CDxs5 upgrade

Belfast Taxman posted:

I have the opportunity to acquire this CD player and have two linked questions.

Firstly, I could add a PS to the mix within my budget, should I aim for the Hi-cap Dr or save my pennies elsewhere and go for Flatcap. Can someone explain the sonic differences?

Secondly, and possibly alternatively if I have to spend big here, i could utilise the digital output of the CDxs 5. Naim suggest doing this via an external DAC, but I already have a 272 pre-amp. Would an external DAC beat the 272 for SQ and if so would that beat spending the money on a PS as above?

if the answer to (2) is yes and yes, what external DAC would you recommend?

the rest of my system is a 250dr power amp and Linn front and rear ends

The problem with option 2 is that you end up with 2 redundant DAC's. 

Can't comment on the merits of the following but, if the CDXS5 is as far as you go with CD players try the HiCap. Should give a far better SQ lift than the FlatCap.

If a possible CD upgrade to a CDX2.2 is feasible why not put an XPS on the 272 instead. If gives you the option of switching it onto the CDX2.2.

p.s. By the way many recommend the XPS as a good upgrade for the 272

I had a cd5xs on its own, tried the hi cap but didn't like it at all. Almost an overblown sound for me. It lost all the things I liked about it. 

Flatcap xs however is a different story. Great addition to the 5xs, bigger sound, better bass overall just more of everything I liked about the 5xs on its own. 

Try the CD5xs with its analog outputs and as a transport for the 272 DAC and make up your own mind. If your prefer the analog out then it would be worth trying a flatcap as this (or a hicap) only powers the analog circuits.

I cannot agree more. CD5 XS digital out to 272. Next step is nDAC. No FlatCap or HiCap on the CDP as they only power analog stages that you won't be using anymore in any case. Alternative indeed is XPS-DR, if not 555DR, on 272 that you will still use if you go nDAC. No brainers IMHO..     

Chag -

The brainer being to listen to both and decide.

Thanks to those who replied. The upshot is that with some negotiation with the wife (who said romance was dead), I got sufficient budget increase to be able to acquire a Cdx2 (new). I appreciate that an XPS would be a good upgrade but financially not currently possible. 

The question is what cheaper improvements can I perhaps achieve. The current plan for interconnects is to use RCA (I will have some Linn Blacks from the old CD) instead of the supplied DIN because there is only one analogue DIN input into my 272 which is currently being used by my LP12/Stageline. Instead of this, or just better RCA interconnects, I could use the digital output via a DC1(?) cable to the 272. I tend to agree that inserting an external DAC is an expensive option which I cannot afford at the moment anyway and for starters I am hoping that the 272's internal DAC will do the job. Are there options for the digital cable for which I have been quoted £140?

I'm a little confused here. You own a 272, which includes a fantastic streamer, so why do you want to buy an expensive CD player? Why not just rip the CDs to a nas instead? You could then afford an XPS for the 272 which would make the streaming even better, and improve the sound you get from your records as well. 

HH -a good point and one I can only answer by saying that I am a old fashioned sod and cannot get into the idea of ripping and external storage. Where would I be without all those CD's (and all that vinyl) cluttering up my room?

for me, streaming, which I do via Tidal, is a complimentary medium rather than a replacement one. For example,I recently came across an artist, new to me, Ebba Forsberg. Some of her output is on Spotify/Tidal but not all, so a quick search on Amazon, and, great, they have CD's of the stuff not on Tidal and cheap as well ((£10for two). Now I have the complete back catalogue. Although Spotify and Tidal have good range of material they frequently do not have everything.

Why not try ripping a couple of CDs to your computer and streaming them, using the Naim app. It's certainly worth trying. And if (when) you get that CDX2, for goodness sake get a used one for half the new price. You'd be a mug to buy a new CD player. 

Well if I had a computer. I use IPad only. A computer is something I use at work. I did say I was an old fashioned sod!

I find this post a bit confusing... surely N272 is a pre-amp of choice for those who are into streaming music (primarily from a NAS), want the sound quality of a pre-power combo, but don't want to add a dedicated streamer (that's the brief anyway.... )

As to CD5XS - don't do it. I owned one (because I still like spinning my discs) but it's a bit of a mismatch with classic components (i.e. N272).
It has since been replaced by CDX2.2, connected to my nDAC.

Belfast Taxman posted:

HH -a good point and one I can only answer by saying that I am a old fashioned sod and cannot get into the idea of ripping and external storage. 

Old fashioned is no excuse,  I'm prehistoric !!!   You have spent a lot of money on top end HI-FI equipment,  but you are listening to mid-fi.    Tidal & other www streaming is mid-fi no matter what the marketing blurb says.  CD's are the first step with hi-fi quality & I would also argue that a ripped CD sounds better on a streamer,  but that's subjective;   whatever, its not until you start local streaming from your own NAS & have 24-bit & DSD that you get the best from what you've paid for.

Hi Adam, I agree the cdx2.2 (which is what  I meant by "new") is a more natural fit into my system.

 What benefits do you perceive in using an nDAC over simply using the internal DAC of the 272?

i bought the 272 primarily as a pre-amp. I did not go for the 282 because I also wanted to get high quality access to Tidal and other streaming services, with the possible option of getting into ripping and storing etc. 

+1 for Mike.

If you really must own something that plays CDs why not get a UnitiServe?
It will rip your CD's to be served to your fantastic N272, administer them and occasionally you may actually play a CD from it (digitial out to digital in on your N272).

