From SN to what? In search of just one parameter.

Oh stop it Nigel!

G

GraemeH posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Analogue,

I hadn't read your post before my long reply. I think that I have two options: stay where I am, and end with 2nd hand 282 and 200. I will commit seriously to not passing that border. M.

Can I use this phrase on my wife Max?!

G

Why? Passing borders keeps marriages alive..

Nigel,

a common friend has just reminded me of when I wrote that I would not buy anything over three-figure prices... I now (not suddenly, to be honest) feel rather silly..

I remember that too - but the CDS3 has already blown that! The secret is knowing when to stop, rather than setting unachievable arbitrary limits. My view is that you either keep the Supernait, or move to a 282/250DR, and don't bother with options in between.

Massimo Bertola posted:

GraemeH posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Analogue,

I hadn't read your post before my long reply. I think that I have two options: stay where I am, and end with 2nd hand 282 and 200. I will commit seriously to not passing that border. M.

Can I use this phrase on my wife Max?!

G

Why? Passing borders keeps marriages alive..

Indeed...25 happy years this year.

G

G,

a very good thing. Best from me,

M

Max, the SBL's are twenty years old + loudspeakers and I believe that you are not fully exploiting the possibilities of the supernait... 

Assuming your speakers are biwirable, one option is to add a 200 or 250 and biamp; in my case with my Spendor SP100/R2s, I preferred the sound with the SN connected to the upper terminals. 

In time, you can always add a power supply and use the SN as a preamp...then of course, danger beckons because the temptation would be a subsequent move up to a 282 or 252...(gulp!)

Singslinger posted:

Assuming your speakers are biwirable, one option is to add a 200 or 250 and biamp; in my case with my Spendor SP100/R2s, I preferred the sound with the SN connected to the upper terminals. 

In time, you can always add a power supply and use the SN as a preamp...then of course, danger beckons because the temptation would be a subsequent move up to a 282 or 252...(gulp!)

They are not biwirable. They can be actively driven, but that's something else altogether. 

Very interesting thread. My first Naim amp was a Nait 5i, moving up was a Nait XS but skipped the SN for 202/200. I am glad I took the jump straight to Naim classic pre-power range and proved to be rewarding as Richard Dane has endorsed above that 202 is a better pre-amp than the SN's. After a year of owning 202/200, I was offered a display set of a Nac282 from my dealer which I quickly brought home for a demo. When the Nac282 was paired with the Nap200, my jaw dropped. I swear it was not appreciable but significant gain in all round performance. You do not need an audiophile's ears to notice the improvement, I wager even your wife would easily tell which is better. That moment all of a sudden, I felt like I had reached an audio nirvana and could easily live with Nac282/HCDR/200 for rest of my life. Music through this combo is presented with full of energy, details, dynamic & agility. I agree with some of the sentiments here Nac282/HCDR/Nap200 is a very very lovely combo & in fact better VFM compare to full blown of Nac282/HCDR/Nap250.2. IMO, what one would expect from adding Nap250.2 is more slams, more grooves and lots of grips but at a much higher cost. Of course I took the plunge for an offer that was hard to resist. Only setback was the DR version was born weeks later after my new Nac250.2 arrived. Well, life is full of surprises would you not agree? Anyway, I derived great musical enjoyment from my current Nac282/HCDR/Nap250.2 although law of diminishing return starts to creep in from this point.

Simon has done a great job here summing up everything one needs to know from various combinations. I think OP does not need to seek advice elsewhere, Simon has had them all answered in short & simple yet in a convincing style.  Oh before I forget, I remembered Richard D post, if one demands better performance, pre-power is the way to go. Cheers.

Good Luck. 

Hi Max,

it looks that you're about to audition the 282: tantalising!

I'd suggest you bring your SN with you and compare the two preamps into a 250. I must confess that, having compared my previous 282/HiCapDR with the 272 preamp section (using a little switch box), I sold my 282: I could not make out clear differences! This also keeps my options open for naim's next preamp generation. Also, I wasn't too happy with the 282's high input sensitivity (I used 6dB attenuators), and then my 282 sometimes refused to accept any button presses, even after inspection by naim. That's my 282 story.

Cheers,

Stefan

cat345 posted:

Max, the SBL's are twenty years old + loudspeakers and I believe that you are not fully exploiting the possibilities of the supernait... 

cat,

this is an interesting (yet not completely unexpected, by me at least) turn: some would believe that no doubt I am not fully exploiting the possibilities of the SBLs... Yes, they are old and yet they are special, I remember how my first pair sounded, ten years ago, when I had 202/200 – because I have had the pair. My second choice of them was dictated by: a very very good price, their reputation, their clear lean voice, their standing close to the wall, the difficulty of making more full bodied designs perform properly in our living room. A friend who's a member here has long had Neat Petites and apart from a rumour/fact that they were fine tuned with the Supernait, he's (been) very happy with them. I could try them, but age must be slowly dropping some mild poison in me that's making me lazy, tired of trying, plugging, unplugging, moving, comparing... I simply don't have mental energy for this anymore. So, unless a pair of Neat Petites rings at my door, I doubt I'll have a chance to try other speakers.

(I'll reassume all those I have tried here, many with a SN: Marten Design Miles II, SBLs, N-Sats, Arivas, Allaes, Credos, old Acoustic Research 4x, rega RS7, PMC Twenty 24, what else...? Only likeable, the Sats and the SBLs. That's it, for now. Thanks for the suggestion.)

mikapoh,

thanks for your impressions, which add to the general consensus about 282/200. BTW, my wife is not an audiophile (an almost exclusively male disease) but she's a choir conductor, and she's always been able (if not properly enthusiast) to detect changes in both directions in my systems... ;-)  As far as instinct is concerned, anyway, I would go for a 200 not a 250; don't ask me why: just gut feeling. Apart from cost, of course.

