From SN to what? In search of just one parameter.

Remember that whatever component you choose from what you have listed, Naim still have full control over how it sounds for better or worse .  Like it or not like it.

GraemeH posted:

The 282 HCDR really is a leap in this context...and not a 250.2 for me as I don't need the watts and prefer the sonic signature of the 200.

Just remember me at Christmas, Graeme  ;-))

C.

Well, Graeme, you certainly sound like a happy bunny. Isn't it great when everything falls into place. Let's hope this helps to make up Massimo's mind!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Well, Graeme, you certainly sound like a happy bunny. Isn't it great when everything falls into place. Let's hope this helps to make up Massimo's mind!

A substantial leap now from the SN2 but I'm glad I took baby steps to get there.

G

thinking laterally... what about Hugo TT (no need for a preamp) into ATC P1 power amp (transparent, true dual mono with lots of muscle)?

I should add - no limited volume pot range on the 282. The 202 was less amenable beyond about 8:30 but the 282 is fine to 10:00 in my set-up.

G

Patu posted:

I didn't read through the whole thread so sorry if this was answered already but why SN2 is not an option? Based on what you tell you're looking for (openness and clarity) it would be EXACTLY what you need. I come from original SN and upgraded to SN2. They're two totally different beasts and SN2 is on a whole new level of performance compared to its predecessor. SN2 brings more clarity, better dynamics, more open and enjoyable sound.

... and a more useable volume control

So Max just skimming through and there seems like some sort of consensus along the lines I originally suggested with one or two developments along the way.

If you do audition the 282 with a HicapDR and a 200 (don't need 200DR as the DR bit only powers the 202 and you 'need' the HicapDR for the 282 remember) I think you will be amazed at how much this combo moves things along from your SN. I am sure the SN2 is better than the SN but it just seems like a bit of a sideways move that you will soon tire of. I remember being very happy with this combination (even with the Hicap non DR) and with the 282 at the centre of the system it offers stonking VFM IMHO. Likewise the 202, although great, does not compete with the 282 and in my opinion is not a big enough step above the SN's capabilities to keep you satisfied long term. I think I said earlier that I regretted so many small steps along the way. You will get far more satisfaction and in the end spend less if you decide which back boxes you might 'leapfrog'. I wish I had the benefit of this advice a few years ago.

All I would say is if you do get a touch of upgraditis in the future the 250DR is yet again an huge step up in SQ and you will already have the foundation in place to make the most of the 250DR. Just saying!

Have fun and let us know how you get on.

If it don't sound fantastic, DO NOT flash your plastic!

Cheers

N

Bang on the money NigelB.

G

GraemeH posted:

I should add - no limited volume pot range on the 282. The 202 was less amenable beyond about 8:30 but the 282 is fine to 10:00 in my set-up.

G

Same here, and I have quite efficient speakers that go loud easily.

I've used the V1 which has the same volume control tech as the 272 and SU.  Whilst it was something to get used to when switching to the 282, it's no big deal. 

The big deal is the musicality of the 282.  

Jude

I use SN2 with Focal speakers. I experience more than enough clarity or insight to the music.

I used 202/200 with Allae years ago and found it clean and clear, but also lean and lifeless in my room. Switching to SN, they showed me how important system balance is, and room implementation. It worked great to me. I have used 202/200 - Spendor in another room and that also sounded great so there's no guarantee either ways.

To get your setup to play music and where you don't miss anything (even if it's not perfect) is not necessarily about component choice, it's about system synergy, how your speakers cope with your room and environment and last (at least to me) how much did this cost. 

I have always used good sources, also owned CDS3/ XPS. Did musical experience change with the cdp change? My experience Is CDS3 don't integrate well in all setups and may suit a more open, insightful and "fresher" amp than SN1. SBL I have never heard.

My advice would be to start auditioning SN2, you say it's available for audition. If success, it will save you a lot of money, less boxes and so on. 

As I wrote in a post above, there's no end to it. At an age of 53 I'm like you, tired of trying and switching, it should just work.

With best intensions, S

Hi S,

thanks, a useful post. If you have reached the point of tiredness at 53, well you're ten years ahead of me and I am glad for that – you'll have more time to enjoy quiet, music and sensibility..

I'll audition the SN2 at home, but it's a brand new piece and it wouldn't cost me much less than trading mine for a used pre/power... But I am curious: too many voices in favour of SN2 (although not Richard's; but it's true, as Nigel pointed out, that I had somehow ruled it out in my first post).

Best
M

Worth a listen to the SN2, I auditioned mine along with a 202/200 over a number of days and prefered the SN2 by far.  With a hicap dr added it's even better.  Others may not agree which is fine but I'd listen to all the options you can and find the one that suits your ears and best fits your system.  Make sure they are warm when you audition. 

Ciao Massimo

Maybe this will also help regarding the sideways step of moving to SN2

My previous system was:

ND5XS > SN1 > Spendor A6

I was ready to upgrade so wanted to listen to same system but with SN2 in place. So my dealer obliged and I listened for 30 minutes. I thought, Mmmm, I basically already have this sound at home!

Interestingly, my trusty dealer also had NDX in the rack and warmed up. So I then listened to:

NDX > SN2 > Spendor A6

a much noticeable improvement and very easy to hear the positive difference.

So, from an Amplifier point-of-view, maybe it is correct for you to move to 282 + HiCap DR + ...... for the bigger, noticeable change.

