500 DR upgrade time

I am not at all sure that you should avoid the chance to listen to much better replay equipment than you can afford. 

It will not make your own less exalted system sound worse, and indeed the biggest risk is going to real concerts. 

At a live concert one is confronted by the simple fact that even the most expensive replay is nothing even remotely like real!

The gulf in realism between relatively modest replay and the most expensive is tiny compared to the difference between the most expensive replay and a live concert.

My advice is to retain self-control and take every opportunity to audition the state of the art in replay, even if this is nothing more than a useful addition to your experiences of replay. 

For example I have auditioned Ovator S800s. A thoroughly useful day indeed! I learned a lot, and learning something new each day is what keeps us alive and mentally active!

Best wishes from George

Nick in my interpretation, but DB is referring to the older 300, not the 300 DR.

I have actually compared my 250 DR to a NAP 500, and do hear what the NAP 500 does, but then my 250 DR costs a lot less money, and after a quite a few days, I've forgotten about that comparison and life goes back to normal.

I agree, George.  I always enjoy listening to different systems. And listening to very high-end stuff is especially interesting.  The risky bit is listening to kit that you know you could afford if you can justify it. That's where self-control gets really tested.  Just going through another of those trials myself. 

George Fredrik Fiske posted:

I am not at all sure that you should avoid the chance to listen to much better replay equipment than you can afford. 

It will not make your own less exalted system sound worse, and indeed the biggest risk is going to real concerts. 

At a live concert one is confronted by the simple fact that even the most expensive replay is nothing even remotely like real!

The gulf in realism between relatively modest replay and the most expensive is tiny compared to the difference between the most expensive replay and a live concert.

My advice is to retain self-control and take every opportunity to audition the state of the art in replay, even if this is nothing more than a useful addition to your experiences of replay. 

For example I have auditioned Ovator S800s. A thoroughly useful day indeed! I learned a lot, and learning something new each day is what keeps us alive and mentally active!

Best wishes from George

 

Unfortunately not everybody has self control be they potential addicts or audiophiles. 

Do we really know our own true selves?   Just posing the question.

I don't disagree with what you or MDS say, but some are more vulnerable than others. Hey this is getting a bit heavy. 

Nowadays it is much easier to enjoy music on much more reasonable budgets.

was there anything like QB 30 years ago, a full Naim system for 600 GBP?

Of course it is still a lot of money, but good quality does cost money.

Dear MDS,

I do believe that you have hit on the most risky scenario! If you “could afford it” but had not really considered it as a pressing wish, then indeed it might be tempting to go a different route and different timing not original intended or planned! 

I suppose that in one respect I am rather lucky. I could not afford to buy the quality of replay I have now again! 

Thus the only temptation is to rush the few enhancements I have in mind, but I am sure that I shall not! 

Yesterday I was working on a friend’s fifty year old [roughly, who knows quite how old such things are?] Claud Butler bike. 

Lovely thing, on its back on the floor in front of my ESL having open bottom bracket surgery, from which it came back to consciousness with true brilliance immediately it was turned back onto its wheels! My friend’s jaw hitting the floor over what a fifty year old speaker can achieve even in mono!

And he claims not to like classical music, so I played the Cuckoo and the Nightingale Organ Concerto by Handel, which can capture the heart of the most hardened metalista or even folk-music aficionado!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN1qAwqfsYU

Replay is essentially about enjoying what is possible, and many things govern the possibilities!

Best wishes from George

analogmusic posted:

I have actually compared my 250 DR to a NAP 500, and do hear what the NAP 500 does, but then my 250 DR costs a lot less money, and after a quite a few days, I've forgotten about that comparison and life goes back to normal.

 

This. Us folks have very high quality systems that sound terrific. There'll always be better sounds to obtain, but audio memory tends to be pretty short. It doesn't take me long at all to readjust to my boring old system, but then again, let's not pretend we don't enjoy spending money on this hobby we enjoy so much.

Live performances? Yes, can be very nice but can also be enormously disappointing and stressful. Sitting back in the comfort of my  own room and revelling in the music does me just fine!

Morning John/Michael -

Can I ask, how go the respective beasts?

'Mike has a 'Coldplay' album on CD which was hitherto, pretty much unlistenable.' ......most of them

Phil

Phil I am now into day 12 since switch on and have had a pretty smooth ride thus far, with no really awful dips in performance, perhaps just  a slight wobble on day 2 with a thickness of sound. Bear in mind that unlike J.N. I just had the 500 itself upgraded as my power supply was serviced just three years ago so I had no run in of that to factor in. Since day three the 500 DR has just gradually opened up with a cleaner and more detailed sound, more weight in the bass but very well controlled. The best way I can think of to put it into words is to say that the mist has cleared! It still seems to be improving as a few more hours of listening are added each day, for how much longer who knows, it will be interesting.

