Speaker match with 272/250

Chris - you have come back to this thread at a very opportune moment as I am about to spend a week home demoing three pairs of Neat speakers; the Petite SX, the Motive Sx2 and the Momentum Sxi3's, the last of which may require moving the system to a bigger room after delicate negotiations with Swmbo. Having discussed the demo with Bob at Neat, only the Petites are bi- writable, so I have acquired two single runs of NAC A5 for the occasion and will, of course, take the chance to re-assess the relative merits of single and bi-wiring. I will post results idc.

Hi Belfast - exciting that the Neats are back in the game.  Any first thoughts?  Cheers, Mark

Tell you that a set of Wilson benesch ARCs or vertex will do the trick - recently. Heard the set up amazing

Northto posted:

Hi Belfast - exciting that the Neats are back in the game.  Any first thoughts?  Cheers, Mark

The Petites Sx are being wired up this morning.

You make it sound like a Space Shuttle launch   ;-))

Nice speaker with adjustable tuning for smaller rooms. Please let us know how they sound.

C.

Well day one with the Petites coming to an end ( my turn to cook tonight) and what a very capable speaker and lovely looking speaker they are. I found the Bungs useful in the context of my small room and I was really pleased that they were prepared to go fairly close to the wall ( currently 15cm) without losing their charms.

Bob sent them with bi- wired connections, so I took the chance to compare single and bi-wire them. No significant SQ difference imo. 

Since the earlier doubts cast upon bi- wiring in this thread, I have spoken to two Linn/Naim dealers independently and both said pretty much the same thing, namely that with certain speakers, but particularly old Linn Kan's but also with modern 109's, they still recommend bi-wiring. I also found my old manual for the Kan's and reading it would make you think bi-wiring was almost essential.

Anyway with the Petites I would say it was not worth the hassle, or extra cable cost, to bi- wire. Tomorrow I shall move onto the Motive Sx2's. My first floorstander!

These maybe out of your budget?  They are not massively bigger than Kan's (width wise), possibly a little deeper, and they are floorstanders. But if it were me, my money would go on a pair of Fact 8's.

I was round my mates last night listening to his and I commented on how much like Kan's they are. What they do with vocals is simply astonishing. I'd say that Fact 8's almost fall somewhere between Kan's and Isobariks - just possibly giving you the best of each. He's also in a very small room.

Thanks Geko but definitely not in my price range, possibly better in Adam's ongoing search for speaker heaven - see separate thread 

That's a very fair write up of the Petites.

C.

Thanks Chris,

i am about to pack the Petites away, so here is my take on them. Bear in mind that what I am replacing are some old but much loved Kan's and hopefully my next statement will not shock anyone. If you had told me that the Petites were really Kan's mark 5 then I would have believed you. The Petites were every bit as foot tapping musical and not surprisingly, compared to old speakers, had a lovely pace as well as really good dynamic qualities to them. As a small standmount obviously they don't have the "biggest" sound to them but I was really pleased that even close to a wall, and one of them a corner, the bass was well controlled almost all of the time. A few recordings such as "Chinese Cafe" by Joni Mitchell did catch them out and at the top end of the spectrum a few recordings like the first album by Dire Straits were a tad bright, but I have not heard any system sound anything other than bright with that record. Again, not surprisingly with a standmount, big classical was not really their forte but lighter stuff like Mozart's Violin Concertos (Anne-Sophie Mutter) was a real delight. Finally, and my wife's ultimate test, was "Xanadu" by Rush. Admirable level of detail with total control.

As I said, a very capable speaker indeed

Out of interest, are you only going try Neats? Have you thought about the SBL suggestion made earlier? Against the wall, £800 for a nice pair. 

Morning HH - Buying SBL's is not an option available to me geographically speaking as most flea pit/online sales seem to require collection only. Another factor is that I am a little reluctant to buy what will at the least be a 15 year old speaker effectively blind.

There is another factor for the current concentration on Neat's. I cannot say much except that I have a friend who has not only arranged a home audition of three pairs of speakers for a week, but is also prepared to sell them at a rather attractive price. That does not mean I will buy any of them but I am certain that you would agree that the home demoing is worth the potential shipping costs.

