From SN to what? In search of just one parameter.

analogmusic posted:

202/HCDR/200 is also good, I feel it is better than SN. Music flows more naturally

Max has a HC-DR on his SN.

C.

Jan,

thanks for the reminder.. I haven't forgotten the Sonneteer Alabaster, although it is not easy to find one for demo here. (Even less easy is the decision to move out of Naim..) But I'll keep that in mind.

tp, analogue,

it seems that the thread has taken a definite direction, 282/200. I may have described my movements badly, but I have not tried a 282 at home so far, only heard it at Roberto's house (with the power stage of his NaitXS), and at my dealer's, with his usual 250.2. My impression of it is of something I'd like, full and assertive but capable of shades. So a home demo, since it's easily done, is in agenda. Thanks for all thoughts.

Hi Massimo,

I' m getting on your post only now,

I think that Richard advice  represents the best VFM, 

I did not find the 282  "Too meaty and not luminuos" but more like the opposite.

The 200, according to someone, shows some  more sonic traits of the of the big 500 than 250.

Regards

Roberto

Yup; another vote for 282/200 Massimo. Lovely. A Hi-Cap may be added later if desired. Never underestimate the sonic benefits of splitting the pre and power amps into separate boxes with dedicated power supplies.

I've also been very impressed with 272/XPS as a streamer pre-amp. This would seem to be the way forward from Naim - a new range of pre/streamers.

John.

I know my Naim dealer here feels the 282 is a "bang for the buck" pick in the Naim product line hierarchy.

Hi John, Mark, Roberto,

my dealer has an ex-dem 282 that's been on the shelf way too long. I'll go and have a talk with him, but first a relaxed home demo.

Thanks

Max

I wouldn't think 282, way too expensive for what you get, plus you never know when Naim will discontinue that old 82/282, 102/202 Electronics - bet there's something in the drawings

Why not think outside the black boxes ?

Say a 52/135 will walk over SN, 202,200 etc.. Classic piece of music makers, keeping the value and so on

and no, the original SN is not my cup at all

I've heard the 282 with a 250dr. Source was an NDX with XPSDR. Stunning combo! 

Still early days for me so moving up to a SN very soon from 5i 

Massimo Bertola posted:

Hi John, Mark, Roberto,

my dealer has an ex-dem 282 that's been on the shelf way too long. I'll go and have a talk with him, but first a relaxed home demo.

Thanks

Max

Max good stuff. The 282 is a timeless classic along with the 252 and 552 whilst other  fads come and go, you can't really go wrong with them. Enjoy the demo.... 

Simon

Been using a 282 since May last year with a non DR 200 and no HiCap. I have also demoed and experienced other pres (V1, 152, 202 and 272).

Not had experience with 52, 82 and that generation of power amps. What I gather though, is that these have different sonic character.

All I can say is that the 282 has been the most transformational piece of kit I've encountered, in my living room , so far from Naim and I'm not even using it to its full capability yet.

Really good that Max has the opportunity to home demo.....enjoy.

Jude

Max, as you know - We are on the same journey...except I just secured a 2015 282!

I'll let you know how I get on.

G

OMG! You'll have another 252/300 by the end of the year if you're not careful.  You're doomed I tell you, doomed. 

My wife once said, hi-fi business only have one thing in mind, "that you should never be satisfied with your system". There is always something out there, better clarity, more insightful. This will never end. You get some, you miss others, that's my experience. 

Have a listen for yourself within what`s available. Judging from the replies here which I look at as very predictable and be aware, not necessarily to your taste, room, speakers etc.

Enjoy, S

Hungryhalibut posted:

OMG! You'll have another 252/300 by the end of the year if you're not careful.  You're doomed I tell you, doomed. 

Their is a certain level of replay I just can't live without...I admit it! It's been a plan since the Christmas S-400 to get a nicely balanced system. The 282 is the last piece of this jigsaw.

G

252 is a sweet spot…. IMHO….  yes a leap in price from 282 but no NEARLY the price leap to a 552…  people go for many many years and never move away from a 252…  demo both….   

in terms of a balanced system…  the better the pre… the better everything else down stream.

Good luck!

OK some idle thoughts from me.

I have owned many of the options you outline (202, 200, Hicap (non DR), 282, SupercapDR, 250.2, 250DR, 252) and would advise anyone NOT to take as many baby steps as I in the interests of one's bank balance (and frankly, sanity).

I have looked over your aural desires (ooh err missus) going forward and you have also hinted at the financial limitations you (and all of us) must be conscious of. So bearing these factors in mind my suggestion would be go straight to 282, HicapDR, 200 (there are some bargain 200s out there and if you have a Hicap DR you don't need a 200DR) with a view to going to a 250DR when (or if) funds permit. Having said this I have only owned a Hicap (non DR) and a SupercapDR on a 282. Although the SupercapDR was a significant step up from the Hicap, several on here have said that the Hicap DR is all you'll ever need on the 282 and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. I went for a SupercapDR because I was fairly sure I would end up with a 252 (which I have, and it is marvellous).

My only reservation in recommending all of this is that although the 282 is lively and exuberant, it possibly lacks the ultimate subtly and delicacy you seek (although you used different language). Having said this the 202 I don't feel will give you (enough of) what you are after and the 282, 200 (and then possibly 250DR) will bring you a significant uplift in the ares you have indicated are important to you above and beyond the Supernait.

