Naim NAP 300 or NAC 252

A pre-amp is always more important than an amp unless you have a crazy difficult load speaker to drive.

I bought my 300 from a member of this board who was using a Unitiqute as a front end.     I loved the 300 (gone in favor of a 500) and we love the Unitiqute 2b (now owned and operated by my son) into a pair of Blumenstein Thrashers and running iTunes/Audirvana Plus via UPnP off a MacBook.

Frankly, I think the UQ2b sounds so good, that I would be happy to live with that if I did not already have a room full of Naim boxes.   You will have to spend a lot of money to get better sound.  Buy the 300 if you must, but you should be able to stop there using theUQ2b as a source, quite happily, for a while.

Yes I absolutely adore the QnitiQute 2 BT. I was mesmerised by its performance. If this is what Naim gear sounds like then I'm sold. But for now the Unitiqute is running the second system. And I am more than happy with that setup. I'm looking actually to Naim my main system which currently consists of Macbook Audirvana plus into Chord Hugo. And the speakers that I have are the new Harbeth SHL5 plus. So amplification is missing which I'm looking to plug. 

I have now added the SUPERNAIT 2 to the mix as I have heard it will give a similar signature to the UNitiqute 2. 

As always your thoughts are much appreciated 

You don't say where you are located, or what potential you have for listening at a dealers, but I suggest you try to do that. The two main options you've mentioned - SN2 and 252/300 - cost £3,000 and £15,000 at new prices, which is a very big range. Either might suit, or the 282/Hicap/250DR, which sits neatly in the middle. 

The other thing to consider is access to the music: if you are streaming to the Qute, might a streaming main system make sense, rather than the Hugo? You could then share music between the two, synchronise multiroom and so on. 

Sorry for the confusion. The Supernait 2 has had rave reviews and I'm just wondering whether or not to just go Hugo to SN2 and add a hicap later. 

I would prefer to stay with the Hugo as a DAC from my MacBook as I have compared it to other streamers and it sounded far better. 

Now the NAP 300 or NAC 252 are at very reasonable prices. Probably less than half of their retail so that's why it is a rather difficult decision. 

To put it simply I do want the best performance. Therefore if for now the Hugo into the NAP 300 is better sounding than the Hugo into SN2 I guess I will opt for the power amp now and add the NAC and SUPERCAP after. 

I use a Chord Hugo into 252/SCDR/250.2. Sounds fabulous. I've always had Naim pre-amps so I was never really tempted to try the Hugo into a power amp. I think one or two forum members (possibly Simon-in-Suffolk) have tried their Hugo direct into a power amp just to see what it's like. I very much doubt whether anyone here would really recommend it at the level of equipment (NAP300) you're talking about. The general view here on the forum has tended to be, if you have to make a choice, to opt for a better pre-amp first rather than a better power amp.

HH is right - you probably ought to try and spend a bit of time with a dealer going through the Naim range. It will help focus your mind, and there are few better ways to while away an afternoon...

Khan - A SN2 is a very fine amp but it seems you are attracted by the idea of evenbually achieving a higher end solution in which case investing in a seperate NAC/NAP will give you more flexibility for upgrading.   Might the solution be keeping the Hugo as you suggest and buying the 252 with a SC and the best NAP you can get - don't know the Harbeths at all so can't comment whether a NAP100 would be sufficient but if not say a NAP 200 and then eventually upgrade to NAP300.  Alternatively I can confirm that the NAC282/HC/NAP 250DR is really excellent and I'm sure would work well with the  Hugo. 

After hearing a dem recently, I've decided to go for exact same combination as mentioned by The strat fender, if it's in your budget I would suggest going with the Dr version. The nap 250dr is definitely superior to nap 300 non Dr, which is one of  the questions I was pondering myself ...

"The nap 250dr is definitely superior to nap 300 non Dr, which is one of  the questions I was pondering myself ..."

interesting. Did you manage to audition them side by side? Im actually surprised by that. I thought the 250 DR would typically be an improvement on the 250.2 but still further behind an original 300.

So the general advice is to opt for the best pre amp solution I can afford and build from there. Thats exactly the direct advice that I needed.

And such quick a response so thank u all.

No, not demoed side by side, seems to be a mistake by many dealers, they get Dr version in and sell off non Dr versions as ex dem straight away...but have listened to both separately, I don't think anyone would disagree 

I would love to know more. How would you describe the differences. In which areas does the NAP 250 DR excel in comparison to the NAP 300 non DR?

Khan posted:

I would love to know more. How would you describe the differences. In which areas does the NAP 250 DR excel in comparison to the NAP 300 non DR?

 

It doesn't, that's just one persons opinion. Try to demo yourself if you can and then decide.

Not only one persons opinion, I have heard this from another forum member

The 250DR has better transistors (009) and better regulation than the older 300.

Khan posted:

 

To put it simply I do want the best performance.

You'll have to define best. Best on paper? Or best sound? If the latter, that is a highly subjective category. Just because a NAC or NAP has a higher number in front of it, doesn't make it better sounding for everyone. As you found out yourself your little Qute 2 sounds rather amazing. Unfortunately that amazement doesn't necessarily extrapolate out into the higher ranges Pound per Pound in equal measure. Hence there are people here who will prefer a Qute over a Supernait, a Nait XS over a 202/200 or a 282 over a 252. Same goes for all the NAPs. Ask three and you're likely to get two opinions. It seems you've set your eyes on a 252/300 without ever having listened to one nor knowing whether you may not prefer another combination more. It's your money but I would start your Naim journey by auditioning various options. A Naim dealer with pre loved gear seems to be your best option. Or more than one dealer, if required. Best take your time, good deals come up all the time in various places. 

