From SN to what? In search of just one parameter.

Massimo Bertola posted:

G,

time bends around mass and gravity, as has been demonstrated by Einstein a century ago; and since planets are spherical, time usually bends in a curvilinear way. Perhaps it was this.

...perhaps.

G

Naim nail the leading edge, Regas have a slower (rounder was the impression I got) attack but still manage to time.

Naktar - Tab in the Ocean was always disappointing on the 282/SCdr/250 but bounced along very nicely on the Rega, Peter Hammill also suffered, though there was no bounce involved this time, a lot of other music  was preferable on the Naim.

With a 282/hi/250 already I bought a SCdr rather than an Osiris, from a different starting point I don't know how it would have gone, I might have resisted the 552 a year later.

GraemeH posted:

yeti42 posted:

 

I first the Isis/Osiris combo on a pair of RS7s and wasn't convinced in the least. Later I heard them through SBLs, now that was another thing entirely. The timing is a bit rounder than a 282 with any PS, closer to a 552 but less resolved and a little softer.  The CDS will work fine with an Osiris.

 

 

 

 

Timing is a bit rounder...?

G

Like a watch. Unless it's square of course. 

Yeti,

I was wrong, my dealer hasn't Isis/Osiris as I thought, but SaturnR/Elicit R, so no test of the Egyptian Gods is possible. Thanks for your impressions.

M

I have just received a brand new sealed box 250DR at home to try out using my SN2 as pre . I don't want too get carried away with superlatives but it is a bit Wow ! Lord knows what it will be like in a few days or what the amps further up the range sound like ?? There is more of everything but above all its so controlled and detailed . I really don't to say PRAT but it really does apply here , all my old favourite songs are brand new , I've never heard them like this and its not even warmed up . I don't think an amp as hit me like this since I first heard my Nait2 when I was 18. I was interested but sceptical when I picked it up but I'm not sure I can take it back now .... Lets see what the next few days bring but  I think I may have opened a whole new can of worms ...

Peter. 

Theirs no going back now....enjoy...

wenger2015 posted:

Theirs no going back now....enjoy...

I think you may well be right . 

Cheers 

In case anyone is interested, this afternoon I went to my dealer and finally tried a direct comparison between 202 and 282. Both units are oldish but unsold, a sort of very long ex dem. Good for me that I don't care for age.

The system was CDX2.2, into either 202 or 282 with NAPSC and HCDR, into 250.2 into ELAC FS406 speakers, with Nordost speaker cables. IC and XLR to DIN were standard Naim. This is what was available. Speaker and speaker cable options required so much talking that I immediately felt appalled at the mere idea of asking. 

So, to cut a long story short, there is not much game between the two preamps unfortunately; the 282 is simply better under any aspect. Is it a big surprise? The 202 is a lovely preamp, but its relationship to the lower range is apparent; it is smoother than the 282, slightly more luminous but also a tad 'poorer'; one hears less ambience information, and the sounds are more 'affectionately described' than 'passionately recreated'; the 282 brings everything to the front, is generous and rich and leaves an aural impression of what's been played just like some colours and images leave a retinal impression of themselves. The 202 is lovely, but somehow evanescent.

That's all. Best, M

Massimo Bertola posted:

In case anyone is interested, this afternoon I went to my dealer and finally tried a direct comparison between 202 and 282. Both units are oldish but unsold, a sort of very long ex dem. Good for me that I don't care for age.

The system was CDX2.2, into either 202 or 282 with NAPSC and HCDR, into 250.2 into ELAC FS406 speakers, with Nordost speaker cables. IC and XLR to DIN were standard Naim. This is what was available. Speaker and speaker cable options required so much talking that I immediately felt appalled at the mere idea of asking. 

So, to cut a long story short, there is not much game between the two preamps unfortunately; the 282 is simply better under any aspect. Is it a big surprise? The 202 is a lovely preamp, but its relationship to the lower range is apparent; it is smoother than the 282, slightly more luminous but also a tad 'poorer'; one hears less ambience information, and the sounds are more 'affectionately described' than 'passionately recreated'; the 282 brings everything to the front, is generous and rich and leaves an aural impression of what's been played just like some colours and images leave a retinal impression of themselves. The 202 is lovely, but somehow evanescent.

That's all. Best, M

Excellent report...'evanescent' and forced sounding by comparison...but still with some good qualities.

Are you getting the 282 then Max?

G

With many good qualities, G.. I use words to stress a little their differences. Both very good preamps, but one is Batman and the other is Robin.

G,

I will have to get something. I have a credit at my dealer's, due to a silly purchase that he very kindly took back for what I had paid. He is gently pushing me towards buying his 282/250.2 combo, but I am still in discomfort at the idea of such an important purchase.

