500 DR upgrade time
Posted by: Harry on 18 February 2016
I've just been contacted by Audience Bath to tell me that our 500 is going in next week. I will report accordingly.
Also for information. Anyone in Bath between now and the week after the Bristol show can hear the Statement amps at Audience. We're going to toddle in at some point. Fools that we are.
Amps like the NAP500 and the Statement Monoblocks use differential-drive outputs to the speaker, which means both output terminals are driven in anti-phase to deliver higher power into the speaker - and remove all 'earth return' currents from the speakers from causing distortion in the Amp's 0v referenced input stage - which can happen when you consider the very high currents driven to the speaker. So the NAP500 has something similar to two NAP300 output circuits for each channel.
But some speakers were designed for traditional 'single-ended' drive from the Amp, where one terminal is near 0v 'earth' and is passive. As to if this is due to negative voltages causing harm to the speakers - or another reason I don't know, but differential 'bridged' amplifiers are different.
DB.
Hi All, will you be able to advice if the jump from 300DR to 500DR is huge? I'm currently running a NDS/555DR/252DR/300/ATC SCM40v2 and since my 300 is very newish, I'm entitled to the DR upgrade at a reduced price. However, I'm also offered a pretty good tradein deal by my dealer to a 500DR. I'm not too sure which path to take at the moment as I've heard good things about the 500DR over the 300DR but i'm uncertain if the 252DR is able to make most out of a 500DR.
Have fun Harry,
I'm also on the (300) DR waiting list, but I'm hopping for a long wait as I've just ordered the Super Lumina interconnect and speaker cables. I need to run in the cables and recover from the financial shock :-o
Keith
Laxton Yeo posted:Hi All, will you be able to advice if the jump from 300DR to 500DR is huge? I'm currently running a NDS/555DR/252DR/300/ATC SCM40v2 and since my 300 is very newish, I'm entitled to the DR upgrade at a reduced price. However, I'm also offered a pretty good tradein deal by my dealer to a 500DR. I'm not too sure which path to take at the moment as I've heard good things about the 500DR over the 300DR but i'm uncertain if the 252DR is able to make most out of a 500DR.
depends what the deal is, but I have compared (using a 552 preamp) 250DR to 500 (non DR) and the 500 is still very very special and has the "live sound". I was hugely impressed how much better the 500 was compared to the 250 DR.
The 552 and 500 eliminate noise completely (or very hugely nearly) from the signal earth (the 0v line - which the whole system from source to amp uses as a reference).
the 552 does this buy using a split rail power supply, and the 500 uses a bridge design.
They are the peak of Naim technology (well, until you get to statement) and if the deal is good enough, why not.
But then try to go for 552 300 DR, which will be better than 252/500 DR.
Laxton Yeo posted:Hi All, will you be able to advice if the jump from 300DR to 500DR is huge? I'm currently running a NDS/555DR/252DR/300/ATC SCM40v2 and since my 300 is very newish, I'm entitled to the DR upgrade at a reduced price. However, I'm also offered a pretty good tradein deal by my dealer to a 500DR. I'm not too sure which path to take at the moment as I've heard good things about the 500DR over the 300DR but i'm uncertain if the 252DR is able to make most out of a 500DR.
552 first - definitely.
Whether the DR-500 is worth the price premium over the DR-300 only your ears (and bank balance) can determine.
As a very happy owner of a DR'd 500, I might just stick at a DR'd 300 if I were climbing the Naim amplifier ladder now. It is that good - and the best value for money amp in the current Naim range as far as I'm concerned.
John.
Congratulations on making the jump Keith. Those SL cables are a bit savagely priced but worth it. You will be having big fun long after the pain has worn off.
I think the 300 versus 300DR versus 500 can be easily resolved by setting a budget and using your ears. Most people find the 500 compelling. I love the 300. Superb amp. It can't stand comparison to a 500 and if it could there would be something wrong with the 500. Naim are very good at this price differentiation stuff. Not surprisingly!
It's interesting that although the presentation is a little on the forward side this evening, with what I would consider to be an over emphasis on leading edges, my foot is tapping again. This hasn't happened for a few weeks. I am hearing real voices again at various heights and depths in the mix and the familiar more convincing tonality - despite the slight brightness. What appears to be new is a clearer definition of where things start and stop is also apparent. Early days.
Hi John and Analogmusic,
Thanks for your advice. I think I'll get my 300 DRed for now and stick with it for the moment. I'm not too sure about upgrading to the 552 at the moment as there seems to be some signs that naim may be refreshing the preamp line soon. I am considering getting the SL speaker cables as I heard that it's a good match with DR amps and I already have the SL interconnect.
Laxton Yeo posted:Hi All, will you be able to advice if the jump from 300DR to 500DR is huge? I'm currently running a NDS/555DR/252DR/300/ATC SCM40v2 and since my 300 is very newish, I'm entitled to the DR upgrade at a reduced price. However, I'm also offered a pretty good tradein deal by my dealer to a 500DR. I'm not too sure which path to take at the moment as I've heard good things about the 500DR over the 300DR but i'm uncertain if the 252DR is able to make most out of a 500DR.
If you intend to go with a 500DR you have to first get a 552, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. I would have rather a 552 and a 300 as compared to a 252 and a 500
Even if you don't intend to get a 500, the 552 is the way to go. It's just wonderful with the 300.
The NAP500 is night and day different to the NAP300, so I'm guessing the DR versions are the same, perhaps even night, day and a bit more.
The NAC552 is night, day and a bit more different to the NAC252.