Stefan,

another caveat about the 282: I must start to turn this into a poll, drawing conclusions.. Curiously, the SN also has what Stereophile' John Atkinson, testing it, said an unnecessarily high gain; I'd like to be able to use more of the potentiometer range, but I can't. Using the Vertere cables has made me gain perhaps one 'hour' (from 9 to 10 o' clock), but to me a pot should be kept at 11/12 or so, in normal use... What was so simple to do with the programmable volume control of the lovely Nait 5.

Cheers

Max

Of course, the 272 has a decent volume control. Go on, Max, you know you want one! 

Mass.

considering the volume of Naim devices that you have owned - what's holding you back from acquiring more ? -  If no one knows what's not worth knowing about Naim...!

TOBYJUG posted:

Mass.

considering the volume of Naim devices that you have owned - what's holding you back from acquiring more ? -  If no one knows what's not worth knowing about Naim...!

its allways clever to rethink ones future Investments, no matter how much experience

Also maybe selling on current stuff is needed too

I didn't read through the whole thread so sorry if this was answered already but why SN2 is not an option? Based on what you tell you're looking for (openness and clarity) it would be EXACTLY what you need. I come from original SN and upgraded to SN2. They're two totally different beasts and SN2 is on a whole new level of performance compared to its predecessor. SN2 brings more clarity, better dynamics, more open and enjoyable sound. The original SN sounds weiled, slow and muffled compared to SN2. I've used both of them with HiCap or HiCapDR. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Of course, the 272 has a decent volume control. Go on, Max, you know you want one! 

No, you know I want one... 

Hi all,

I am extremely pleased that there are still contributions to my thread; everything helps to have a clear mind. Thanks.

Tobyjug,

b_lund has answered your question, I believe... In part it's just having experimented (read: bought and sold) so much that has worn me out a little, if I'm using the proper words; in part, I actually have to sell gear. I now have a couple of things that should go before I buy, and anyway my choice is really limited to 202/200 or 282/200. I believe the 200 to be the power amp for me, and I only must gather some mental energy to plan a home demo of the 282. But so far I haven't enough..

Patu,

no one has suggested the SN2 so far; perhaps my SN1 with HC-DR is close enough to it in performance. Lately this combo is sounding so good that I am wondering if a change in amp is really needed; plus, there's cat354's post... My dealer has a SN2, a direct comparison was in agenda, but see the blue part of my reply to Tobyjug...

M.

Massimo Bertola posted:

 

 

Patu,

no one has suggested the SN2 so far; perhaps my SN1 with HC-DR is close enough to it in performance. Lately this combo is sounding so good that I am wondering if a change in amp is really needed; plus, there's cat354's post... My dealer has a SN2, a direct comparison was in agenda, but see the blue part of my reply to Tobyjug...

M.

I'm amazed that no one hasn't. I used SN1 with HCDR for some time and the original HC before that. It's truly a great amp but the leap in performance with SN2 is substantial. It's probably my biggest upgrade so far, even bigger than moving from the integrated DAC of SN to Naim DAC. I recommend auditioning it if you can. 

At the end of the third paragraph of your opening post, you appear to rule out the SN2, which is doubtless why nobody has recommended it until now. That would have been my initial suggestion, but for those words. I suggest that you address the question 'would I be happy with a four box amplifier, to go with a two box CD player?'

^ and you can put our hicap dr on the SN2 and it's even better

282 (2015 model) slotted in to replace the 202 (HCDR still in place).

All the superlatives and cliche's apply...OMFG.

That's me nicely balanced - NDX Ndac XPS : HiLine : 282 HCDR : 200 : TQB : Ovator S-400.

The 202 to 282 is the most significant 'wow' moment I've experienced in my long years at this game. I'm seriously thinking my old 2006 252/300 kit was in need of a serious service as it never sounded anything like as good this.

(Sorry Max!)

G

GraemeH posted:

282 (2015 model) slotted in to replace the 202 (HCDR still in place).

All the superlatives and cliche's apply...OMFG.

That's me nicely balanced - NDX Ndac XPS : HiLine : 282 HCDR : 200 : TQB : Ovator S-400.

The 202 to 282 is the most significant 'wow' moment I've experienced in my long years at this game. I'm seriously thinking my old 2006 252/300 kit was in need of a serious service as it never sounded anything like as good this.

(Sorry Max!)

G

What happened to your SN2 Graeme? You sure move quickly.

Almost balanced....a 250 maybe......

have a good evening

Patu posted:

GraemeH posted:

282 (2015 model) slotted in to replace the 202 (HCDR still in place).

All the superlatives and cliche's apply...OMFG.

That's me nicely balanced - NDX Ndac XPS : HiLine : 282 HCDR : 200 : TQB : Ovator S-400.

The 202 to 282 is the most significant 'wow' moment I've experienced in my long years at this game. I'm seriously thinking my old 2006 252/300 kit was in need of a serious service as it never sounded anything like as good this.

(Sorry Max!)

G

What happened to your SN2 Graeme? You sure move quickly.

A Roadmap was required after exchanging the PMC .23 for Ovator S-400...A brief dalliance with a 202 HCDR NAPSC : 200 (although better than SN2 in some respects) didn't quite realise the potential of the NDX Ndac XPS source. 

The 282 HCDR really is a leap in this context...and not a 250.2 for me as I don't need the watts and prefer the sonic signature of the 200. A 250DR is a different beast of course, but not for now.

I'm done upgrading for a few years at least.

G