Congratulations to the Murrays

Two people have baby. Good for them!

Not sure abut rescuing British tennis. Not to blame Murray (or his rather formidable Mum) but do we have a cohort of British male players battling through as a next generation of potential Grand Slam winners? We have the world's most esteemed tournament, finances flowing in to the coffers etc but we don't appear to have structures/coaches or whatever to create a good flow of top players.

Murray is an interesting character from what we can glean. He appears to be a deeply emotional sort, far from the obsessional automaton of the more typical elite sportsman. I find watching him I veer from applauding his touch and vision, and yelling at his lapses and lack of mental control! Rarely dull, but I'd probably rather watch the grace of Federer, even at this stage of his career.

I wonder what Murray will do post-tennis? I don't quite seeing him cosying up in the commentary box with Henman et al-although a pairing with McEnroe might be sparky!

Bruce

Rescued British tennis?  You are joking? If anyone was to be given credit for rescuing British tennis, it would be Henman. A superb around player, so very nearly won Wimbledon, loved by everyone and a perfect gent. That's how British tennis was rescued, not by an arrogant, ignorant second-rate player, who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish.

Yes, he is second-rate.

count.d posted:

Rescued British tennis?  You are joking? If anyone was to be given credit for rescuing British tennis, it would be Henman. A superb around player, so very nearly won Wimbledon, loved by everyone and a perfect gent. That's how British tennis was rescued, not by an arrogant, ignorant second-rate player, who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish.

Yes, he is second-rate.

Shurely shome mishtake? 

Number two in world rankings.

Dave.

Well, he would obviously beat me, but that doesn't make him 1st rate in my opinion. 

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Two people have baby. Good for them!

...

Bruce

I agree. Good for them, but certainly not newsworthy. 

ATB from George

Fabulous and important news. Babies being born are so rare nowadays.

I know. I have two more rug rats, sorry, grandchildren, coming in the next few months. 

Count.D posted:

British tennis was rescued by Tim Henman......Murray is 2nd rate

To quote another well known tennis player - "You cannot be serious". Tim Henman was a decent enough player. However, Murray has won 2 Grand Slams, been beaten finalist in many other grand slams, and semi-finalist in countless others, and led Britain to a Davis Cup win. All this in an era containing the 3 best players of all time in Federer, Nadal and Djocovic.

2nd rate? Hardly!

The best ever British tennis player - definitely.

Just because the British invented the best games [apart from Chess] does not mean we need kick ourselves if foreigners manage to be be better than we are. We are inventors quite as much as practitioners.

We have given a lot of people something to do, even if it is not so very important that they do it well!

In another example, the Norwegians invented skying, but are rarely the best at this these days !

ATB from George

If anyone wants a decent discussion on the merits of a tennis player, without resorting to the usual pub-talk list of wins/losses, please do. 

I wasn't going to comment, but my first reaction to the op would be 'there's one born every minute'. Surely there's something else more newsworthy. 

As for rescuing British tennis, I think he'll leave it just as he found it. When I go down to the courts and chat to the coaches, all the kids talk about Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. There was an assumption that a Murray Wimbledon win would send everyone down to the courts but it's made no difference. Tennis needs another Federer or Nadal for that to happen, British or not.

Yes, Henman was unlucky,  a bit like Andy Roddick.  Sampras followed by Federer at Wimbledon.  If I was to aspire to play like anyone other than Federer, Henman would be right at the top of the list. 

I can't help thinking about the relation of our best tennis stars to our best football stars.    Kids playing football hoping to be the next Beckham have got it easier if they have the talent because money's thrown at it by everyone.   Kids playing tennis hoping to be the next Murray/ Henman though are just up against monied snobs who want only the trust funded lucky few to pay for the membership, no wonder a genuine player from Britain has not been so prevalent.

k90tour2 posted:

Yes, Henman was unlucky,  a bit like Andy Roddick.  Sampras followed by Federer at Wimbledon.  If I was to aspire to play like anyone other than Federer, Henman would be right at the top of the list. 

So true. Henman was so close, rain suspended play, big server, bit of luck, there you go.

 As superbly gifted Sampras was, he was also a very intelligent player. He was so smart with his shots, he wouldn't allow the other player to play well. People who tended to think he was boring, didn't have a clue what they were watching.

