From SN to what? In search of just one parameter.

Very interesting Massimo. That price differential is horrendous!

The 202/Napsc responds nicely to a HCDR (which I think you have?). Live recordings I found had a more 'live' presence than the SN2 HCDR.

ENJOY!

Graeme

I had a 202, napsc, Hicap, 200 with CDS3/XPS and SBLs for a while and it was super, engaging and fleet of foot. With a dr Hicap and XPS it's going to be even better, I'm sure. It sounds as though everything has worked out very well in the end - swapping equipment is a somewhat trying experience. 

Nigel & Graeme,

yes I have a HiCapDR, and I also have upgraded my XPS to DR. It's something I did gladly in spite of the cost because you always have good use for a HC and an XPS.

I'll be rather curious to hear the effect of the HCDR on the 202; it's a system that will stay for long, this time, I'm sure; live presence it's something I love, and the mellow acoustics of our living room will complement the 'liveliness'. It will also be the right occasion to finally post a few pics in the System pics thread.

M

I'm very happy with the SN1 after the Nait XS. it's much better in every way. It's even better than a nac202/200 in my opinion with Allaes. More upfront, better musical communication, less dry, more flat earth etc.  And the DAC is really great with the Sonos Connect!

So keep the SN1

Robiwan,

my SN1 is on its way to Madrid. It will make someone else happy. I had ceased using its very good DAC, so I had no use for it anymore... 

In these modern times of 272s and DR power amps I doubt that a post on such aged products as NAC202 and NAP200 can raise much excitement, but I complete my thread with the news that I added a very good, 2011 NAP200 to my 202.

It was a very interesting re-discovery: I have had 202/NAPSC/200/SBLs ten years ago, but then I had CDX2/XPS and all standard Naim cabling while now I have CDS3/XPS-DR and all Vertere cabling, and the difference is not subtle.

The first thing I noticed from this move is how much a Supernait's preamp section is, actually, similar to a 282. I have compared 202 and 282 recently, and what wasn't there anymore in moving from SN to 202/200 here is precisely the assertive, full-scaled, upfront presentation of the 282, which was much the same in the SN. In this respect, my subjective impression that SN1 is conceptually different, and globally preferable, to a SN2 has become subjective certainty.

The second thing I noticed is how enjoyable, refined, classy the 202/200 combo is, although I am sure that the contribution of the full Vertere cabling (IC, Snaics and speaker cables) and the two DR PSUs is not marginal; the soundstage, compared to the SN's, is less wide and perhaps less sharply articulated, but dynamics are more ready and shaded, and respond better to the music's requests: the SN has a mind of its own, and seems to decide that everything is worth being put under the limelight.

All in all, my second impression of this 202/200 combo is that it reminds me of an optimised, perfected, enlarged Nait5, and I can say it's a musical joy, and a very good companion to CD replaying.

M 

When i heard a 202/200 combo i thought it always sounded lean, glassy, clean, a bit boring but with good dynamics and transparancy. I find the SN1 much more enjoyable with better grip,  coherence, slam, boogie woogie etc. That's why i have a SN1

Excellent - it's all come together very nicely in the end. As I said above, I had a non-DR version (and non-Vertere) version of the system some years ago and it was most enjoyable. Let's see the pictures...

Robiwan posted:

When i heard a 202/200 combo i thought it always sounded lean, glassy, clean, a bit boring but with good dynamics and transparancy. I find the SN1 much more enjoyable with better grip,  coherence, slam, boogie woogie etc. That's why i have a SN1

I'm sure Massimo will find that most reassuring. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Robiwan posted:

When i heard a 202/200 combo i thought it always sounded lean, glassy, clean, a bit boring but with good dynamics and transparancy. I find the SN1 much more enjoyable with better grip,  coherence, slam, boogie woogie etc. That's why i have a SN1

I'm sure Massimo will find that most reassuring. 

Ears Brain & Room (not a pop combo from the progressive era) play a huge part in the Experience (not the Hendrix one). I find the 202/200 more refined than the SN1; after years of boogie woogie some cheek to cheek will be welcome...

Do you have the Napsc2 & HCDR on the 202 Max?

G

G,

HCDR already there, NAPSC arriving on Monday!

M

Massimo Bertola posted:

G,

HCDR already there, NAPSC arriving on Monday!

M

...then the 202 will be 'Maxed-out'!

G

G,

the NAPSC has arrived; I cannot say that I hear a huge difference but the box is cute and if Naim has printed 'Upgrade1' by the NAPSC socket, well it means something I believe. Now yes, the 202 is Maxed-out! Although it took me two days to catch the pun with the capital M...

