Nait2 upgrade to Supernait1?

Posted by: Yetizone on 15 February 2016

Hi folks.

I’m seriously thinking of switching my old CB Naim 2 in my office system for a more modern integrated amp. A 2nd hand Supernait MK1 being at the top of the list, although, I am open minded about exploring other avenues. The new unit must have either an iOS remote control app or a dedicated independent remote - important as the amp has been located out of arms reach after an office redecoration. Funds limit the switch to the first SN version only i’m afraid. But in time a Hi-Cap (DR?) may follow.

My main aim is a more powerful amp to have a little more lower register grip and provide more current to open up the possibility of a wider range of speakers that require a more muscular amp to drive them adequately. Plus to cure the slightly harsh sibilant treble at higher volumes.

As I’ll have to be buying used without an audition, there is an element of risk, so would appreciate any pointers that the more experienced Naim owners could impart - who have perhaps compared both amps.

So what can I expect to gain when going from the old timer Nait 2 to the SN1? Observations welcome.

For ref, the system is decidedly old and new school as outlined.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by b_lund

Yetizone posted:

So what can I expect to gain when going from the old timer Nait 2 to the SN1? Observations welcome.

Going from one of the best sounding Naim amplifiers to "not their finest hour" (IMO) I'd rather keep what you have maximize the source, support and speakers in use.

Sorry but should you need more juice just try the 5i or XS amp if thinking Black box or better yet (maybe) think 140/72 110/62 the like

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Christopher_M

Try Linn Kans on the Kan wall brackets, and with the existing Nait 2. Admittedly this doesn't meet your demands for remote control.

Chris

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by gary yeowell

Two ends of the scale in terms of music. Tread carefully.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Yetizone

Thanks for the observations - much appreciated. Interesting responses! I hadn’t realised the SN1 was not in the same league as the Nait2? Would the Supernait 2 be up in the running? Could wait and save a little longer perhaps.

Kans: Interesting thought, although I question the Nait2’s ability to drive them adequately. Last time I heard Kan’s they were on the end of a pair of 135’s. I thought they were interesting, if flawed. Always assumed a NAP250 was mandatory?

Perhaps the options would / could be speaker and source changes?

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Marksnaim

Kans will definitely work with a Nait1. They did for me anyway.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by gary yeowell

Kans can work extremely well with a Nait2, but the room size and construction is key to their performance. A solid outside wall is the best, no flimsy partition stuff. Your Kan wall brackets are fantastic, and possibly even better than Kan2 stands, especially if the latter are on a suspended floor. Kans and Nait love an LP12, but can sound great on a very good digital source.

Consider a service on the Nait2 if it's not been done in the last 10-15 years. A 250 does fill out the Kans, but you may lose a little magic along the way, but the room is key. When the stars align, a well driven pair of Kans, suitably fronted, are an absolute joy. When poorly installed, they can strip paint from the walls.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by ChrisSU

I would be tempted to try a DAC upgrade (maybe V1 or Hugo) and a service for the Nait if it's due.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Christopher_M

MA R252s on Kan wall brackets struck me as a tad odd. I found it simpler to mention the obvious :-)

As Gary says, it's all in the room, and the setup.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by The Strat (Fender)

Urm - yeah I'm in the better ways to achieve an upgrade camp on this one. If you needed an integated with DAC then I could possibly see the benefit otherwise not really.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by J.N.

Nait 2 to SN1 would be a definite backward step, sonically. Beware the apparent 'bargain'. Stuff is generally attractively priced for a reason.

A SN2 or a Nait XS is a different kettle of fish, but one needs always to tread carefully and listen (preferably at home) before making a financial commitment. You could end up going with your '2' as the pick of the bunch.

Good luck.

John.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Mike-B

J.N. posted:
Nait 2 to SN1 would be a definite backward step, sonically.

I disagree with that.

Yes the Nait-2 is has an exciting presentation, & considering its only about 20 watts, it punches above its weight. But it is underpowered for all but the easiest load speakers, monochromatic in tone & its sound stage is much the same - mono.

I own both & have used the Nait in the Supernait's place. Exciting & fun, but when the SN went back, then you hear what the Nait doesn't do.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by gary yeowell

I also own a Nait2 along with a SN2, and have owned a SN1. My feelings are very much in line with JN.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by cat345

I think you would like the SN1 for many reasons including the fact that it has an integrated dac. If you can get one at a good price just buy it. Keep the Nait2 somewhere around in case you feel nostalgic and remember that it's trading value is going up faster than mutual funds.

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Brilliant

^Keep the Nait 2 somewhere around - good advice.

It is true that lack of drive current can limit its micro dynamics and 'bloom' and also sound 'hard' on some speakers. A little more powered amp could help in such a case. Otherwise, with highly resolving and efficient ones - it is hard to 'upgrade' !

maintenance tip: Once a year or so - Turn it off and wait a few minutes . Unplug it from the power. Open the unit & very carefully unplug and re-plug the three transformer wire connectors feeding the board to 'refresh' the contacts. Reassemble, plug & play and be amazed once again!

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by wenger2015

Had the SN 1, I have nothing bad to say about it, an exceptional piece of kit, and their are plenty of bargains to be had....it's a win win situation

Posted on: 15 February 2016 by Mark J

My feelings are very much in line with Mike-B and like him I own a Nait 2 and a SN1

The little Nait has great charm but with amplifiers there is no substitute for power. Power is good.

