thou shalt use the Power Line

it is true.... 

I'm convinced so - although I prefer a different (but sadly more expensive cord) on my Akurate Radikal 

Yep, Powerlines have done both on my kit.

I don't know about reducing noise on the mains but then I've got a dedicated rings-main which has always been quiet.  What I do know is that Power Lines improve the performance of my system. The first one I tried was on the Napsc powering the control section of the my 282 and the lift in performance was immediately obvious.  I thus began a fan and have since put them on most of my other components.  

Mike

I added a used one recently to my SN2 and skeptically wasn't expecting much. I was WRONG. The most noticeable difference for me was an incremental dynamic boost. Notes hit a little harder all the way across the range. I really like what it did. Now I want to put one on everything. I suspect that my JL Fathoms would benefit a good deal from them 

I have all Supra LoRad - 2.5mm from wall to power dist block,  2.5mm to amp & 1.5mm to all other stuff.  This is on the end of a semi dedicated power supply that's shared with TV/AV.     I tried a PL between power dist block & amp & also wall direct to amp;  I heard a difference,  but more than different was hard to say,  it was as good for sure,  but not (maybe) better.   

Re reducing mains noise.  No cable reduces mains noise,  that needs specific C&D mode & other filters, but  depending on its design it might be better than others at rejecting noise coming from its local environment.   The Supra LoRad is probably as good as any in that regard:   It has a very tight twist in its 3 cores, as does the PL,  which helps reject noise coming from outside & together with its foil screen thats grounded through the semi conductive earth cable insulation,  it prevents the LoRad from polluting its own environment - this means your IC & ethernet cables.

Powerlines are a bit like Hilines are they not? Similar in cost and each offers a similar subtle, pleasant impact on SQ. Or so they do for me.

I have two PLs and two HLs, each bought second hand for ~ $500 a piece. That represents good VFM for me; however, their impact is not so great I'd feel a need to run out and pay full price for either.

Although mains cables by geometry and design can reduce noise by RF rejection, the performance will vary depending on mains source impedance and load impedance. This means the results can't be guaranteed, so it is a case of trial and error.

I do use parallel braided mains wiring feeding my audio equipment distribution board, to which I connect Naim Powerlines and Naim standard cables, and to my ears it works for me with my mains impedance and with my Naim equipment but clearly could be less effective elsewhere.

here is a discussion that explains the basic principles and why the variation. BTW I don't agree with the author's conclusion on hifi equipment and RF rejection, and I have found certain other RF mains filters unacceptably reduce the performance of my audio equipment.

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/cab...ns/StringTheory.html

Simon

PS Joerand I find Powerlines pleasantly subtle (although more obvious with the NAP 250.2), but Hilines quite marked in performance change/lift. For me I would keep my Hilines ahead of my Powerlines if I had to choose.

The Powerline does something; it is not shielded; it is expensive; its effect is probably due in part to the design of its two plugs; it is a Naim product. Points 1, 3 and 5 are common to all other Naim products. I have had three. Its effect goes in the same direction as any other 'old school' Naim product (clarity and dynamics – with old school I mean anything up to the release of the Uniti and the dismissal of the Sats). As with all other audio products, it must not be evaluated with relation to cost, but just to performance. Performance is partly subjective. Hope it helps.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

PS Joerand I find Powerlines pleasantly subtle (although more obvious with the NAP 250.2), but Hilines quite marked in performance change/lift. For me I would keep my Hilines ahead of my Powerlines if I had to choose.

Hiline is an obvious keeper on my digital side (CD5x) for sure! Less so when I had a 4-5 HL/FCXS on my Stageline - something (sophistication) gained something (grit) lost. Powerlines can be readily exchanged among gear, Hilines not so much. But I'd agree, Hilines probably have a greater, more obvious impact than Powerlines.

My powerline took a further performance step when I added at synergistic research red fuse. Worth considering especially as they offer a 30day money back guarantee.

For the past couple of years I have been on a quest to reduce noise in/from my analogue (Naim Black Boxes) and digital (LAN/LAN devices and NDS) systems. And it has certainly been more the deployment of 'black art' rather than pure science. As Simon says, it is very often trial and error, or try something that has worked for someone else and see if the same thing works for you.