I was in a different situation and wanted to max out my source but ended up with the SN2 anyway as wanted the pure analogue NAIT. I will add I am very happy with the SN2 and it never fails to produce wonderful music for me.

Buona fortuna!

Anton

AntonD posted:

Ciao Massimo

Maybe this will also help regarding the sideways step of moving to SN2

My previous system was:

ND5XS > SN1 > Spendor A6

I was ready to upgrade so wanted to listen to same system but with SN2 in place. So my dealer obliged and I listened for 30 minutes. I thought, Mmmm, I basically already have this sound at home!

Interestingly, my trusty dealer also had NDX in the rack and warmed up. So I then listened to:

NDX > SN2 > Spendor A6

a much noticeable improvement and very easy to hear the positive difference.

So, from an Amplifier point-of-view, maybe it is correct for you to move to 282 + HiCap DR + ...... for the bigger, noticeable change.

I was in a different situation and wanted to max out my source but ended up with the SN2 anyway as wanted the pure analogue NAIT. I will add I am very happy with the SN2 and it never fails to produce wonderful music for me.

Buona fortuna!

Anton

Funny, because my impressions of moving from SN to SN2 were completely different. There's a huge difference in the performance of these two, as I wrote earlier. I ordered my SN2 new and did my audition at home in identical conditions. Also when I updated my source from SN's integrated DAC to separate Naim DAC (I still used SN as an amp back then) the difference wasn't that great, still there though. I still think myself as a source first guy though, if you feed crap in your amp, it's crap coming out of it also. 

Massimo:

If the SN2 you audition is brand new unit, it needs fair amount of time to burn in. The sound will change a lot during that time. At first it sounded little bit hard and clinical but it went away completely with burn in.

Anton,

one of the reasons that made me consider a pre/power (202/200, 282/200, even 282/250) is that I have very good equipment at the extremes: a CDS3 with an XPS-DR is really something, and the SBLs are - as Christopher calls them - iconic, venerable. True, mine are 19 years old, but in extremely good shape for what I can say by ear. So, the idea (based on balance) was: better amp, even though I don't always feel a need for a better amp. The SN2, though, could be a nice solution.

Patu

the SN2 is brand new meaning that it's the store's propriety and has played scarcely, but I think it is run in by now. It's being sold starting from retail, though, it is not used or ex-dem.

Anyway – to try and sum it up: an old rule is, buy the best thing you can afford. But this – in my case, at least – conflicts with the ratio each of us hosts (safe, perhaps, for the most rich and careless) between cost and perceived value. We'll see...

Bearing in mind the budget you seem to be considering I think you'll probably end up with 282/Hi/200 or 250 but if you want to give Naim a run for its money I heard SBLs sounding extreamly good on a Rega Isis/Osiris combo. Now a Rega CD player (isis or saturn anyway) into a Naim amp always sounded lacking to me but Naim into Rega is a lot more engaging, auditioning an Osiris with your CDS3 and SBLs might be worth a go.

Another unexpected turn! After all the evil things I said on rega, how can I consider it..?

I'm joking of course: rega has a strange appeal to me, I love its general concept and often the looks of his gear, would really want to like it and I suspect that its success is partly due to the idea it conveys that British quality and 'uniqueness' can (also) be 'cheap'... But I have never been able to get along well with it. I had a pair of RS7s, but in my living room, and with a rega Mira, they sounded bass-y, with a piercing upper-mid and a veiled treble. Something like cheap Quads... Joking again. On the other hand, an old Apollo (or was it a Saturn? I've never been good at astronomy) I heard vs a CD5XS into a NaitXS seemed to me a little greyer, but also more natural and easy to listen to than the Naim... Trompe l'oreille?

But the Isis/Osiris line looks gorgeous, albeit not exactly cheap... And my dealer has the two, and doesn't seem too keen on caring about them (my dealer is a good guy, and has some ear too, but lately he just gets aroused by gear with 5 to 6-figure price tags); later today I'll pay him a visit and will take something home, like a good thieving magpie.

Thanks for the suggestion, appreciated and made me curious.

M

Do not take home the Isis/Osiris unless your prepaired to purchase - its a really superb combo, usually available demo, s/h "affordable"

The RS floorstanders are boomy shiit, agree

b_lund posted:

The RS floorstanders are boomy shiit, agree

Not the BMR tech RS10s. Though this need not concern Max, owner of the 'iconic' and  'venerable' (his word!) SBLs.

Chris

Indeed, my words...

;-)

I first the Isis/Osiris combo on a pair of RS7s and wasn't convinced in the least. Later I heard them through SBLs, now that was another thing entirely. The timing is a bit rounder than a 282 with any PS, closer to a 552 but less resolved and a little softer.  The CDS will work fine with an Osiris.

Yeti,

I may listen to the Osiris, but here it costs €9900... Courtesy of the new Italian importer and distributor, who has somehow risen the price list of their gear of about 40% in the last year or so. Even if I got 30% discount – not very likely –, it still would cost more than 4 times what I paid for my used SN. I should like it a lot for it to be interesting...

M

yeti42 posted:

 

I first the Isis/Osiris combo on a pair of RS7s and wasn't convinced in the least. Later I heard them through SBLs, now that was another thing entirely. The timing is a bit rounder than a 282 with any PS, closer to a 552 but less resolved and a little softer.  The CDS will work fine with an Osiris.

 

 

 

 

Timing is a bit rounder...?

G

G,

time bends around mass and gravity, as has been demonstrated by Einstein a century ago; and since planets are spherical, time usually bends in a curvilinear way. Perhaps it was this.