So who has an active system then?

Gavin L posted:

...S600's would save on that additional 500 .

And S800 will also run Active with only two NAP500!
Get them while they are still being made.....

DB.

Correct me if wrong but I thought Naim would do a SNAXO for any speaker that is 2 or 3 way and supports an active Xover version.

As such PMC and several others do Xoverless 'active' speakers (sadly out of my price range) . So unless Naim only do active for Naim and older Linn speakers I think going active in a post Ovator world should be doable.

Certainly I would if I could.

tonym posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

Yes, a fair few high end systems.  Which has got me thinking how people ended up there?  Did they start with more modest active systems then upgraded along the way whilst refusing to move from active (my guess) or some other path?

For me, my introduction to Naim was a 52/52PS with a NAP250 amp (princely sum of only £6K back in mid to late '90's) into a pair of Mission Argonaut speakers.  I changed the speakers to SBLs going active at the same time with a second 250, then changed both for 4 135s.  All my other upgrades retained the active set up from that point onwards.

I came down a very similar path. Having gone down the valve route, I happened to hear a Naim 52, 2x250, SBL system at Rayleigh Hi-Fi and was captivated. I initially tried a passive 52/52PS, 250, SBL system but it just didn't do it in the same way, so I added another 250 & kept this system for over fifteen years.

That's about the length of time I had my active SBL system too.  To be honest, until a few years' ago my interest in music and hifi had started to wane.  My 135s were also clearly in need of a service.  Once I got this done my SQ was once again fantastic and it reignited my interest!

Unfortunately that proved to be very expensive...  I hankered for better bass articulation than was possible with SBLs and wanting to remain active I went for S600s.  800s were too expensive and would be too large for my room.  So out went the SBLs, the SNAXO 2-4 and Supercap, to be replaced by S600s, SNAXO BMR and Supercap DR.  Then the Supercap on the 52 was replaced with a DR version.  Ditto the XPS on my CDS2.  In came an nDAC also with XPS DR.  Then the 52 disappeared for a 552.  Next, out went the CDS2, replaced with an NDS/555 DR and at same time I moved to Fraim.  Finally 552 disappeared, replaced with S1 and Super Lumina cables.  Lots of Powerlines along the way too, plus a dedicated mains spur.  All that happened over about a 2 year period.  Thank goodness I seem to have finished now.  (Apart from the Mu-so Qb I put in the kitchen yesterday...)

ULRIKL posted:

Graham Clarke

Yes, a fair few high end systems.  Which has got me thinking how people ended up there?  Did they start with more modest active systems then upgraded along the way whilst refusing to move from active (my guess) or some other path?

For me, my introduction to Naim was a 52/52PS with a NAP250 amp (princely sum of only £6K back in mid to late '90's) into a pair of Mission Argonaut speakers.  I changed the speakers to SBLs going active at the same time with a second 250, then changed both for 4 135s.  All my other upgrades retained the active set up from that point onwards.

I started my Naim journey with passive SBL1991. I have had different active systems since 2003 and have always been very happy with the SQ of the systems, but it IS a lot of black boxes....not in all family members wet dreams, started with NBL, 3*250 followed by DBL 6*135 followed by 500, 300, 135 up to 3*500. Built a new house 2011 and in came Ovator S600, 3*500. (The DBLs did not work well in the new room but the 600 did). I liked them a lot. Januari 2016 I ended my active journey in favor of passive Ovator 800 NAC S1, NAP S1. Not active but superior in every way IMHO.

This is maybe of topic but: The change from NAC S1, 3*500, Ovator 800, to NAC S1 Passive NAP S1 Ovator 800 was a minor shock to me who was aiming for NAC S1 active 3*500! In my opinion it was a bigger leap in SQ going passive with NAP S1 than the difference between 552, 3*500 to NAC S1, 3*500......but expensive....and a lot of thinking: you are crazy, no, yes, no, yes. The system is still burning in with a fantastic result in SQ! 

/ Ulrik

Nice system Ulrik.  You're not the first to have moved from an active S800/NAP500 set up to passive full Statement, there were some posts last year from a person in Hong Kong who had done the same with similar results.

Do you notice any difference in the speed of the system compared to active?  Detail and speed seem to be the two key things that active brings.