If I had to pick out some outstanding features I would say  first;y the quality of vocals is improved with more presence and emotion, you really can hear when a vocalist is singing with a smile on their face, secondly the way pianos and strings are portrayed is so natural the best I have ever heard and thirdly percussion, right through  from a ting on a triangle or delicate brush strokes on a snare drum to the loudest rim-shots and bass drums... simply wonderful. The other thing I am getting a is a sense of 3D depth to the soundstage when listening to a small jazz combo for example. Of course there is all the usual upgrade stuff going on as well, tracks that I have known and loved for fifty years are heard anew with little details hitherto unnoticed coming to light.

Another thing I am noticing is that the DR amps are controlling modern compressed recordings much better, revealing more of the music. I always go back to Coldplay albums, when their music gets busy things got rather nasty on my old 500 with hiline and NAC A5 cable on my NBLS, with the DR amp and Super Lumina cabling things are much improved and the instruments and vocals don't get lost in the fog.

Lastly how is the vinyl department shaping up? Ahhhhh..................  say no more!!! 

Michael -  thank you. It sounds like the NAP500 mark 2 has arrived in spades. I'm awaiting a call to deliver my c.2007 model for service and DR-ing.

I'm enjoying vinyl more and more, especially the older jazz and alike. As good as a 555 is, there is something 'so right' about jazz on vinyl. I'm thinking on an LP12 upgrade but the numbers are adding up.

As to compressed recordings, it seems like I will need to give my one and only Whitney Houston CD a spin in due course. At the moment, it sounds like radio replay (very poor FM). No comment on the content of course.

Phil

Michael posted:

 

Another thing I am noticing is that the DR amps are controlling modern compressed recordings much better, revealing more of the music. I always go back to Coldplay albums, when their music gets busy things got rather nasty on my old 500 with hiline and NAC A5 cable on my NBLS, with the DR amp and Super Lumina cabling things are much improved and the instruments and vocals don't get lost in the fog.

Interesting. Thus far the only way of playing highly compressed/loud music was in the car or on a MuSo. Can the 500-DR now pull this off? Wow! That's a huge development and one that sadly, I have plenty of music to try it on. Increased bass weight doesn't sound like such a good thing, but if controlled with the usual (or improved) 500 grip, may be nothing to worry about.

Michael, I await with bated breath the opportunity to hear whether the (nasty, whining, annoyingly tiresome; oops have I given away my opinion) Coldplay can ever sound any good! 

Three weeks into DR'd and (PS) serviced 500 here. The combo is sounding better and better as time passes. In simple terms I heard enhanced clarity/transparency/layering/sound-stage from the start. A week or so in, more weight/solidity arrived and in the last few days, even better clarity/transparency/resolution of detail has become evident with the weight and solidity under better control. The sound is deliciously clean with a sense of the music being 'presented' as opposed to 'projected'. There is a lovely unstressed ease to the sound.

One of the really nice aspects of the new DR sound signature (to which Mike alluded) is the way in which it seems to deal more effectively with newer digital recordings. I've noticed this particularly on the two 'Public Service Broadcasting' CD's which are now giving up more information and delivering a generally nicer sound.

I am of the opinion that 'old Naim' tends to excel on older recordings and can mangle newer digital material. The DR'd amps seem to level the playing field to some extent, making everything sound better. I hesitate to use the heretical phrase, but I'm now hearing my Naim system do more of the 'Round Earth' stuff.

Yeah; I know - Burn the witch!

John.

Oh dear Nick, Coldplay and an LP12 how will you endure a visit? !!!

Michael posted:

Oh dear Nick, Coldplay and an LP12 how will you endure a visit? !!!

Well Mike, I can handle a bit of Coldplay, so bring it on....;-)

Good to hear your new amp is running in nicely, I very much look forward to meeting up and having a good listening session next weekend, oh and I just might bring some Jazz on vinyl along.....sorry John ;-)

ATB

Rob.

J.N. posted:

Three weeks into DR'd and (PS) serviced 500 here. The combo is sounding better and better as time passes. In simple terms I heard enhanced clarity/transparency/layering/sound-stage from the start. A week or so in, more weight/solidity arrived and in the last few days, even better clarity/transparency/resolution of detail has become evident with the weight and solidity under better control. The sound is deliciously clean with a sense of the music being 'presented' as opposed to 'projected'. There is a lovely unstressed ease to the sound.

