Super Lumina Speaker Cable. More Music?

Hi Dave,

I am glad that you are happy and enjoying the SL cables.

What cable did you have before?

Richard

Despite being exdem my speaker cables are continuing to improve. I have the full SL loom which brings a great synergy. SL brings a far more natural and engaging sound. Listening to The Archers now there is an incredible sense of realism in the voices and everyone is placed in an incredible soundstage, totally divorced from the speakers, in a way that A5 could never manage. And that's only with my little system; with a 552 etc I can only imagine. 

Richard,

I had Naca5. White, as colour seems to have become of interest recently. The Naca was part of my original Naim set up. Two plugs had become detached and down to stripped wire. Not sure if this was up to SL standards. If the SL ends up as good as the packaging, I will be satisfied. It also bends, unlike Naca. Useful too. I will think about adding the SL ICs one the speaker cable settles. Just need some new speakers now and I am done. 

Dave

Pleased it works for you Dave. 

Like the ‘Curate’s Egg’, I’ve found Super Lumina to be ‘good in parts’. I have a 500 series system, run actively into a pair of SL2s. I first tried the SL interconnect in place of my HiLine, and yes, it definitely added some rather nice things. Similarly with SL speaker leads; more detail, precision, super smooth top end, more air around the instruments and players… a definite move forward. Then onto the interconnect between 552 and Snaxo PS… this time, yes, a little more definition but nothing to shout from the rooftops about.

To complete the loom, I put in XLR leads between the 242 and the 500s… and this made a change I really wasn’t comfortable with. As another poster said in a different SL thread… ‘more hi-fi, less music.’ Knowing these things take time to settle in, I left things as they were for weeks, and I still listened nightly to the system, but I just didn’t look forward to listening as much as usual. There was a slight but uncomfortable ‘edge’ to the music, whatever type I played. I also found, with the XLR leads, the bass had become leaner… and since the SL2s aren’t the last word in bass (although absolutely amazing in everything else) I just wasn’t getting the total satisfaction I’d experienced previously.

Ultimately, I removed the XLR leads and am once again totally happy with my system again. There are, of course, so many factors at play here, but for me a complete Super Lumina loom hasn’t proved the ultimate panacea.

Mike Kent posted:

Like the ‘Curate’s Egg’, I’ve found Super Lumina to be ‘good in parts’. I have a 500 series system, run actively into a pair of SL2s. I first tried the SL interconnect in place of my HiLine, and yes, it definitely added some rather nice things. Similarly with SL speaker leads; more detail, precision, super smooth top end, more air around the instruments and players… a definite move forward. Then onto the interconnect between 552 and Snaxo PS… this time, yes, a little more definition but nothing to shout from the rooftops about.

To complete the loom, I put in XLR leads between the 242 and the 500s… and this made a change I really wasn’t comfortable with. As another poster said in a different SL thread… ‘more hi-fi, less music.’ Knowing these things take time to settle in, I left things as they were for weeks, and I still listened nightly to the system, but I just didn’t look forward to listening as much as usual. There was a slight but uncomfortable ‘edge’ to the music, whatever type I played. I also found, with the XLR leads, the bass had become leaner… and since the SL2s aren’t the last word in bass (although absolutely amazing in everything else) I just wasn’t getting the total satisfaction I’d experienced previously.

Ultimately, I removed the XLR leads and am once again totally happy with my system again. There are, of course, so many factors at play here, but for me a complete Super Lumina loom hasn’t proved the ultimate panacea.

Yeah, same here, Mike.
With a similar system (500 series with a passive SL2), I wrote the following a few days ago:

"My dealer told me "don't touch anything", but I couldn't resist, and I just felt I had to prove (at least to myself) that the old DIN-XLR cables are better, and with a bit of determination I connected them yesterday.

Well, they're better. Much better. I didn't know a cable is capable of doing that sort of corruption.
There are absolutely no drawbacks, but just more 'musicality' and more lively sound, with a great pace and lots of PRaT; the end result is now very impressive."

BP.

The SL DIN-XLR leads take seemingly forever to run-in - I hated them for the first few weeks, but persisted, as I'd previously borrowed my Dealers well run-in set and they were superb. If I had not heard that they could sound better then I would have given-up and posted some poor results.

They really only became 'acceptable' after about a month and can say now, about 6 months later they are wonderful and would use nothing else. All the reedy thin effects and over-lean bass gradually faded and I now have a very coherent full and detailed presentation with lots of effortless micro-musical details in a lush organic presentation I really enjoy. But I have heard them poor and understand the comments of that.