Have you thought about adding another pair of NAP S1s?  Then you could go active again with your S800s.  I wonder what that would sound like?  When I was at Naim HQ a few weeks' back I asked if anyone has an active Statement system and the answer was "not yet", so you could be the first in the world   (Forumites are of course happy to spend other people's money!)

Gavin L posted:

CD555/555PS, 552/552PS, 500/300/500, DBLs, 362/Supercap DR, Fraim, Powerline x 3 & HiLine 

Would love to hear Ovators, even if I am not ready to leave the DBLs behind (which are sounding and looking good).  S600's would save on that additional 500 .

 

Interesting to hear that you are mixing 300s and 500s as others here have mentioned that they don't mix well due to the different outputs of the two.  Clearly you don't find that an issue as this is what you're running.

feeling_zen posted:

Correct me if wrong but I thought Naim would do a SNAXO for any speaker that is 2 or 3 way and supports an active Xover version.

As such PMC and several others do Xoverless 'active' speakers (sadly out of my price range) . So unless Naim only do active for Naim and older Linn speakers I think going active in a post Ovator world should be doable.

Certainly I would if I could.

Well, sort of...

They will supply a SNAXO and you can tune the internal pots but they don't make any guarantees and I would be surprised if the system works as well as one where they have spent the typical hundreds of hours fine tuning it all.

Klimax LP12, 552DR, Supercap DR, Snaxo, 2 x NAP 250.2, SL2s in lovely maple that will stay for as long as Naim can support/service them. No desire to upgrade anything now - the music is sublime. 

Graham Clarke posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Correct me if wrong but I thought Naim would do a SNAXO for any speaker that is 2 or 3 way and supports an active Xover version.

As such PMC and several others do Xoverless 'active' speakers (sadly out of my price range) . So unless Naim only do active for Naim and older Linn speakers I think going active in a post Ovator world should be doable.

Certainly I would if I could.

Well, sort of...

They will supply a SNAXO and you can tune the internal pots but they don't make any guarantees and I would be surprised if the system works as well as one where they have spent the typical hundreds of hours fine tuning it all.

Don't you have to tune the pots anyway to match your room even with Naim speakers? I thought the Xover frequencies were factory set and not user adjustable and you just got minor gain control.

That's a question not a statement. I'm more familiar with Linn aktiv where dip switches adjust gain for room tuning, not the Xover frequency. I'd always assumed a SNAXO was similar.

NDS/555DRpsx2/552/250DRx3/NBLs.

Options in the event of a problem with the NBLs is my major concern at present.

I have used ATCs for years but just ordered a pair of Bruno Putzeys' new loudspeaker design 

the Kii THREE hopefully they will arrive soon.

H

Linn LP12 (harban, keel, aro, xv1s, linn psu/phono pre)
BTW
CDS 
HDX + NaimDAC
52/52PS updated
snaxo362/supercapDR
6x135
DBL

LP12/Lingo/Ekos/Dynavector Ke Taitura Rua, Naim CDS, Naim 52/52PS/NAXO/Hicap/4x135, Naim SBLs.

That's our living room system.  Alas, doesn't get an awful lot of use now, as SWMBO claims that room as 'hers', and watches TV in their. (sigh)

Hence the second system in my study ...  

feeling_zen posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Correct me if wrong but I thought Naim would do a SNAXO for any speaker that is 2 or 3 way and supports an active Xover version.

As such PMC and several others do Xoverless 'active' speakers (sadly out of my price range) . So unless Naim only do active for Naim and older Linn speakers I think going active in a post Ovator world should be doable.

Certainly I would if I could.

Well, sort of...

They will supply a SNAXO and you can tune the internal pots but they don't make any guarantees and I would be surprised if the system works as well as one where they have spent the typical hundreds of hours fine tuning it all.

Don't you have to tune the pots anyway to match your room even with Naim speakers? I thought the Xover frequencies were factory set and not user adjustable and you just got minor gain control.

That's a question not a statement. I'm more familiar with Linn aktiv where dip switches adjust gain for room tuning, not the Xover frequency. I'd always assumed a SNAXO was similar.

I don't think there is an assumption from Naim that all active users are expected to fiddle with the pots.  I don't recall it being documented in the Snaxo manual.  Some people may fiddle but I'm not one of them.