Borg, McEnroe, Federer, Nadal, Sampras & Djokovic; all equally the best.

Yes, many congratulations to them both. Lets hope that it makes his tennis even better. It would be great to have him number 1 in the world.

I find the bitterness here utterly hilarious. Henman? You jest surely. Nice guy but not in the same class as Murray. Typical English nearly man. A great loser because he got so much practice at it. Take the Murray brothers out and British tennis is an embarrassing sea of failure just like it's been for decades and sadly as I suspect it will be again once they've both retired.

How different it would have been if Murray had been English.

Murray's British. When he wins. Scottish the rest of the time.

It's interesting that most English sports stars are generally referred to as British but when there is the odd star from Scotland they're considered Scottish. I suppose it's considered politically incorrect to be patriotic if you're English nowadays. Murray is a fine player but was considered a British 'choker' until he won the US Open.

In the first instance the op says that AM has rescued British tennis and now admits that that without the brothers British tennis would be embarrassing . Hardly rescued then. He's a great player, just don't like watching him . Not that bothered about Novak either. Richard Gasquet is great to watch, and he's not British.  Does that matter?  No. 

TomK posted:

I find the bitterness here utterly hilarious. Henman? You jest surely. Nice guy but not in the same class as Murray. Typical English nearly man. A great loser because he got so much practice at it. Take the Murray brothers out and British tennis is an embarrassing sea of failure just like it's been for decades and sadly as I suspect it will be again once they've both retired.

How different it would have been if Murray had been English.

 

 

Bitterness? Bitterness for what? Strange bloke. I don't see any bitterness and I don't even see how you come to that assumption. Murray is a very poor sport, bad idol and frequently shows he doesn't give a damn about the public. He's a born winner, which doesn't make him a tennis great.

Count.D posted:

"an arrogant, ignorant second-rate player, who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish.

Yes, he is second-rate."

and:

"He's a born winner"

A bit of a contradiction there - a 2nd rate born winner?

and:

"who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish".

There does seem to be a bit of "bitterness" there, although I don't know what drives it. I would also argue that the vocal support Andy Murray received during the recent Davis Cup, and the votes he received while winning the Sports Personality of the Year go a long way to countering your assertion. 

I also don't thing that the term 'Choker' can be levelled against either Murray or Henman. I certainly wouldn't apply the term to anyone losing to any of Sampras, Federer, Nadal or Djokovic in a Grand Slam final or semi final. Henman was a World Class player, Murray is even better, but just not as good as these 4 exceptional players. 

I do have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about totally unjustified criticism of Murray. Yes he is foul-mouthed at times (but not to the extent that you will hear at any football match, yes he is a bad loser on the court, but always polite and gracious towards his opponent at the end. He will readily admit to being beaten by the better man on the day.

I listened to an interview with one of the up and coming British players Naomi Broady  today, in which she commented that Andy Murray regularly texted youn British tennis players offering support and encouragement. Not the sort of thing an 'arrogant, ignorant 2nd rate player' who is not liked by anyone would be prone to do, at least not in my opinion.

You aren't by any chance one of those people who took offence to a casual joke made by Murray about the English football team, are you. It was a joke!

Lets put things into perspective.

Murray's consistently been ranked in the top three for a few years now, but never really been number one. In football terms that puts him in the class as your Ronaldo's and your Nyamar's (assuming Messi is number one).

Henman on the other hand is ONLY in the class of your Suarez's and your Aguaro's.

Can anybody think of a tennis player ranked low enough to be in the class of Tom Cleverly.

I have to say one thing.  At the moment he won the final Davis Cup match he was mobbed by the rest of the team but didn't celebrate for a moment until he had shaken the hands of all the Belgium team and wrestled himself free in order to do so.

But on the other hand, for example,  during the Aussie Open match against Raonic, he was on the receiving end of a 135mph+ serve going very wide and kicking up well out of reach.  Monster serve that Murray couldn't get his racquet anywhere near. But Murray went into his usual ranting and screaming at his box as if he and the tennis gods had let himself down. Kind of took it away from his opponent.

But for all that, he hasn't rescued British tennis and it wasn't the Royal birth that the papers and BBC would have you believe. I have no reason to believe that he is not a wonderful father and husband.