Having said that I'm not sure I'd want to listen to the SN on a daily basis without the attached HiCap

YMMV etc

Mark

Posted on: 16 February 2016 by Yetizone

Again, many thanks for all of the observations - very helpful indeed :-)

Kans: Mmmm..? i’m just not so sure. Even on the end of 135’s as I mentioned, I wasn’t blown away by them - it seems that the planets had to align, a good recording played, optimum set up and source for it all to sound good. A little unforgiving perhaps. I remember the owner then switching over to his Naim IBL’s and I thought thy were much much better than the Kan's. Alas, I have no space for floor standers ��

Sound Org Brackets & MA252: Yes, an unorthodox approach, but it works. Previously used the SO brackets under my Rega Kytes (now in an AV system). When the 252’s were first demo'd (a century ago it seems) the dealer had them right back against the rear wall on Heybrook HB1 stands (still have them). I had to make a 25mm MDF plinth to the same dimensions as the 252 base, then machined bolted this to the threaded spike holes. Spikes then fitted to the bottom of the 252’s. As mentioned, this is an office system, and being a working space there have to be some compromises.

Supernait: I’m just going to have to try and listen to one before I commit I think. The local dealer (AudioT) only stocks the new SN2, so at least I could get an idea of what that unit sounds like.

Nait2: It has’n’t been serviced as yet, so that could be a starting point. Its not going anywhere just yet!

Amps outside of Naim have risen an eyebrow too - sacrilege I know �� ! I have looked beyond the green glow before, but have always returned! Specifically this time, the Hegel range (H160), so I may start to explore a little further afield and not rush into making a decision just yet on the SN.

I’ve also been looking at the new Naim Pre Amp / Streamers as well. They raised an eyebrow of possibility, but the combined cost of Pre / Power extend beyond my current budget sadly. Plus multiple box count too.

Lots to think about!

Posted on: 16 February 2016 by Massimo Bertola

Yetizone posted:
I hadn’t realised the SN1 was not in the same league as the Nait2?

Hi,

with all due respect for anyone's opinion, this is a matter of, er, opinion. I have a SN1 and although there are times when I'd love a little more air and colour, there are other times - tonight, for instance - when I wonder at what cost my system would sound significantly better..

I have once owned a 42.5/SNAPS/140 along with my first SN, and I compared them with my last pair of N-Sats; and to these ears, much as the CB combo was fresh, lively, 'engaging' (whatever this may mean), there was no game when control, authority, power and correctness of timbres were considered. I found the CB combo fun for half an hour, but in the long run the SN was superior. I would be wondering what Naim has been doing for the last 30 years if it were not so.

My opinion only.

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by Fox

Consider a Nait XS. Tried Nait XS and Nait 2 driving a pair of C20, the Nait XS is more composed when playing from moderate to loud. Nait 2 is rather short of power, in my opinion. Besides, Nait XS has a remote control.

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by Yetizone

Fox - A Nait XS, that could be a viable option. I have to admit that I thought the ‘full fat’ SuperN would have been the better solution though? I agree, the Nait can run out of steam, but at low volumes it does work very well. C20? Are they Kudos speakers?

Max - Having limited experience of the range of newer Naim black boxes, opinion is exactly what I’m after, so many thanks for your help. Your description of the SN1 performance sounds tempting I must say. Referencing your other thread, why are you considering switching if it sounds so good!

Gathering as much input as possible, I’ll hopefully be able to make an informed decision. Always trickier when buying used as opposed to buying new and the luxury of a demonstration. Ideal situation would be a local dealer who had a used SN1 to compare to the SN2! :-) At least if the decision is a disaster, the unit can be sold on for minimal loss.

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by Massimo Bertola

Yetizone posted:
Max - Having limited experience of the range of newer Naim black boxes, opinion is exactly what I’m after, so many thanks for your help. Your description of the SN1 performance sounds tempting I must say. Referencing your other thread, why are you considering switching if it sounds so good!

To be honest, last night and the night before that I played some music, and I must say that something has definitely settled for the best inside the system, because it sounds really, really good. I have no experience of other systems with much better gear than mine, safe for Roberto's, so I don't really have terms of comparison; I can say, though, that my first SN sounded a little different, a little greyer perhaps, maybe less dynamic and lucid; I am beginning to suspect that running in is a long term reality for amps, meaning that they occasionally need to play loud just like cars need to run, or else they risk 'growing' dull. This SN was 2nd hand, and it must have been used more 'heavily' than my first one, because it seems to sound better...

Best

max

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by Fox

Hi Yetizone,

Yes it is a Kudos C20 that I'd tested with. As music gets less compress, one tends to turn up the volume more. With that, I can hear that Nait 2 struggles, however, Nait XS remains in control.

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by b_lund

Yetizone posted:

Supernait: I’m just going to have to try and listen to one before I commit I think. The local dealer (AudioT) only stocks the new SN2, so at least I could get an idea of what that unit sounds like.

You could but mind you SN1 & SN2 are soundwise different worlds alltogether, their name closest

I'll second the XS recommendations around here, makes the SN1 a quite synthetic experience

Posted on: 17 February 2016 by Magnus Hultstrand

gary yeowell posted:
I also own a Nait2 along with a SN2, and have owned a SN1. My feelings are very much in line with JN.

Me too.. But I have to disagree. I love the Nait2, but the SN1 is better in every way. And the SN2 is even better :-)

Posted on: 21 February 2016 by WTCRP

Mark J posted:
My feelings are very much in line with Mike-B and like him I own a Nait 2 and a SN1
The little Nait has great charm but with amplifiers there is no substitute for power. Power is good.
Having said that I'm not sure I'd want to listen to the SN on a daily basis without the attached HiCap
YMMV etc
Mark

Power is only to assist with inefficient transducers who need a shot of viagra for working properly. Power has nothing to do with musicality. Match the Nait 2 with good source and efficient transducers and stop listening with the eyes.