Ciao

M

Massimo Bertola posted:

G,

the NAPSC has arrived; I cannot say that I hear a huge difference but the box is cute and if Naim has printed 'Upgrade1' by the NAPSC socket, well it means something I believe. Now yes, the 202 is Maxed-out! Although it took me two days to catch the pun with the capital M...

Ciao

M

I think if the 202 were bare and you did the 'upgrades' in order you would notice more but the HCDR is so significant it will overshadow the baby NAPSC 2.

Enjoy.

G

Good stuff, Max.  I hope your new amp thrills you.

Mike

Mike,

I'm playing John Tilbury's recording of John Cage's Sonatas and interludes for prepared piano just now, and I must say that having owned Naim systems that sounded charming and mannered (CD5/Nait5/n-Sats) and systems that sounded like a fight in a pub (the first day of my first XPS.2 on my first CDX2), I find the current one having a miraculous balance between clarity, smoothness and immediacy. It's mostly due to the DR part of the PSUs, I'm sure, but to my ears this level of detail and 'domesticity', combined, is very close to how HiFi should sound just before the dividing line beyond which the system tries to substitute for reality.

Best

M 

"...close to how HiFi should sound just before the dividing line beyond which the system tries to substitute for reality."

Very acute observation Max.

G

Massimo Bertola posted:

Mike,

I'm playing John Tilbury's recording of John Cage's Sonatas and interludes for prepared piano just now, and I must say that having owned Naim systems that sounded charming and mannered (CD5/Nait5/n-Sats) and systems that sounded like a fight in a pub (the first day of my first XPS.2 on my first CDX2), I find the current one having a miraculous balance between clarity, smoothness and immediacy. It's mostly due to the DR part of the PSUs, I'm sure, but to my ears this level of detail and 'domesticity', combined, is very close to how HiFi should sound just before the dividing line beyond which the system tries to substitute for reality.

Best

M 

I love those analogies, Max. 

Mike

Stover posted:

My wife once said, hi-fi business only have one thing in mind, "that you should never be satisfied with your system". There is always something out there, better clarity, more insightful. This will never end. You get some, you miss others, that's my experience. 

Have a listen for yourself within what`s available. Judging from the replies here which I look at as very predictable and be aware, not necessarily to your taste, room, speakers etc.

Enjoy, 

Smart wife! 

Allante93! 

mackb3 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Hi John, Mark, Roberto,

my dealer has an ex-dem 282 that's been on the shelf way too long. I'll go and have a talk with him, but first a relaxed home demo.

Thanks

Max

Max good stuff. The 282 is a timeless classic along with the 252 and 552 whilst other  fads come and go, you can't really go wrong with them. Enjoy the demo.... 

Simon

 

+1. Owned a SN1...great piece with excellent boogie factor although a bit grainy. Own a SN2... excellent amp with more refinement. Own 282/250.2...in another league altogether. Get demo pieces with warranty and save a bundle with zero regrets.

A SN1 sounding a bit grainy? Not at all trough my Allaes!

This has been an interesting journey to follow and I am pleased to see that you are satisfied with the outcome, Max. Given the changes you have made I am not surprised you are concentrating on the amps, but as a fellow CDS3 owner I wouldn't discount its contribution on the improvements you are hearing.

Happy listening!

Clive 

Interesting journey Max! Enjoy your newly rediscovered system.

Sorry for this hijack, but one reply in particular drew my attention (en die van jou Robin!)

mackb3 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

............

.......... 

+1. Owned a SN1...great piece with excellent boogie factor although a bit grainy. Own a SN2... excellent amp with more refinement. Own 282/250.2...in another league altogether. Get demo pieces with warranty and save a bundle with zero regrets.

Mackb3 could you please elaborate?

In what way was your supernait grainy? I too have experienced some grainyness in my system with the supernait in place, but this could well be the source(material) which is to blame. I know one thing for a fact. It was never apparent before.

SMAUG,

I used grainy describe the difference between the SN1 and 2 regarding improved noise floor with the SN2. The type of music I noticed it most was classical. Adding a HICAP improved it but more so on the SN2. Probably the DR rail in the SN2 and removal of the DAC all contribute. I did hear slightly better boogie-factor in the SN1 but SN2 is better defined and a clearer window to the music. Both are excellent but now I have the 282/250.2 and at a different level. Soon to upgrade the 250.2 to DR.

Hope this helps.