One thing I have now found is that the SL loom allows a lot more very low frequency musical information through - which has meant some changes to my stacking of equipment. I may write this up in a thread sometime.

But once the run-in is endured - all is good.

DB.

Ah, so that explains why I had no bass last week. Today, it's sounding rather lovely. 

My SuperLumina 3m speaker cables continue to improve. Would not swap them for anything else now...

Darke Bear posted:

 

One thing I have now found is that the SL loom allows a lot more very low frequency musical information through - which has meant some changes to my stacking of equipment. I may write this up in a thread sometime.

But once the run-in is endured - all is good.

DB.

i became very aware of this "more low freq information" after installing snaxo SL. i started hearing some notes i had never heard before coming through --and thats very impressive. however, its not all beer and skittles -- i could also sense the SL2s are now struggling a bit to reproduce the sort of bass from organ music -- i can sort of 'sense' it, but not that convincingly. of course, this doesnt bother me too much. One of these days, a tweak or two might balance out things a little.

My Kans do not even attempt to go that far -- and they are still enjoyable...

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

Darke Bear posted:

 

One thing I have now found is that the SL loom allows a lot more very low frequency musical information through - which has meant some changes to my stacking of equipment. I may write this up in a thread sometime.

But once the run-in is endured - all is good.

DB.

i became very aware of this "more low freq information" after installing snaxo SL. i started hearing some notes i had never heard before coming through --and thats very impressive. however, its not all beer and skittles -- i could also sense the SL2s are now struggling a bit to reproduce the sort of bass from organ music -- i can sort of 'sense' it, but not that convincingly. of course, this doesnt bother me too much. One of these days, a tweak or two might balance out things a little....

Ken - try putting a space level or Medium level between your two 500PS, you may be very surprised and pleased at what you will hear.

I found the NAP500 Power Transformers 'talk' to each other and perform a lot better when apart more than a standard level height.

There are always tweaks....

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

They really only became 'acceptable' after about a month and can say now, about 6 months later they are wonderful

I've not tried SL at home but the prospect of buying something that is unacceptable for a month does not really appeal 

Chris Dolan posted:

Darke Bear posted:

They really only became 'acceptable' after about a month and can say now, about 6 months later they are wonderful

I've not tried SL at home but the prospect of buying something that is unacceptable for a month does not really appeal 

I know - I wish it were otherwise. Perhaps your Dealer could run them in for you - but they don't as it would not be 'new' then.

If I had not heard the run-in set and only demoed a new set I would have returned them after a few days saying they were a-musical rubbish.

But life seems designed not to be simple.

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

Ken - try putting a space level or Medium level between your two 500PS, you may be very surprised and pleased at what you will hear.

I found the NAP500 Power Transformers 'talk' to each other and perform a lot better when apart more than a standard level height.

There are always tweaks....

DB.

impossible i am afraid -- there is a shelf above the frame stacks -- and i am almost at the height of the lowest part of the shelf -- so there is no room for n extra shelf (which as it happens, i already have -- so this could have been an interesting, though not easy exercise as the 500's are heavy!)

Life's tough eh...

as i say, i only notice the issue on organ music which the SL has made more apparent in the mix - so i am not really that bothered about it.

enjoy

ken

Hi Chaps, I'm moving house in a few months and with the new room layout I need to get longer cable. I have NACA 5 going from active Ovator 600's. I think I'll need 7 meter cables - up grading to SL will be a fortune so is it worth it?

System: CD 555 / LP12 full kit / 3 x NAP 300 / 552 / other bits!

Thanks Pete

I purchased 3x 7m runs of SL cable - painful financially but well worth it IMO.

I run Active Ovator S800 but before that I ran Active S600. Although I have not personally tried with the S600 the SL speaker cable, from the results with my S800 and from what I have heard on another Active S600 system I think you will find it really opens them out, lowers the subjective noise floor and improves the bass definition. The problem with Ovators is they tell it like it is and you will hear what is wrong with the NAC A5 if you try SL speaker leads.

I'd personally push back any purchase of the three SL DIN-XLR leads until last of all, as although they are eventually well worth it they take a while to run-in and don't give the near instant joy the other SL cables do.

Expensive but I knew I wanted them once I had a brief home demo of the full loom and heard the system go spacious 3D in a sumptuous way - NAC A5 was just not for me after that.

As to the opinion of musical timing issues with SL speaker leads some have experienced - I found you do get a lot more LF weight and information in the presentation that require you to take appropriate system set-up care. You run Active so you know what I mean. The more you open the door the more you hear everything good and bad if you have it there.