M

Massimo Bertola posted:

G,

I will have to get something. I have a credit at my dealer's, due to a silly purchase that he very kindly took back for what I had paid. He is gently pushing me towards buying his 282/250.2 combo, but I am still in discomfort at the idea of such an important purchase.

M

No pockets in a shroud, as they say here Max...

G

I had to google this. Given the state of EU Banks, I may not even need to be dead... 

Massimo Bertola posted:

G,

I will have to get something. I have a credit at my dealer's, due to a silly purchase that he very kindly took back for what I had paid. He is gently pushing me towards buying his 282/250.2 combo, but I am still in discomfort at the idea of such an important purchase.

M

That's a lovely combination, Max.  If you take the plunge I'm sure it will serve you well for many a year.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I have no doubt about it.. 

Max

Halloween Man posted:

thinking laterally... what about Hugo TT (no need for a preamp) into ATC P1 power amp (transparent, true dual mono with lots of muscle)?

Halloween Man,

sorry, your post sort of had escaped me. I don't know: that would mean changing my front end to a DAC, which would mean going streaming, and giving up the CDS3 since I wouldn't have a preamp and, if I see correctly, the Hugo TT has not line inputs? This might be a good idea the day I give up CD replay and Naim... But so far, I have too many black boxes. But thanks.

Max, you will surely enjoy the CDS3, 282,250 for many years to come.  It is a sensible investment in musical pleasure which (for many of us) competes well with other discretionary expenses.  It will likely sound better after bedding in for a few weeks.

You do need to budget for an extra shelf or two, for the preamp and maybe the NAPSC.  Such fine boxes deserve good support.

Cheers,

Charlie

Max, I believe I suggested a 282/200 (non DR, don't need it)/HicapDR as a good combo for you to try out, skipping the great, but ultimately less capable 202 and swerving the considerable cost of the 250DR (for now anyway) as a system that would last you and that would take some time to tire of (if ever). Blimey, I packed a lot into that sentence but I hope it makes sense.

You have already discovered the value of the 282 above that of the 202 and I think it is a great idea to partner it with the 250.5. I had this combo with a Hicap (non DR) first and then with a SupercapDR but I suspect the HicapDR is possibly the best VFM PS for the 282. I loved this combination and when I upgraded to a 250DR it took it to another level (I know it is frowned upon to use such superlatives, same as uttering the forbidden 'night and day' phrase). The 250DR does though, take the 282 to another level, honest.

I believe you are on the right track but you are right to question the outlay. Don't let anyone spend your money for you. Keep listening to a limited number of combinations (too many and you will get confused) and you will come to the right answer for you and your wallet.

Good luck and would love to hear the final outcome from you.

Massimo Bertola posted:

In case anyone is interested...

You have no idea. Richard had to disable the "number of views" option because it was out of range.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Hi John, Mark, Roberto,

my dealer has an ex-dem 282 that's been on the shelf way too long. I'll go and have a talk with him, but first a relaxed home demo.

Thanks

Max

Max good stuff. The 282 is a timeless classic along with the 252 and 552 whilst other  fads come and go, you can't really go wrong with them. Enjoy the demo.... 

Simon

 

+1. Owned a SN1...great piece with excellent boogie factor although a bit grainy. Own a SN2... excellent amp with more refinement. Own 282/250.2...in another league altogether. Get demo pieces with warranty and save a bundle with zero regrets.

Well there's not much space left for further considerations it seems; I'll come back with news of some sort. Thanks for all idle thoughts, and for the more industrious too..

M

Good luck with your decision Max.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Don't leave it two leight two decide.

....Subliminal...who...me?

G

It's not subliminal any more..

Well, to cut a long story short: I had to buy something from my dealer because I had a credit there. I excluded home demos because a) I simply can't take it anymore and, b) I trusted any preamp I would take home to have something I would like.

Unfortunately, local Naim's price list has become absurdly high, and I was not prepared to face that a 282 now costs €7200; especially if the one he has there is 10 years old. Same story for his beautiful pair of rosewood S-400s: two years ago they cost €5000+, now they cost €7000+. Great as a discount may be, too much is too much.

So my only option was taking his NAC202, which I did. In time, I may change it to a 282, but only if I will be openly, consciously dissatisfied with it. I have bought a nice NAP200 and a NAPSC (good bargains) and my trusted SuperNait has just left for Madrid. Now my system is the one I had 10 years ago, but with a CDS3 instead of a CDX2. It took me a lot of time, mental energy and money to do this long return trip, but experience cannot be acquired with short cuts.

Bottom line: if I had had this experience 40 years ago, I wouldn't have taken the HiFi route at all, but then, we do what we do and we can't do otherwise, isn't it?

M