Graham Clarke posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Correct me if wrong but I thought Naim would do a SNAXO for any speaker that is 2 or 3 way and supports an active Xover version.

As such PMC and several others do Xoverless 'active' speakers (sadly out of my price range) . So unless Naim only do active for Naim and older Linn speakers I think going active in a post Ovator world should be doable.

Certainly I would if I could.

Well, sort of...

They will supply a SNAXO and you can tune the internal pots but they don't make any guarantees and I would be surprised if the system works as well as one where they have spent the typical hundreds of hours fine tuning it all.

Don't you have to tune the pots anyway to match your room even with Naim speakers? I thought the Xover frequencies were factory set and not user adjustable and you just got minor gain control.

That's a question not a statement. I'm more familiar with Linn aktiv where dip switches adjust gain for room tuning, not the Xover frequency. I'd always assumed a SNAXO was similar.

I don't think there is an assumption from Naim that all active users are expected to fiddle with the pots.  I don't recall it being documented in the Snaxo manual.  Some people may fiddle but I'm not one of them.

Cheers for the info Graham. I guess that leaves something like the Bryston 10B-STD active Xover as the only option for the rest of us. Which I also suppose is the Xover active PMCs were designed with anyway. 

It's all ifs and hypothetical buts at this stage since an active setup is a very long way off. Still, a shame if Naim stop making SNAXO along with stopping manufacture of speakers. I never heard a passive Naim speaker I would consider buying but at the same time never heard an active setup that was anything short of incredible.

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Graham

I think that you can still go active, Naim-style, with Audiovector speakers, as Naim do active crossovers for some of their range.

So Naim-style active is hanging in there by a thread.

However, with the trend towards ever larger people in ever smaller homes, the ATC & PMC style of crossover & power amps in the speaker has its attractions.

Best regards, FT

Yes I was at  a demo with Ole from Audiovector and there is no change, Audiovector speakers can still be used with Snaxo. Audiovector did release there own active speakers up to sr3 Avantgarde  arreté but you can still run the 3 series with Snaxo, and the only way to get active sr6 models is to use Snaxo.

I have Audiovector sr6 Avantgarde Arreté mk1, meaning that I am one upgrade behind since mk2 has just been released. After the demo   yesterday I am probably going to do that upgrade before considering the dr treatment for my 2 250s.

Claus

Graham

Same as you except I have 252 and non DR 300's

soon to try the new Townsend platform for 600's

good thread

Graham Clarke

Nice system Ulrik.  You're not the first to have moved from an active S800/NAP500 set up to passive full Statement, there were some posts last year from a person in Hong Kong who had done the same with similar results.

Do you notice any difference in the speed of the system compared to active?  Detail and speed seem to be the two key things that active brings.

Have you thought about adding another pair of NAP S1s?  Then you could go active again with your S800s.  I wonder what that would sound like?  When I was at Naim HQ a few weeks' back I asked if anyone has an active Statement system and the answer was "not yet", so you could be the first in the world   (Forumites are of course happy to spend other people's money!)

It´s a big difference, the Passive Statement is much faster compared to the active set with 500s. As I said I was very surprised that the NAP S1 outperformed the active in all "active" areas such as speed, detail, soundstage. The speed is incredible! It´s like having a live band in the living room. 

Going active with Statement is not on my list (for the moment) but, yes, it´s fun spending other people´s money...

/Ulrik

tonym posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

tonym posted:

Hi Graham, yes, after borrowing one from my dealer Signals I was pretty won over by it. I've had to sacrifice room correction for the time being, but the net gain in sound quality is worth it!

Hifi's a funny world, isn't it?  I borrowed an N1Z over the Christmas break and really wanted to like it (based on a short demo at UHES some months earlier).  I struggled REALLY hard to detect a difference in SQ (I kept thinking "it must be there!  It must be better!") and finally concluded that if there was a difference it was very slight and therefore not worth the money.  Prior to the demo I'd pretty much convinced myself that I wanted one so I was disappointed by the result but expect my wallet was happy with me.

So it's a funny world because clearly you had quite a different experience to me and I don't think either of us are cloth eared!  I'd love to understand why the same device performed differently in our set ups.