What you really need now is a good dealer that has all this gear in stock so you can have a listen to a few options. All I would suggest is that you do limit it to a few options because one runs the risk of getting confused and disappearing up one's own jaxy. I am sure there is a nicer way to put that but you know what I mean and it is getting late.

I would be interested to hear how you get on.

Remember, if it don't sound posh, don't part with your dosh!

Max

Its a world of hurt you're entering into..

Stick with adequate one box amplifier and crank your source to Mach 5

You'll be much happier 

Some good suggestions from Nogelb about demoing a limited selection.. I would home demo if you can for at least a week a setup, and dig out some reference tracks that you know, or feel you know, and enjoy. Listen through, and after a few days with each system make brief notes of standout items. Do this for each setup.

As you go up the stack, after your brain has adjusted for any tonal balance or basic presentation changes, differences are subtle (just don't believe it when people say night an day.. that is probably more they haven't adjusted to the new sound). You will find a certain preamp or amp will reveal, highlight or suppress something you like in a recording.. be comfortable with it, and feel the net gains out weigh any losses. Note it down.. If after say day three of a demo, and you still get goosebumps or emotional on a track you are probably onto a winner... Ignore such reactions in the first couple of days..as you will still be adjusting to any changes in the basic presentation ...

Another trait I use with higher end is seeing whether my brain is fooled into thinking background sound is part of the mix ... I shut my eyes in one session and I thought I could hear birds in the background of a Kings College chor recording.. it sounded really strange and amusing... Of course I was hearing the birds from my own open windows..but the recording and reality merged.. Clearly my audio system was working well..

I developed this technique to avoid disappointing bad hasty decisions I made early on in this hobby.

Simon

some good observations, but I took Richard Dane's advice ending up with 282/HCDR/200 it was sounding very fine indeed, so much so that when my 250DR arrived, I was thinking, do I really need it, before opening the box.

Of course the 250 DR sounded even much better, but the point is that 282/HCDR/200 can easily be all the Naim amp you will ever need and a good taste of the Naim hi-end sound at a reasonable price.

The 282 is one of the massive Naim jumps in the lineup.

Mark J posted:

Max

Its a world of hurt you're entering into..

Stick with adequate one box amplifier and crank your source to Mach 5

You'll be much happier 

Not sure about this, that is not my experience at all with separates.

analogmusic posted:

I took Richard Dane's advice ending up with 282/HCDR/200 it was sounding very fine indeed, so much so that when my 250DR arrived, I was thinking, do I really need it, before opening the box.

Now it sounds like you're Naim dropping

Hi all,

still idle and not-so-idle thoughts, much appreciated. At this point, having reached page two, I want to add a little to what I have said of my expectations. Apologies if it'll take time, this post can be skipped safely.

Graeme,

I look forward to having your impressions of course, thanks.

Audioneophyte,

the financial limitations mentioned by NigelB are mostly psychological, but they weigh. There's a limit I do not want to pass, and I fear 252 belongs in the area beyond that limit. It's something not easily definable and it changes in time, but it has to do with the psychological 'space' that money and listening pleasure occupy in my life - and with my awareness of how the Upgrade Path works...

NigelB,

interesting notes on the 282, thanks. No one had mentioned its 'lack of subtlety' so far, but perhaps the message was conveyed as a positive one in other words - it is 'lively and exuberant'. I presently do not know any dealer who has all this stock in house - namely, a 202, a 282 and a 200. I only have access to a 202 and a 282 I could try with the power stage of my SN. I'll do with that, and some imagination.

Mark J,

I understand. I certainly won't reassume my Naim audio life here, but you can believe me, I've been hurt already a few times.. Things bought and sold and bought again, a rollercoaster rather than a linear path upwards quality wise, temptations and regrets, and above all the awareness of how huge a mental space all this has occupied in my mind sometimes, in the last ten years or so. Audio Nirvana, so familiar to some, is a foreign country to me. Nor that I long to be there... I already have a source (CDS3/XPS.DR) beyond my amp, and I sincerely do not think I am going to look for a CD555. But thanks for the precious reminder.

Simon,

I will probably lose all interest from everyone here, but the goosebumps thing doesn't apply to me, sorry.. I never get goosebumps from recorded music. Or, rather, I experience something that I could describe as mild mental goosebumps at some occasional performance by my system. As I have confessed (?) elsewhere on these pages at times, I haven't an emotional relationship with recorded music, - or, rather, I think I stopped having one when I was between 25 and 30. Then, professional life and CD have somehow conjured the burial of my youth.. And no, I won't buy a Sondek! I won't enter into an even worse world of hurt... For me, expectations are: the occasional pleasure of listening to some well recorded music sound competent, lively and occasionally engaging through an admirable and reliable toy. Period.

This defines also my mental and economical boundaries. Thanks again for all the contributions, although I fear I more or less am where I was..

Max

Analogue,

I hadn't read your post before my long reply. I think that I have two options: stay where I am, and end with 2nd hand 282 and 200. I will commit seriously to not passing that border. M.

Massimo Bertola posted:

Analogue,

I hadn't read your post before my long reply. I think that I have two options: stay where I am, and end with 2nd hand 282 and 200. I will commit seriously to not passing that border. M.

Can I use this phrase on my wife Max?!

G

Max - if you should move to the 282, I'd suggest that you keep yourself open to the option of a 250DR. The extra muscularity of the amplifier, over that of the 200, is exactly what your SBLs need. It will give them a greater scale and more sense of life. The 250DR is excellent with my SL2s, and will do the same for your SBLs.