Once all is installed right it just works for me - timing is exceptional into the smallest parts of complex mixes - what every Artist is playing and singing and how it coheres into a whole.

DB.

Chris Dolan posted:

Darke Bear posted:

They really only became 'acceptable' after about a month and can say now, about 6 months later they are wonderful

I've not tried SL at home but the prospect of buying something that is unacceptable for a month does not really appeal 

My Super Lumina source interconnect was well run-in when I installed SL speaker and DIN/XLR cables together. The result was immediately wholly positive for me. No question about it. And then the icing on the cake developed over time. SL: cables do take some months to fully blossom.

It was exactly the same when I changed my 300 amp for a brand new 500. Instant delight. Again; the icing on the cake (with maybe a few 'down' days) gradually developed as the months passed.

Like you Chris; if an expensive upgrade doesn't do the business for me, pretty much straight away; I'm not prepared to wait months for it to happen.

I might have been lucky, installing SL speaker cable and DIN/XLR's together, because in simple terms, the former can apparently sound initially soft; and the latter, a bit spiky. Maybe the two of them together, sonically balanced out for me.

Diff'rent strokes - as ever.

John.

N16SPS posted:

Hi Chaps, I'm moving house in a few months and with the new room layout I need to get longer cable. I have NACA 5 going from active Ovator 600's. I think I'll need 7 meter cables - up grading to SL will be a fortune so is it worth it?

System: CD 555 / LP12 full kit / 3 x NAP 300 / 552 / other bits!

Thanks Pete

£9,000 for speaker wires, plus £6,000 for XLR leads, plus £1,800 per interconnect is an awful lot of money. But then it's in the context of a very high level active system. I certainly feel that adding SL leads and the Din to XLR lead to my 272/250 was an upgrade that was well worth the cost. Luckily for me I only needed the three wires to get the full loom, and the speaker wires are only 3m long, so the price was as low as it can possibly be. 

I suppose if you asked the question: would I get a bigger upgrade from changing all the wires than from changing just one 300 to a 500? you would get to your answer. 

Perhaps, or just have the 300 power amps DR'ed.  

That would definitely be worthwhile and zero risk, other than to the bank balance...

For me the purchase was fairly straightforward. My amps are keepers and why not try to extract the most from them? Plus or minus running in swings and roundabouts, why ignore this technology? Most posters have been very positive about SL and if nothing else, it is personal taste which makes folks pro or anti. I still have my Naca just in case and the SL cables could be sold on if needed. They won't need a service for a while! So far and for me, the experience has been positive. And, it has scratched my upgrade-itis itch. As I won't be going near the Statement, not much more to strive for. Oh and did I mention, they bend?

Dave

I've been running 5m SL speaker cables since August. No way would I go back to A5. DIN/RCA from my urika since December, bit rocky at first but wouldn't change now. IMO more music definitely.

DIN/XLR was different couldn't get along with these. Maybe try again in the future. 300 DR upgrade first.  

i find it amazing, but actually perhaps not surprising given the nature of this hobby, that a component (in this case, a cable) can be described as 'musical' and 'not musical' at the same time. says a lot about what this term actually means, if anything -- or that eve with a definite meaning -- we all have different interpretation of it in the contexts of our systems.

for me, so far so good with SL IC and SL snaxo 4-4. if i had the funds -- i would have gone full loom by now... buy hey, i am more than OK where i am...

enjoy

ken

Bodger posted:

For me the purchase was fairly straightforward. My amps are keepers and why not try to extract the most from them? Plus or minus running in swings and roundabouts, why ignore this technology? Most posters have been very positive about SL and if nothing else, it is personal taste which makes folks pro or anti. I still have my Naca just in case and the SL cables could be sold on if needed. They won't need a service for a while! So far and for me, the experience has been positive. And, it has scratched my upgrade-itis itch. As I won't be going near the Statement, not much more to strive for. Oh and did I mention, they bend?

Dave

Hi Dave,

I know I must seem a luddite preferring the NACA5 but I did have the SL speaker cables in my system for seven months before realising there was something missing. It would be prudent to keep the NACA5 for a while, just in case. I have to say the differences were most noticeable with vinyl replay.

ATB

Steve

Maybe I should start another thread, but....

To SL or DR?   For me it would be DRing the 552 and 555.  The SL would be the IC and SNAXO.  Cost I think is about the same.

I would intuitively expect SL to work better with DR'd amps