So you know where you have to go... it's just a matter of which route to follow. For me, the preamp opportunity came up first, but in a recent 500/300 comparison, the difference was so striking that I would not hold back from making that change if the opportunity presented itself, no matter which preamp you had at the time.
Helpful ? (not) ..but the whole "source first" thought process kinda goes out the window with these boxes, in my experience.
A real aside here. Went on the Naim factory tour today and, coming from an engineering background, have always been intrigued by what exactly in under the hood of our black boxes, particularly preamps. I know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover or a bit of hi fi by looking inside. It was however reassuring to see that the real jumps in price (e.g. 252 to 552) are accompanied by a real jump in internal design, architecture and the sheer amount of components/PCBs that has clearly taken more time and money to design, develop, test and build. This of course was taken to the extreme when looking around the Statement assembly area!
You get a whole new perspective when you directly see and compare the innards of these black boxes and exactly how they are put together. If anyone needs reassuring, the degree of care, detail and skill employed at every stage of the manufacturing process is truly astonishing. The assembly and testing teams are clearly well trained and all appear to really care about what they do. Very impressive.
Laxton Yeo posted:there seems to be some signs that naim may be refreshing the preamp line soon
That's interesting. What have you heard?
Harry posted:Laxton Yeo posted:there seems to be some signs that naim may be refreshing the preamp line soon
That's interesting. What have you heard?
And from whom?
C.
Possibly unfair to reveal sources who may have spoken in confidence but sharing info, providing it's not just the bloke down the pub or wistful thinking is mostly harmless and can be instructive. I hope the source of this information is a credible one. And I'm very interested to hear the what and how of it.
Forgive me. On the newspaper I work for, "And from whom?" means 'how credible is your source?'
C.
analogmusic posted:Thanks for explanation, but If I may ask, aren't the earth return currents going back to mains earth, which is why Naim do say in the manual that the signal negative should be connected to mains earth in one (but only one) place, which is usually the Naim source like Naim CD player or streamer.It used to be the Lp12 before Naim made CD players.
The Mains Earth connection is not really an 'earth return', but more a safety earth for the cases. All power comes from live and neutral of the incoming house mains - and that is where everything eventually works itself out. If the mains earth is passing any significant current then you have a fault and you need to get it fixed! So the 'Ov' used inside all single-ended electronics is tied to the mains 'earth', usually near the low-level input signal inputs, but it has no significant current flow but just a voltage reference.
DB.
Purely speculative regarding the Preamp line refresh, based on the age of the current line of preamps at the moment. Since the 272 has some S1 technology trickled down into it, I will not be surprised if there well be a new line of preamps with even more of S1's tech in it.
I have it on good word that Naim's IC's, Powerlines and speaker cables are soon to be offered with a cryogenic upgrade. I haven't been hanging out in pubs around Salisbury, still time will tell whether my speculation has any credibility.
Fingers in ears...not listening....don't want a DR....Richard/mods please can we delete this thread!!!!!!!!!
Seriously congratulations Harry. Great read. Really pleased for you and I am really looking forward to following your journey as it would seem I always have!!! Being we have the same set up (except speakers) eat the same food, wear the same clothes etc etc!! I mean, we really seem/like the same "stuff" which is a really good thing!
So, mobile phone off, stock the fridge close the curtains and just get running the "Beast" in and enjoy. Dusty's orders for the weekend!!
Btw, it's early Saturday morning and I'm off to work to raise funds for my upgrade 
Pure speculation : maybe a 372 is coming which would combine NDS level streaming and 252 level preamp.
Maybe even a new PSU for such a machine. or maybe this machine takes XPS and Supercap !
seems many people would buy it.
I'm too happy enjoying music with my 282/250DR to change or upgrade anything at all though.
Darke Bear posted:analogmusic posted:Thanks for explanation, but If I may ask, aren't the earth return currents going back to mains earth, which is why Naim do say in the manual that the signal negative should be connected to mains earth in one (but only one) place, which is usually the Naim source like Naim CD player or streamer.It used to be the Lp12 before Naim made CD players.The Mains Earth connection is not really an 'earth return', but more a safety earth for the cases. All power comes from live and neutral of the incoming house mains - and that is where everything eventually works itself out. If the mains earth is passing any significant current then you have a fault and you need to get it fixed! So the 'Ov' used inside all single-ended electronics is tied to the mains 'earth', usually near the low-level input signal inputs, but it has no significant current flow but just a voltage reference.
DB.
Guys, I think we're confusing safety earth with signal star grounding, they are two very different things but Naim use them together. The star grounding uses the safety earth as a ground reference so as to assist very small signal voltages not being lost and low frequencies being attenuated. The star earth is used so as to stop ground loops, and so the signal ground and safety earth reference is done at one point, and as stated with Naim done with one of the sources.
Simon
Hi Simon, I always wondered what this meant below... I'm no engineer, so kindly if you could explain.
per Nap 500 manual
A bridged configuration allow for maximised open and closed loop speed, less intrusive protection circuitry and reduced interaction between input and output signals as the very high drive currents to the loudspeaker do not flow through the system earth.
analogmusic posted:Pure speculation : maybe a 372 is coming which would combine NDS level streaming and 252 level preamp.
Maybe even a new PSU for such a machine. or maybe this machine takes XPS and Supercap !
seems many people would buy it.
I'm too happy enjoying music with my 282/250DR to change or upgrade anything at all though.
I would be suprised at that level of performance, as in both those components Naim use electrical isolation and pphysical seperation as key elements to thier performance, unless it's like a fixed three box combo, one for streamer, one for preamp and one for a common powersupply... Possible but I'd be suprised.
Simon