More recently I had a PL from mains socket into my power strip and bog standard Naim power leads from this power strip (Matrix 2 BTW) to SupercapDR/XPS/250DR. I was also using a lengthy power lead (3 pin to IEC) I made up from the same (next to) power socket used for the Naim gear to the power strip (also Matrix 2) for my LAN gear (switch, Unitiserve and router).

I have recently replaced my 'hand-made' power lead from power socket to LAN power strip with Supra LoRad 2.5mm and plugged it into a different power socket in another room on a different ring main (well I assume it is a different ring main). I also at the same time dressed all my ethernet cables and power leads, giving as much separation between all of them as possible.

The improvement in SQ these (minor) changes has made has been very significant and I would mostly put this down to the relocation and replacement of the LAN power strip lead (was home-made, is now Supra LoRad 2.5mm). Out of interest I have tested all my mains cables with an AC sensor that tests for cable radiation. The sensor flashed and bleeped at ALL the mains power cables (including the PL BTW) EXCEPT the Supra LoRad cable. OK I can't be sure exactly what these cables are emitting but for sure these emissions can't be doing anything positive for SQ. Assuming the replacement of one dirty (electrically that is) mains lead for the LoRad cable is (even partially) responsible for the improvement in SQ then it would imply (not prove) that screened mains leads can reduce noise and improve SQ. As I said earlier, 'black art', not pure science.

So I think I am really on to something here, well at least in my system. I have picked a couple of discounted Supra LoRad power leads from the Bristol show yesterday and I have some good quality 2.5mm screened mains cable with a Supra IEC plug that I will make a third mains cable from. These three will replace all the bog standard Naim cables. I will probably try the PL direct from wall socket to the 250DR, LoRad 2.5mm from wall socket to power strip, LoRad 1.5mm to XPS and my home made 2.5mm screened cable from power strip to SupercapDR.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mike-B for relaying all his experiences in the area of noise reduction. I have found his suggestions have been invaluable.

Hi NigelB,  thanks for comment ........ IMO its what a forum is all about,  the forum has helped me enormously,  I try to return the help if I'm able to.

Re Supra LoRad,  I am unsure about the LoRad Mk-II as this looks to be a completely new design.  They  have discontinued the original semi-conductive earth wire insulation that connects to an alloy foil screen;  the earth wire insulation is now shown as PVC on all three wires (LN&E).  The new cable has a new semi-conductive nylon screen connecting to a drain wire.   The how to install video also shows to connect the drain wire at both plug ends,  that's different to normal screened cable practice.  Also (looking at the marketing pictures) it looks very much like they have reduced the 3-core twist rate, the original cable had a very tight twist, the Mk-II looks to be about the same as normal 3-core.     So we are looking at an all new & different cable, except in name.   I suspect "value engineering"  is in this move & probably easier to get implemented since the founder has passed away.  .

point taken, and thanks everyone for replies.

Well I decided not to make my own screened mains cable and bought another Supra LoRad to go with my other three (1 long MkII 2.5mm, 2 X 1 m MkII 2.5mm and 1 x 2m MkI 1.5mm). Two of the LoRads are feeding 2 power strips (Wireworld Matrix 2s) from different wall sockets in different rooms, one of is feeding the SupercapDR from the power strip, and the last of the four LoRads is feeding the XPS, again from the power strip. Previously I used my one and only Powerline to feed the Power strip for my Naim Black Boxes (where I now have a LoRad) and I have now put the Powerline direct from the wall socket to the 250DR. The two LoRads from the power strip to the SupercapDR and the XPS have replaced bog standard Naim power leads. And finally a session of obsessive cable dressing making sure NO cables touch each other with as much spacing between them all as possible.

Sorry to bore you with the detail, but I think it is worthwhile knowing exactly what I have done because the uplift in SQ is quite staggering! More detail (in a good way), more timbre and tone to voices and instruments, more shimmer to cymbals, more clarity to lyrics, more feeling from vocals, I could go on.

I realise that such a claim of SQ enhancement from apparently minor changes is going to raise some eyebrows and call into question my judgement, indeed my sanity. I don't really care. I just feel compelled to relay this to the forum because in all it cost me about £200 and a couple of hours fettling. Like Mike-B has alrady said, I too have gained a lot of valuable information from the forum (indeed the LoRad tip came from Mike-B) and I am glad of the opportunity to give this one back. It is without doubt the best VFM upgrade I have ever made!