I do realise it's not the most orthodox suggestion, but why not...

Belfast Taxman posted:

Hi Adam, I agree the cdx2.2 (which is what  I meant by "new") is a more natural fit into my system.

 What benefits do you perceive in using an nDAC over simply using the internal DAC of the 272?

i bought the 272 primarily as a pre-amp. I did not go for the 282 because I also wanted to get high quality access to Tidal and other streaming services, with the possible option of getting into ripping and storing etc. 

Hi

The preference comes from my own set up - I run two 'digital transports' into my nDAC (NDX and CDX2.2).
Another flexibility is that at some stage I will probably sell the whole lot and just get NDS.

So for me it's about the flexibility of mixing the components and upgrading in steps.

Adam

Belfast Taxman posted:

Thanks to those who replied. The upshot is that with some negotiation with the wife (who said romance was dead), I got sufficient budget increase to be able to acquire a Cdx2 (new). I appreciate that an XPS would be a good upgrade but financially not currently possible. 

The question is what cheaper improvements can I perhaps achieve. The current plan for interconnects is to use RCA (I will have some Linn Blacks from the old CD) instead of the supplied DIN because there is only one analogue DIN input into my 272 which is currently being used by my LP12/Stageline. Instead of this, or just better RCA interconnects, I could use the digital output via a DC1(?) cable to the 272. I tend to agree that inserting an external DAC is an expensive option which I cannot afford at the moment anyway and for starters I am hoping that the 272's internal DAC will do the job. Are there options for the digital cable for which I have been quoted £140?

I have a DC1 BNC/BNC cable (CDX2.2/nDAC), but I'm sure there are many cheaper (not necessarily better options). eg Chord

You could even make your own for a couple of pounds. Bought my stuff from Maplins.

I have a home made one for casual use between my Mac Book / M2tech SPDIF/nDAC./552 ;

Bandridge 75ohm dual screened coax cable.(£1.29/metre)

75 ohm BNC plugs about £3 each.

Alba1320 posted:

Pick up any old Philips based CD player, for next to nothing, connect it to the S/PDIF input of the 272, and play your CDs simply, without any of the ripping nonsense - if the 272's DAC/Pre performance is as good as some claim, the end result should be good - No point in wasting a lot more money on a modern CD player, just to use it as a 'transport', IMO.

I don't quite agree - the quality of the digital transport is paramount in the set up.

For connecting CDX2.2 your safest bet would be DC-1.

Most probably. But the aesthetics are also important. There is something visually appealing about a full naim stack

I tend to agree that in the good old days, transport is an important part of the equation but with today's approach to jitter management using reclocking and some proprietry methods, the importance of a good transport (so they they give a low jitter digital data stream) is not of the same anymore.

That said, I am speaking not from real experience but based on understanding of theoretical concepts.

Very Interesting, I do understand the OP's dilemma of being an sod. I very much liked the prestige of owning an LP 12, but rarely bought and played LP's.

Furthermore, didn't want to invest 4 K to bring it up to par, hence sold it for a 2008 Cdx2, 1.7K , great deal.

Being a broke old sod, I opted for a 2nd hand 282, as for ripping and streaming, MM, airport extreme to airport express, with future purchase of Ndac.

Meanwhile, the best of analog, and when I hear a tune I'm fond of,  iTunes for a buck, add it to my library, and playlist, all done from Android cell phone, while lying in bed! 

That being said, if music of choice isn't available i.e. streaming, one is forced to buy a hard copy, or the itune route!

Repeat, I new to this streaming!

Don't really understand!

Nice pre, but 6K ain't cheap!

But I guess you're future proof!

JMHO!

Mike-B posted:

Belfast Taxman posted:

HH -a good point and one I can only answer by saying that I am a old fashioned sod and cannot get into the idea of ripping and external storage. 

Old fashioned is no excuse,  I'm prehistoric !!!   You have spent a lot of money on top end HI-FI equipment,  but you are listening to mid-fi.    Tidal & other www streaming is mid-fi no matter what the marketing blurb says.  CD's are the first step with hi-fi quality & I would also argue that a ripped CD sounds better on a streamer,  but that's subjective;   whatever, its not until you start local streaming from your own NAS & have 24-bit & DSD that you get the best from what you've paid for.

Mike - I agree that Tidal etc. is not the same SQ as either Cd or indeed vinyl which remains my primary source in my system, but that is not to say that Tidal does not have its uses, the most important one for me being in depth exploration of artists that are new to me and very probably resulting in well targeted future cd and vinyl future purchases. Gone are the days, hopefully, when I bought music on spec.

Turning to other replies in this thread, I am somewhat surprised at the apparent belief that the 272 is primarily a streamer. To me it is a very good pre-amp (indeed I see on another thread the argument that it is as good as the 282, but I don't make that argument myself), which also gives you a lot of flexibility and future options. 

Finally to Sheffield Graham, thank you for the advice, but as well as being an old fashioned sod, I am completely useless with DIY electronics. No doubt someone will say I don't deserve a Naim system, but thankfully my ears seem to work okay.

If you are just interested in a cd transport Cyrus makes a top notch transport (signature xt) for around the price of cd5xs.  They've invested a good amount in cd tech - something most others (incl Naim) haven't bothered with for the past 6 or 7 years.  It would be strange to pay double that amount for a cdx2 and bypass/discard the dac section which is what makes it so special.  A unitiserve would also make more sense than the cdx2 in your system.

I'm using Teac pd-501hr CD player as a transport for my n272. With very decent results