One of the really nice aspects of the new DR sound signature (to which Mike alluded) is the way in which it seems to deal more effectively with newer digital recordings. I've noticed this particularly on the two 'Public Service Broadcasting' CD's which are now giving up more information and delivering a generally nicer sound.

I am of the opinion that 'old Naim' tends to excel on older recordings and can mangle newer digital material. The DR'd amps seem to level the playing field to some extent, making everything sound better. I hesitate to use the heretical phrase, but I'm now hearing my Naim system do more of the 'Round Earth' stuff.

Yeah; I know - Burn the witch!

John.

Great post John, and very interesting thread.

Sat here listening to my system and really enjoying it. Don't feel the urge to do anything, tweak or spend.....until i read posts like this John. My wife would very much like a word with you!!!!

It's taken an age and really happy with my system...even the S600's doing a sterling job. Not sure what has happened, whether it be the SL loom has very much run in and brought everything together. So I'm in no rush to DR the 500.

I will be very interested to read Harry's thoughts as well when his returns. And then my wife will want a word with him as well which won't be the first time!!!!

By the way, who is Coldplay!!!!

"By the way, who is Coldplay!!!!"

A contemporary popular beat combo who were (successfully) sued by Joe Satriani for musical plagiarism.

John.

Are we saying you get to play lots of Coldplay only when DR upgrade has been done? John, how much have you been playing!!!!!

J.N. posted:

"By the way, who is Coldplay!!!!"

A contemporary popular beat combo who were (successfully) sued by Joe Satriani for musical plagiarism.

John.

That makes sense, as every song of theirs sounds exactly the same. 

Dustysox posted:

Are we saying you get to play lots of Coldplay only when DR upgrade has been done? John, how much have you been playing!!!!!

No Coldplay here Darren. It's my friend Michael with the sonically testing Coldplay material.

John.

Michael posted:

Oh dear Nick, Coldplay and an LP12 how will you endure a visit? !!!

The LP12 is absolutely fine, it is simply a different, but equally valid, source component. However, Coldplay.........a bit like Tiny Tim, but without his musical authority and pedigree! 

J.N. posted:

Three weeks into DR'd and (PS) serviced 500 here. The combo is sounding better and better as time passes. In simple terms I heard enhanced clarity/transparency/layering/sound-stage from the start. A week or so in, more weight/solidity arrived and in the last few days, even better clarity/transparency/resolution of detail has become evident with the weight and solidity under better control. The sound is deliciously clean with a sense of the music being 'presented' as opposed to 'projected'. There is a lovely unstressed ease to the sound.

John.

This is exactly how I would describe the changes the DR upgrade made to my 300. I have done too much else to the system to be tracking what has happened over the 2/3 weeks since it reappeared in the system, and I suspect that the 552 is uncovering a lot if inner detail and transparency, but at the moment and until the next upgrade bug bites the DR upgrade is delivering pure delight (and from a lowly 300!).

A week's delay from Naim before mine will come back, apparently. Have to say the loan 250.2 (non DR) isn't at all bad in the meantime. John, interested  in your PSB comments; The Race for Space is my current "most played", recently got it on vinyl as well as CD I liked it so much. Just ordered the previous album and EP too for good measure. Will have to make it a main test item when the 500 DR is back, along with my standard test of  "Adam's Song" by Blink 182, which I've always found to have a mushy passage in it of which I'm stilling seeking resolution. Just got a vinyl US import of the Enema of the State album and it's better than the CD on the loan 250, but still room for improvement...

Neil

Neil Bennett posted:

Will have to make it a main test item when the 500 DR is back, along with my standard test of  "Adam's Song" by Blink 182, which I've always found to have a mushy passage in it of which I'm stilling seeking resolution.

Interesting you use that track... I often use 'Mutt' which I feel has a tendency to sound congested in places. Still, 'Enema of the State' is one of my all time favourite albums

I have swerved the DR upgrade and service to my 300 in favour of my dealers ex dem NAP500 non DR whoops!  so i guess i will have all this fun to look forward to somewhere down the line

Nagual posted:

I have swerved the DR upgrade and service to my 300 in favour of my dealers ex dem NAP500 non DR whoops!  so i guess i will have all this fun to look forward to somewhere down the line

Depending on the deal you got, then the old NAP500 still clearly outperforms a NAP300DR in my opinion, but the latter closes the gap between them. The new NAP500DR is clearly a lot better to the old NAP500 too, so the DR upgrade has moved both designs upwards in performance.

To get the best out of you NAP500 do consider the SL speaker leads.

DB.