Tidal (reliable), Qobuz and UPNP streaming all in one control App via Lumin & BubbleUPNP

Being able to also listen to Qobuz as they also offer high res would be a great option. Can I also install this when using a NAS only solution with a Melco - does anybody know ?

According to Bubblesoftapps website they do a version for NAS - don't know if anyone on here has used it though ?

BTW I have also had no discovery issues using this system - Muso & SU are always picked up straightaway by Lumin. This is unlike the Naim app where I get the dreaded turning wheel / "no rooms found" quite often - which I had put down to my relatively poor wifi implementation.

Borders Nick posted:

According to Bubblesoftapps website they do a version for NAS - don't know if anyone on here has used it though ?

BTW I have also had no discovery issues using this system - Muso & SU are always picked up straightaway by Lumin. This is unlike the Naim app where I get the dreaded turning wheel / "no rooms found" quite often - which I had put down to my relatively poor wifi implementation.

It could be me being stupid but I cannot get the Lumin app to detect my UQ2. I have used bubblesoft with no issues but would rather use iPad. 

Did you simply connect via the settings wheel at the top right corner and then select a music library option?

Thanks

Sam

Sam

Don't know if I made it clear but you need to have Bubble upnp installed and running on your PC then Lumin should see the UQ.  I have copied Blenheims original post below.  The whole thing was dead easy & only took 10 minutes or so to install.

Nick

blenheim posted:
I have had ongoing problems with dropouts on Tidal through the Naim app on the Mu-so since last November. My local music library is stored on a mac-mini so last month I installed Bubble UPNP server on the mac-mini. Through Bubble UPNP the Mu-so is made available as an Openhome renderer in the network. I am now using the Lumin app as the control point to stream Tidal to the Mu-so an the stream is buffered by Bubble UPNP on the mac mini.

I have had no dropouts at all with this setup and I find the Lumin app to be quite enjoyable to use. I would still hope that Naim will be able to solve the problem, however the above works for me for now.

Blenheim

Nick

Thanks for clarifying. I thought Lumin functioned in the Sam way as Bubbleupnp.

Thanks

Sam

@ssmith: The essentials for making Naim streamers visible to OpenHome control points are:

1) Lumin, BubbleUPnP (only Android!), Linn Kazoo / Kinsky (iOS, Android,..), Audionet (iOS, ...), etc. are, among others, OpenHome control points

2) BubbleUPnP Server (not BubbleUPnP!) is a software that can be used, among others, to turn UPnP renderers (like, for instance, Naim streamers) into OpenHome renderers. It runs on Unixes, Windows, OS X, Android ... please see http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/

3) In order to make a Naim renderer visible to an OpenHome control point, you need to do 2 things: a) install BubbleUPnP Server on a computer (ideally, steadily) connected to your LAN and b) in a browser, open http://192.168.178.2:58050/#main (replace 192.168.178.2 with the IP address of the machine running your BubbleUPnP Server instance), select your Naim streamer in the "Media Renderers" tab and check the "Create an OpenHome renderer" button. You find detailed installation and configuration instructions in the link above.  One point that is perhaps worth pointing out, is that you will likely have to open ports 58050-58051 for the machine that runs your BubbleUPnP Server instance in your router's configuration.

At this point, you should be able to see your Naim streamer in the Lumin app. The combination BubbleUPnP / BubbleUPnP Server is very flexible and basically allows one to build and control an OpenHome infrastructure from existing UPnP (but not OpenHome) devices. For instance, I run BubbleUPnP Server on the Raspberry Pi which I use to connect to my LAN remotely. I have set BubbleUPnP Server to present a Chromecast Audio renderer (connected to an old radio in the kitchen) as an OpenHome renderer. This allows me to stream from the Pi (to which I have attached a 4TB external HDD with, among others, a copy of by music collection) to the Chromecast Audio and, in fact, to every mobile device connected to the LAN and running BubbleUPnP.

For instructions from the BubbleUPnP (and BubbleUPnP Server) author on how to use Lumin (or any other OpenHome control point) to stream to a Chromecast Audio device (or a Naim streamer), please see http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=32448

Best, nbpf

I use this approach with a QNAP NAS and a Melco in USB DAC mode with Linn Kazoo as the control point (have tried Lumin app but don't like the constant library caching on the iPad), Tidal and Qobuz work fine...

Aurender have recently updated their s/w to support Qobuz. Tidal was already supported.

This sounds like an interesting alternative to the Mac Mini or Aries Mini we've been discussing in another thread. I don't completely understand it, but am willing to have a play. However, I have no Android devices - can I still make this work in a totally Mac/iOS environment?

Hello,

I also use the BubbleUPNP-Server on a Raspberry Pi - and it work´s fine with my 172xs.

On the Pi there Is also Jriver running, both are controlled by iPad3 without any problems (JRemote and/or Lumin). Qobuz work´s Fine in Lumin-APP.

There Are also packages of BubbleUPNP-Server for Synology and QNAP, but I haven´t Test this.

Goon525 posted:

This sounds like an interesting alternative to the Mac Mini or Aries Mini we've been discussing in another thread. I don't completely understand it, but am willing to have a play. However, I have no Android devices - can I still make this work in a totally Mac/iOS environment?