I am not sure which of the deployment of LoRad screened power leads (replacing Naim standard power leads) or the separation of the wall socket sources for the two power strips (done previously) or the deployment of the Powerline direct from wall socket to 250DR are the main contributors to the uplift in SQ and I have no desire to back track to find out.

The above is my latest and most successful effort to banish (well reduce) noise from my system. What this journey has told me is that noise in a system (and that has to be a downside of streaming as there are more opportunities to introduce noise IMHO) can have a serious negative impact on SQ. The annoying thing is you can't always hear/notice this effect. What you certainly can notice is the beneficial impact of removing noise. As previously stated, this is rather a black art and progress in removing noise tends to bit by bit and by trial and error.

The great thing is my efforts to remove noise have either cost nothing or very little and have brought some of the most worthwhile improvement in SQ. To those of you still reading this I thank you for not branding me a loony, and have a go yourself, you might be surprised.

Mike-B posted:

Hi NigelB,  thanks for comment ........ IMO its what a forum is all about,  the forum has helped me enormously,  I try to return the help if I'm able to.

Re Supra LoRad,  I am unsure about the LoRad Mk-II as this looks to be a completely new design.  They  have discontinued the original semi-conductive earth wire insulation that connects to an alloy foil screen;  the earth wire insulation is now shown as PVC on all three wires (LN&E).  The new cable has a new semi-conductive nylon screen connecting to a drain wire.   The how to install video also shows to connect the drain wire at both plug ends,  that's different to normal screened cable practice.  Also (looking at the marketing pictures) it looks very much like they have reduced the 3-core twist rate, the original cable had a very tight twist, the Mk-II looks to be about the same as normal 3-core.     So we are looking at an all new & different cable, except in name.   I suspect "value engineering"  is in this move & probably easier to get implemented since the founder has passed away.  .

Mike, Supra were forced into a redesign of the LoRad because the Finnish (I think) company that used to supply the semi-conductive earth cable went bust. They could have obtained cable with the same semi-conductive qualities but only with black insulation and most standards stipulate earth wires MUST be yellow/green hence the redesign with the MkII having normal earth wire with a semi-conductive nylon screen and a drain wire to contact with the nylon screen. I got this info from the Supra rep at the Bristol show. Also picked up some discounted LoRads from the show together with the 'cable sniffer'.

I have received conflicting advice on how to terminate the drain wire in the MK II LoRads - I needed to know as I bought a kit to make up myself. One source said terminate the drain at the 3 pin plug only and another said also to terminate it in the IEC. I called Supra direct and they confirmed that the drain must be terminated at BOTH ends with a sheeth put over the drain in the plugs to avoid any potential shorts. This chap said it is quite normal to terminate the drain earth in analogue cables at one end but drains/screens in power cables should be terminated with the earth wires at both ends.

My first LoRad was a MkII and it works brilliantly. Now I have 3 MkIIs and one MkI installed and see above for the effect. The cable sniffer shows both the MkIIs and the MkI are 'silent' whereas all other power cables I have used, including the Naim standard and Powerline power leads set the sniffer off even on the least sensitive setting. From a cursory look at the MkI and MkII I don't detect any difference in the twist rates. Overall then I have no reason to belive the MKII's performance is in anyway inferior to the MkI. I am just delighted with what these cables have done to the SQ in my system. Of course the ability now to connect the PL direct from the wall socket to the 250DR will have made some contribution to the SQ, how much I can't be sure.

Many thanks for this tip, really terrific VFM improvement.

Good posts thanks NigelB and Mike  - I have just ordered 6m of LoRaD & 2 Furutech  IECs to supplement my 2 existing powerlines.  I doubt that you are imagining the improvements you are hearing - I found similar improvement by getting 2 switches away from a shelf directly above 2 x NASes and associated PSUs and UPS as reported on the now lengthy ethernet cable thread.

In my experience, HL made the biggest difference to sound but not one I cared for from NDX to 282/252 so I returned to lavender.

PLS seemed to quieten background noise down a bit.

So not exactly a ringing endorsement from me but as I had bought them second hand I never lost a penny when I moved them on.