That makes sense. I'd also check out the PMC 21 and 23 too. As you may know, I used the 23 very successfully with a SuperUniti and briefly with my 272/250 and they are excellent speakers. Don't get the Neats just because they are cheap without checking out alternatives. I wouldn't use speakers like the Motive 2 with something as good as the 272/250, unless it was an interim step to something better. 

I would love to demo PMC's and was hoping that there would be a work trip to London, or similar, that would maybe allow me to fit in a visit to a dealer. Alas, no such work trip just yet.

Depending on your location, dealer and possibly taste in music, I'd recommend giving some Shahinians an audition - you could go all the way up to Obelisks with the 252DR....

Today was not as expected. Today I actually suggested to my wife that it would be a good idea to buy a new house for hifi purposes. Needless to say she answered in the negative.

The reason for all this was the Neat Momentum Sx3i - speakers that can make you want to move house.

My current audio pleasure room is small, arguably too small for a ageing pair of Linn Kan's, so the Isobaric powerhouses that are the Sx3i stood no chance. It was only when I placed them nearer me than to the wall that they started demonstrating what they can do, and boy can they do some.

Instead of a quick trip to the estate agents, my wife and I got the measuring tape out and re-examined another room in the house that had already been identified as a possible new home for the system. And yes, we can just about get the Sx3i's about a metre from any wall, which is absolutely what they need.

Once you give them space these speakers can deliver power with precision, an accuracy with a level of detail that I never expected and also all the timing, rhythm and musicality and of course muscularity that anyone could want. I don't know how they compare to other speakers over £2.5k ( to be vulgar for a moment) because I have not heard that many and I am sure that there are lots of other great speakers out there. All I do know is that the Neat Momentum Sx3i's are a speaker that made me ask a question that could have resulted in instant death. Thankfully my wife is the understanding sort.

Just to confirm- I have already moved the hifi before she changes her mind. Let's hope I don't change mine with the Motives on Friday!

You paint quite a picture.

I didn't go near the Momentum range for fear of what you describe (as well as thinking £1500 should be enough for decent speakers). But people who have them, love them.

C.

272/250 is amazing. It's right at home even with the Kudos Super 20s.

Belfast Taxman, your speaker adventures make for delightful reading. Assuming you make it through the long weekend in one piece, please update us on your progress.

PS My recommendation, speaker-wise, would have been either something from Neat or ProAc since your musical inclinations appear to lean towards pace, power, deep and controlled bass and scale, these being virtues that I believe both brands offer.

OMG this is proving difficult.

After two days with the thunderous Momentums, I honestly thought it was all sewn up. The Motive Sxi2's couldn't compare, especially as they are a grand cheaper, could they?

well, in many respects, they don't. However they do sound lovely. Furthermore the wife has declared them "dinky" and has also discovered the price difference, so I know where her support will fall.

The Motives really are very musical, almost Petites with added bottom end. The tweeter is especially praiseworthy, being one of the few speakers I have heard that controls the cymbals work of Pick Withers on the Dire Straits album. The bass is clearly deeper than the Petites but lighter and arguably more accurate than the Momentums. Detail level is good but not quite as good as the Momentums.

The Momentums really are amazing especially on all out rock music or large scale orchestral music, but I have to admit to being drawn by the pace and timing of the Motives. It was almost like being back on Planet Earth in a musical way after the two day storm that was the Momentums, which were thrilling, exciting, but could you live with them? Here it must be said in their defence, I did not have the most correct stands for them, nor the correct room for most of the time.

in an ideal world I would try lots of other, no doubt wonderful, speakers, but the prices I have been offered cannot be ignored. Also I do not have access to many other speakers - my earlier testing of Kef LS50's and Linn109's suggested they were both good value speakers ( now "value" and Linn are not always I would associate with each other) but outclassed by the Momentums and the Motives.   Whilst the Petites are very capable "Kan" like speakers, in this context they seem a tad over- priced. I certainly prefer the Motives at the same price.

over the last few days of my weeks trial, I will revisit the Momentums. Ultimately it comes down to my system, my room and my ears but I hope this has been helpful to other speaker seekers. I will let you know the winner.