Oh the joys and mysteries of hi-fi! I've given up wondering about why some things that shouldn't work, do; and vice versa.

Difference in the application though. You were network connected Graham compared to USB connected Tony. 

james n posted:

tonym posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

tonym posted:

Hi Graham, yes, after borrowing one from my dealer Signals I was pretty won over by it. I've had to sacrifice room correction for the time being, but the net gain in sound quality is worth it!

Hifi's a funny world, isn't it?  I borrowed an N1Z over the Christmas break and really wanted to like it (based on a short demo at UHES some months earlier).  I struggled REALLY hard to detect a difference in SQ (I kept thinking "it must be there!  It must be better!") and finally concluded that if there was a difference it was very slight and therefore not worth the money.  Prior to the demo I'd pretty much convinced myself that I wanted one so I was disappointed by the result but expect my wallet was happy with me.

So it's a funny world because clearly you had quite a different experience to me and I don't think either of us are cloth eared!  I'd love to understand why the same device performed differently in our set ups.

Oh the joys and mysteries of hi-fi! I've given up wondering about why some things that shouldn't work, do; and vice versa.

Difference in the application though. You were network connected Graham compared to USB connected Tony. 

N1A Direct Player connection via ethernet works for me to 272. Kinsky control app. This gives me the best playback, normal network via LAN gives me all the network advantages (apps all working etc) but only slight advantage over Synology/SSD combo. No USB DAC so not used/tried.

Roksan Xerxes 20+; Artemiz 2: Cadenza Bronze: Graham Slee.

NDS/555DR

Unitiserve SSD

552 DR

3 x 300

Snaxo BMR/Supercap DR

Orator S600's

Steve Crouch posted:

Same as you except I have 252 and non DR 300's

soon to try the new Townsend platform for 600's

good thread

Hi Steve, I use the Townsend Speaker Bars under my Ovators and also their Pods under my stands. They have made a massive difference in my room.

Look forward to hearing your experience. 

Sondek LP12/Mose/Ekos1/DV-XX2/DV-P75mk3

282/HCDR/HC2/Snaxo 2-4/2x250.5

IBL

Only very recently added the second 250 and snaxo thanks to the DR upgrade pushing down the 2nd hand prices of 250.2. I'd been wanting to do this for a while. I used to have 3x250 with Briks back in the 80's so knew what going active meant. We'll be moving the system into a new rear extension later this year and I'm doubtful that the little IBL's will work there. I had been thinking along the lines of S400 or S600 but every dealer I've spoken to has been less than enthusiastic about them. Really like what the IBL's are doing with the  passive crossovers sitting in a carrier bag in the bedroom so a bit of a quandary. Will have to have a look into the Audiovectors.

Marksnaim posted:

Sondek LP12/Mose/Ekos1/DV-XX2/DV-P75mk3

282/HCDR/HC2/Snaxo 2-4/2x250.5

IBL

Will have to have a look into the Audiovectors.

 

Mark, in your room, why?

And by way of a minor diversion, I found an old post of Peter Swain's elsewhere suggesting upping the bias on the Ittok (mine) and Ekos (yours) by .2 to .3g over the tracking weight. Works for me.....

And now back to ActiveWorld.

Chris

Christopher_M posted:

Marksnaim posted:

Sondek LP12/Mose/Ekos1/DV-XX2/DV-P75mk3

282/HCDR/HC2/Snaxo 2-4/2x250.5

IBL

Will have to have a look into the Audiovectors.

 

Mark, in your room, why?

And by way of a minor diversion, I found an old post of Peter Swain's elsewhere suggesting upping the bias on the Ittok (mine) and Ekos (yours) by .2 to .3g over the tracking weight. Works for me.....

And now back to ActiveWorld.

Chris

Not in this room Chris. In the new room when it's finished. Of course if the IBL's work then I'll be perfectly happy. Will try that first of course.

Will give the bias tip a try now. Bob Dylan on at the moment so we'll see what he makes of it.

Mark

Chris, I did have it at .1 over. Tried .2 and .3. Bob seems to like .2. He didn't like .3, sounded quite put out.  Will leave it on .2 for a bit and see how we get on.

Cheers and apologies for the continued digression. Back to ActiveWorld.

Mark