Congratulations to the Murrays

Hi Fatcat,

Actually, there are a lot of very good British tennis players out there. Just not quite good enough to be ranked in the top 50, but very good non-the-less. The problem in this country doesn't lie with the individuals who get to the top of our national rankings. They have done exceptionally well and are exceptionally good players, but just haven't made it up that final rung in the ladder. Rather it is to do with the fact that there aren't enough prospective players at grass roots level, nor enough well directed funding to help the best of those to progress in the game. The fault of the British Tennis Association? Possibly, but it's probably not quite as straightforward as that.

I was interested in your slightly derogatory (but obviously tongue-in-cheek) reference to Tom Cleverly. I played a lot of football up to around University level (a long time ago) and considered myself to be quite good, but I could only dream about being as good a player as Tom Cleverly. I did come across, and played with and against a small number of former professional footballers (from much lower leagues than that of TC) in various 5-a-side games when I was still young enough to play, and marvelled at just how much better they were than me.

They had nowhere near the ability of Tom Cleverly. Sometimes, we just don't appreciate just how good all players of that level actually are. Anyone who has played regularly for Man Utd & also occasionally for England is pretty damn good in my book.        

Hmack posted:

Count.D posted:

"an arrogant, ignorant second-rate player, who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish.

Yes, he is second-rate."

and:

"He's a born winner"

A bit of a contradiction there - a 2nd rate born winner?

and:

"who's not actually really loved by anyone, except the Scottish".

There does seem to be a bit of "bitterness" there, although I don't know what drives it. I would also argue that the vocal support Andy Murray received during the recent Davis Cup, and the votes he received while winning the Sports Personality of the Year go a long way to countering your assertion. 

Usual confusion.

A winner doesn't make a loved, great player.

Vocal support during the Davis Cup and winning Sports Personality of the Year, means he's 'loved'? Yeah, thanks. I now know where my opinion went wrong.  

Yup, I think winning sports personality of the year twice indicates he is "loved" by the British public. Certainly strong evidence. I look forwatd to seeing your evidence to the contrary.

Terry Wogan was loved, Bowie was loved, Henman was loved, Wiggo was loved Steve Redgrave was loved, etc, etc, etc .........Go and read the press about Murray and see the comments made by the average public. They can't stand the bloke & his mother. Neither can I. No bitterness & nothing to do with Scottish.

Count.D posted:

"They can't stand the bloke & his mother. Neither can I. No bitterness & nothing to do with Scottish".

Well now that's quite a statement. I think that you overstate your lack of bitterness (to paraphrase a famous saying).

OK, so you don't like Andy Murray (that bloke). I think that comes across quite succinctly in your posts. But now I am intrigued.

Just what has poor Judy Murray done to incur your wrath?

By the way, who is 'Wiggo'?

Bradley Wiggins. 

I can't stand the bloke, Murray that is.

He's an over-emotional, bad-tempered looser who doesn't appear to have much time for his public, even when he wins.

Not really a good ambassador for British sportsmanship.

This is an interesting point, because while I do not have a dislike for Murray, I really would love to meet Wiggo! Equally Frank Bruno, and some others. AP McCoy, who kept my cousin Richard Johnson from being Champion Jockey for so long ... I have met and glad to have done so, Lord Oaksey, another great jockey. 

I cannot muster any enthusiasm for Murray at all. I can be happy that he has had success, but so did Wiggo as far as I remember. 

Mostly sportsmen and women tend to be too self-enfatuated to be really interesting people in the broader sense. Murray conforms to this stereotype in my opinion.

ATB from George

HH,

I must admit to actually knowing that, but I thought it a little strange that Wiggins would be considered to be 'loved' by the great British public. Highly respected, yes, but loved?

By the way, your change of Avatar threw me a little.  

Don,

Do you apply the same standards to all of your sporting heroes? I can understand why you might not like 'the bloke's' outbursts on court, but I must take exception to some of what you say. He never comes across as a bad loser in post-match interviews, always being generous in praise of his winning opponent. In fact I do not recall a single post-match interview in which he could be described as a bad-tempered loser. Also, on the contrary, he always makes time for the public. After each of his matches he spends lots of time (much more than most other players) signing autographs. 

Can you also 'not stand the blokes mother', or are you neutral on that one?

Wow! It's quite amazing just how much vitriol has been stirred up by an innocuous post by the OP.  

Don Atkinson posted:

I can't stand the bloke, Murray that is.

He's an over-emotional, bad-tempered looser who doesn't appear to have much time for his public, even when he wins.

Not really a good ambassador for British sportsmanship.

Having set the fire that started this glorious load of bitterness bordering on racism I was happy to sit back and laugh at the oh so predictable little Englander reactions but I cannot let this go unanswered. That's just blatant nonsense. Loser? The best and most successful British tennis player of all time, world number two or three for most recent years, first British grand slam winner in decades? Loser? I think not. And you're really showing your bitterness and ignorance with the rest. He very obviously has a great deal of time for his public, spending more time on court signing autographs than most and in public never being anything less than polite and gracious. So he doesn't like losing. He's the first tennis player like that isn't he? Aye right.

He's the best British tennis player of all time and he's not a toff from the Home Counties. Get over it.

Don Atkinson posted:

I can't stand the bloke, Murray that is.

He's an over-emotional, bad-tempered looser who doesn't appear to have much time for his public, even when he wins.

Not really a good ambassador for British sportsmanship.

I have no particular opinion on Murray, but am always bemused when we have the expectation that someone good at sport will/should also display "sportsmanship" or otherwise be some sort of decent role model. 

In my younger years I tended to view sports as noble competitions and elite athletes as persons to be admired. I've come to the realization that professional sports today are simply a subset of the massive entertainment industry and that athletes represent a microcosm of society as a whole. A few have genuine admirable qualities, a few are reprehensible (even criminal), but most lie somewhere in between; hardworking, honest people making a living like any of us. Except that (as entertainers) athletes lives are often viewed under a media microscope. Comes with the profession.

About 350,000 humans are born each day on this planet, so the Murray daughter birth is of no importance to me. How society reflects on a person's death is a better indicator of their contribution to humanity.

If we in New Zealand had a tennis player as great as Murray, we would be truely blessed and appreciative. He is a great athlete and ambassador to the game. Les Anglais moan to much about their heroes methinks. Enjoy him whilst you have him.

Wel, well - plenty of love for the Murray brothers down Birmngham way today!