Any chance of trying the Elite? It's better than the Motive and doesn't have that silly leaning back thing going on. 

Thank you for the suggestion HH. If only one could demo every speaker before purchase. As I have said before, I would love to demo PMC, ATC, etc (no, that's not a speaker) as well as the Elite SX, but alas it cannot be done. C'est la vie.

As for the Motives, SWMBO likes the Pisa effect, and it does also mean that unlike most speakers, the tweeter is actually below your ears when sitting on your average sofa, which I suspect gives them a better balance to match the down firing bass port. When listening to the Momentums, I reckon my ears were a good six inches or more below the tweeter, which rather got a little lost,but then again, wrong room, wrong stands and very powerful isobaric units pumping air, so perhaps not too surprising. When I moved them into the bigger room, the SQ rose significantly. If and when I get the right stands, hoping for more improvement.

Hello again Belfast,

Well!  Thank you for sharing this amazing journey, I for one am among those who are learning from it (and silently envious of your opportunity to compare a superb triad in your listening room... erh, rooms!)

A personal aside: I like Neat because I've always felt it ties into a certain PRaT-heavy, forward, fun lineage that makes me think of, well, Royds, a speaker that always blew my mind and I had the pleasure of owning for some time.  I of course defer to those with actual experience, but I've also always imagined these to a be a chip off the ole' Kan block.  Hence my Neat fan-boy status.  They are also the speakers I first heard my NAIT 5si with, before changing opportunistically to beguiling Naim Allaes.

My thought to you is this: your choice is less about which speaker you prefer, and more about which room-speaker interaction you prefer. May the best win!  

Cheers,

Mark

Northto posted:

Hello again Belfast,

Well!  Thank you for sharing this amazing journey, I for one am among those who are learning from it (and silently envious of your opportunity to compare a superb triad in your listening room... erh, rooms!)

A personal aside: I like Neat because I've always felt it ties into a certain PRaT-heavy, forward, fun lineage that makes me think of, well, Royds, a speaker that always blew my mind and I had the pleasure of owning for some time.  I of course defer to those with actual experience, but I've also always imagined these to a be a chip off the ole' Kan block.  Hence my Neat fan-boy status.  They are also the speakers I first heard my NAIT 5si with, before changing opportunistically to beguiling Naim Allaes.

My thought to you is this: your choice is less about which speaker you prefer, and more about which room-speaker interaction you prefer. May the best win!  

Cheers,

Mark

Northto, did you hear that? The sound of a nail being well and truly hit on the head.

Thanks, yes PRaT is hugely important to me and certainly the Motives are providing plenty. My current view is that the Momentums are the better speaker, as they should be for the price, but that the Motives give me the better room-speaker interaction. I have a few days left (an extra one for Easter) and I am going to give the Momentums another go. A pity I can't get hold of the Custom Design stands that Bob has recommended to me in time for final decision day

Hey Belfast - 

It's fun to read your audition experiences precisely because of those unexpected twists and turns - hypotheses validated/rejected at each juncture!

About the room/speaker interaction thing, it's somewhat counter-intuitive, but it would seem entirely possible that a lower-range speaker can yield superior overall performance.  Higher specs in isolation don't necessarily translate into better sound in real-world systems and room.  I have been told that the Momenta work best with a low-mass stand (i.e. they do not like to snack on kiln-dried sand, kitty litter or lead shot), and that this, too, is critical to getting that bass right.  But it sounds like you have the best adviser on this front there is - Bob himself.

A couple more random Neat exclamations:  Put me in the camp that likes the dinky, rearward-leaning, elegant form factor: Motive 2s, Royd Minstrals, some Regas, etc.  They only take up standmount room visually and physically, with a bit more low-end grunt, fullness and ease.  Also, I haven't gotten rid of my Motive 3s despite switching them out of my main system; they're now serving another (Arcam) system in the family very well, making non-audio geeks do double takes.

Best wishes, methinks you'll end up with an absolutely stonking system,

Mark