, a NDX with a DAC and an external DAC, adding a pre with a DAC would, of course, be crazy.

...which demonstrates the point I was making about component overlap in Naim range.
When a user that has spent considerable time figuring it out, can potentially own 4 DACs!?!?!

A high end CDTransport, a high end Media Reader (Renderer), coupled with modular amplification and a single external super PSU powering everything would instead be mighty cool, a lot less boxes and no overlaps.

Ok you might be  missing my point and arguably the point of some of the Naim portfolio...the DAC element of a digital source can be part of that source and bring specific qualities. The DAC stage in a CDX2 sounds different to a NDS and NDX for example. Each of these stages adds a particular unique quality to the source. So I choose my source to match my mood and music.. it's like taking a photograph with a warm up filter or polariser.

The CDX2 can sound great in its distinctive way. Quite different from an NDS or NDX..

therefore I think of these components as a whole and enjoy them as distinctive sources in their own right.. not just bits of homogenised Lego. So in the regard to DACs and my sources I have no overlap at all.. and my analogue pre allows me to select the specific source I want..to match music and mood.. It's really cool.

its all about enjoying music replay, not constructing a scientific test bench or buying the latest piece of lifestyle furniture.., in my mind at least.

Simon

Repeat, perhaps we're entering a new Paradigm!

Back in the day, it was the analog TT vs the digital CD. I for one, didn't fall for it, I let my LP 12 work its magic, and my Linn Genki do its thing.

Choice is a good thing, The Trinity of Hi-Fi, the analog TT, the digital CD, and the digital Dac, depending on Music preference and Mood!

Just Paraphrasing Simon, a few post ago!

Enjoy your Music!

The Armchair QB!

mpw posted:

Best of British - yes - certainly - Naim sets very high standards and not just on manufacturing but in customer support as well and thats what will keep the flame burning.

Soundwise - its a question of personal preference - on the Naim forum - many folks will obviously be Naim fans ( and rightly so ) but i hear of a British brand called Sonneteer - who i am told by my friends in UK - have a very very good sounding amplifier as well - The Alabaster - and typically its engineered and Made in Britain and built like a tank.

 

Nice sounding amp indeed but like Sugden, Croft, etc, has no remote, no headphone output and runs quite hot.

On the other end of the scale you have brands like Parasound and Hegel that are relatively affordable, loaded with power, features and very good headphone amps but may not have the style and musical involvement of Naim.

me prefers style and musical involvement over features and that includes not having a remote.

If i wanted a headphone output - i would have settled for headfonia and not a nice proper stereo amp.

Thats why i quite like the value proposition of the Nait 5i and the Alabaster.

Indeed as REL ( another British brand ) website used to say - Do 1 thing but do it well.

regards

mpw posted:

me prefers style and musical involvement over features and that includes not having a remote.

If i wanted a headphone output - i would have settled for headfonia and not a nice proper stereo amp.

Thats why i quite like the value proposition of the Nait 5i and the Alabaster.

Indeed as REL ( another British brand ) website used to say - Do 1 thing but do it well.

regards

I suppose that's one way of seeing it.

On the other hand you can buy a 100k Porsche with kickass performance that also has power windows, air conditioning and a killer sound system or you can chose to suffocate in summer, reach over to crank up the window on the passenger side and have a cheap radio that gets drowned out by wind and road noise under the pretext of being a purist. I think 99.9% of potential buyers will chose the former.

which is why the balance 0.1% risk being called audiofools or audiophiles 

I think from a market perspective as times change - Naim will have a challenge to cater ( or to be seen to cater ) to the 0.1% without alienating them as well as making money from the balance 99.9%

Lewis posted:

Looking at b&w's new wireless headphones they just look cheap and tacky and I can see no way how their design cancels noise as they simply sit 'on' the ear rather than over them. My 2p's worth. 

B&W don't make a noise cancelling headphone. The reason they chose an on the ear design is that it's smaller, and easier to pack when on the move.