Yes, I also do not have an Android device at the moment. You can install the Lumin application and the Linn Kazoo or Kinsky applications for iOS. I have them running on my wife's three years old iPad. They are not perfect but they work. Kinsky is not further developed, I believe, and Kazoo is still in beta testing. These three applications are perhaps not as advanced as BubbleUPnP which, however, is only available for Android. It is the never ending story between Apple and Google which leads to more or less impermeable ecosystems: there is virtually no iOS application that can stream to a Chromecast Audio renderer (but, by turning such renderer into an OpenHome renderer via BubbleUPnP Server, every OpenHome compatible iOS control point will do the job!) and, I guess, the other way round. BubbleUPnp is extremely flexible but also not perfect, of course. I am not a fan of iOS (on the contrary, I very much dislike this OS) but I have bought a Google Pixel C last month (essentially to run BubbleUPnP and streaming high resolution concerts) and returned it one week later because of its broken wireless performance. For what I could see during the time I had the Pixel C, Android is not better than iOS and, in a few aspects, even worse. I have been beta testing Linn Kazoo and I am now trying to contribute towards improving this application with issue reports on specific bugs (on the Linn forum). Kazoo is open source but the development is in Linn's hands. My hope is that it will evolve into a flexible and well designed OpenHome control point. But, so far, development has been quite slow. It is really a pity that Naim has missed the opportunity of making its control point open source and got stuck in its own proprietary standards. Best, nbpf

Excuse my ignorance, but should there be any difference in sound quality between the Naim App connecting directly to MinimServer and using Kazoo with BubbleUPnP connecting to MinimServer?  MinimServer is running on a MacBook Pro and the renderer is my SU.  Attractions of Kazoo are the desktop app and Qobuz.

I realise now that the control software shouldn't have an affect on SQ, but straight MinimServer sounds slightly better to me than BubbleUPnP + MinimServer.  Or is this psychological?

One question regarding streaming from qobuz via lumin (iOS) or BubbleUPnP (Android) via BubbleUPnP server: is it possible to stream hires music with qobuz sublim? I am currently testing the whole setup with lumin by sreaming my purchases from qobuz. But they are only streamed as flac in 44.1kHz instead 48 or 96!?

Thanks

Gert

I don't understand why this is proving so difficult, Audirvana introduced Qobuz and then Tidal across the space of a couple of months and they both integrated and worked beautifully.  SQ on Tidal in particular is superb.  

In answer to Border Nick and Tom539's questions, I have been running both BubbleUPNP Server and MinimServer on QNAP NAS for the past six months, and both have proven rock solid reliable.

I've not tried Lumin because I don't have IOS. Instead, I use mostly BubbleUPNP on Android to control a plethora of OpenHome renderers, including a Naim Muso with several Chromecast Audio's and a Home Group thrown in just for fun. BubbleUPNP is everything that a control  point should be as far as I'm concerned; even gapless flac works flawlessly with the latest Muso firmware. My only frustration is that for some reason Naim has chosen to implement seek to time in a non-standard way, so fast forward or backward in Bubble doesn't work. I do hope this gets fixed sometime soon. 

Otherwise, I have nothing but praise for BubbleUPnP.

dayjay posted:

I don't understand why this is proving so difficult, Audirvana introduced Qobuz and then Tidal across the space of a couple of months and they both integrated and worked beautifully.  SQ on Tidal in particular is superb.  

Fuly agree!

dayjay posted:

I don't understand why this is proving so difficult, Audirvana introduced Qobuz and then Tidal across the space of a couple of months and they both integrated and worked beautifully.  SQ on Tidal in particular is superb.  

What do you mean? You do not understand that naim does not integrate Qobuz support? Or don't you understand that I do not simply buy Audirvana hardware?

Greetings

Gert

naimsayer posted:

I've not tried Lumin because I don't have IOS. Instead,

LUMIN is now available on android if you fancy a play:
https://play.google.com/store/...troller&hl=en_GB

One problem I've found with Lumin is that it uses up a lot of space on my iPad/iPhone.  Linn Kazoo works well with Tidal, Qobuz and BubbleUPnP, and has the advantage of a desktop app.

ChrisByrd posted:

One problem I've found with Lumin is that it uses up a lot of space on my iPad/iPhone.

That's a side-effect of the fact that it stores the cover art (and other data) on the browsing device. This speeds up loading and responsiveness and allows the lovely cover-art views that people appreciate, but the larger your library, the more room it takes up.

thingswelike posted

LUMIN is now available on android if you fancy a play:
https://play.google.com/store/...troller&hl=en_GB

Thanks, good to know! I've just installed LUMIN on android and given it a quick whirl....

My first impression is that it still has a long way to go to beat BubbleUPnP on Android - stability needs to be drastically improved (crashed repeatedly on me) but the album artist view with cover art is nice. YMMV.

thingswelike posted:

ChrisByrd posted:

One problem I've found with Lumin is that it uses up a lot of space on my iPad/iPhone.

That's a side-effect of the fact that it stores the cover art (and other data) on the browsing device. This speeds up loading and responsiveness and allows the lovely cover-art views that people appreciate, but the larger your library, the more room it takes up.

Thanks - I'd not fully appreciated this.  It's not such a problem on my iPad, but the iPhone is a bit short of space. One thing I much prefer in Lumin over Kazoo, is the play queue display - Kazoo pushes this over to the right, so most of the track names are truncacted to the point of being useless.

gert posted:

One question regarding streaming from qobuz via lumin (iOS) or BubbleUPnP (Android) via BubbleUPnP server: is it possible to stream hires music with qobuz sublim? I am currently testing the whole setup with lumin by sreaming my purchases from qobuz. But they are only streamed as flac in 44.1kHz instead 48 or 96!?

Thanks

Gert

You can change the Qobuz max audio quality in BubbleUPnP Server's Renderers tab, then select the renderer you want to change. There's a setting for that. Hi-res streaming only apply to your purchases.

Basically, Bubble UPnP Server functions as a service translation proxy to convert your Naim streaming devices (in their UPnP guise) into OpenHome-compatible (i.e., Linn-style) devices. I have not tried the NAS version, nor have I tried gapless playback / hi-res. There are also other manufacturers using this workaround....