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

Khan posted:

Sorry for the confusion. The Supernait 2 has had rave reviews and I'm just wondering whether or not to just go Hugo to SN2 and add a hicap later. 

I would prefer to stay with the Hugo as a DAC from my MacBook as I have compared it to other streamers and it sounded far better. 

Now the NAP 300 or NAC 252 are at very reasonable prices. Probably less than half of their retail so that's why it is a rather difficult decision. 

To put it simply I do want the best performance. Therefore if for now the Hugo into the NAP 300 is better sounding than the Hugo into SN2 I guess I will opt for the power amp now and add the NAC and SUPERCAP after. 

I went from UQ2 to UQ2/Nap100, to UQ2/Hugo/Nap100, to Mac/Audirvana/Hugo/Supernait 2 in the space of around twelve months.  UQ2 is a brilliant device and putting it through the Hugo into the NAP100 and SN2 gave it a new lease of life but the Mac/Audirvana walks all over it.  I found having the Hugo feeding a power amp sounded ok but it's impractical to use and I suspect it would be better through a proper pre amp.  Hugo into SN2 is just brilliant and can be further improved with a Hiicap, I will be staying where I am for some time I suspect as it just works.

I would suggest you go for the 252 it's a Marvel.

Bert Schurink posted:

I would suggest you go for the 252 it's a Marvel.

I cannot agree more.

Then go 300 when funds allow. 252/300 is a wonderful and so well balanced combo in particular for classical.  

Chag -

I have never heard a Chord Hugo so have no idea of what it is capable of. I say this upfront so the following opinion can be put in context.

I have always put the pre amp at the heart of my system and it is this item I have always upgraded first as I firmly believe it is the component that has the biggest influence on the ultimate SQ of a system (providing of course the source is up to the task). I have gone through the 202, 282 and 252 and if I knew back then what I know now, would have saved up and gone straight to a secondhand 252 and saved some cash along the way. Hindsight - a wonderful thing indeed.

There are some real secondhand bargains in the classic NAP range at the moment due to the new DR'd NAPs taking centre stage. So if it were ME (never having got to know Hugo), I would sell Hugo (I understand he is a nice chap and will hold his value and will easily find a new home) to fund the purchase of a secondhand 252 and Supercap (DR if affordable) first. If financially a NAP 300DR is then too much of a stretch, go for an interim secondhand NAP250.2 (there are plenty around at bargain prices right now) and in time when funds permit swap it out for a NAP300DR which will of course in time come onto the secondhand market also.

The only potential flaw in my suggestion is that I don't know what you plan to use as a source. Assuming you are using the digital output from the UQ2 into the Hugo, then selling the Hugo is going to be a problem unless the UQ2 has a decent line level output that could go into a 252. Even if this is possible I would suggest you will need a better source to do the 252 justice. Assuming you want to stay digital then I would say a NDX is a minimum requirement to get the best from the 252 (and eventually the 300DR), preferably a NDS. But of course it is now looking like big bucks. It is of course more doable if you plan ahead and do it in stages.

Good luck and have fun on your journey. Always try to demo each planned upgrade preferably in your emerging system at home.

If it don't sound fantastic hold on to your plastic!

Very much agree with NIGELB, possibly that is the golden rule, which long term,  would certainly save those frustrating expensive mistakes

nigelb posted:

II have always put the pre amp at the heart of my system and it is this item I have always upgraded first as I firmly believe it is the component that has the biggest influence on the ultimate SQ of a system (providing of course the source is up to the task).

When I intended to buy a NAC252 I ended up buying a Radikal and later an Aro and then Urika for my LP12 - as I felt the source (LP12 Lingo Cirkus Ekos2 Transfiguration Phoenix) need to be better first.

The improved source then sounded great through my 282 and allowed the preamp upgrade. With the less good source I preferred to keep the 282 as it masked the shortcomings better imho 

So although at first I thought that I was going to disagree with nigelb's heart of the system comment - I do actually agree - and provided the balance is not skewed.

Thanks for your thoughts guys. NigelB the Hugo is connected to my source which is a MacBook Pro running Audirvana plus. 

The UQ2 is in another system so that doesn't come into play. 

What my initial plan was to get a power amp now running from the chord Hugo then add pre amp later. But from your advice I'm thinking to purchase a NAC 252 first And add a nap later. I'll just have to live without music for some months I guess as I have no amplification at the moment. 

I would also just like to say I honestly appreciate that demo is important but I also feel it isn't always the best option. 

A residential room will always sound different and that plays a massive part in the sound. Also I'm not a trained listener.  Years of listening and to specific tracks has made me a reasonable critic as I can discern differences in equipment. However i personally believe reviewers have far more experience than I do and that they listen critically for a living therefore they are better equipped. They also work with better equipment most of the time so they have a better gauge of neutral or precise tonality too. I often just look out for people assessment on tonality and other Hifi adjectives to understand whether it will be something I may like.

Therefore I do believe that other people's opinions and reviews can help greatly in selecting gear. 

I have to agree with Nigel, with a 252 at the heart of the system you're setting yourself up with a quality of source that will stand you in good stead through a couple of NAP upgrades, arriving eventually at the 300, which partnered with the 252 is most definately a very good place to be (and where I was for quite a while until a 'pre-loved' 552 came along).

Spend your hard-earned on the best pre-amp you can afford has to be my strong advice to you 

Enjoy...

Roger