First turntable purchase advice please

New VPI, Pro-Ject, Clearaudio, etc. are good TT's. Or a mint second hand Technics SL1210 is also great. I had bad experiences with Rega's so don't recommend Rega. But don't expect a relative cheap TT will sound as good as you're digital gear.  

As a entry into vinyl , you really can't go wrong with a budget to mid priced Rega deck and they tend to have pretty good resale value if you conclude it's not for you.   Please don't assume though that there is a set "warm" vinyl sound, for example my Gyro/Orbe TT with  OL arm and Lyra cartridge sounds not dissimilar to my Esoteric SACD player.  If I was choosing an "entry level" deck now I would most likely go with an Avid Ingenium, but my taste is for a lean, detailed, dynamic sound.

As for vintage decks, yes they can be  a valid alternative.  A Garrard 301 for example is just a nice thing to own and use and offers a particularly snappy, propulsive sound, but unless you really know what you are doing, are lucky  or are buying from a specialist restorer/retailer at the top end of the market, buying vintage can be a minefield.  

The LP12 is only as good as the dealer who sets it up. Only a handful know what they're doing.

Having said this, I can also see merit in the point made further above, with your current system there is a danger that a budget TT won't do vinyl justice by comparison.

From my own experience of owning both, if you like the Hugo sound then a Michell or Avid deck may give you a better insight into just how good vinyl can be.

Very interesting suggestions. Firstly ANALOGMUSIC, I have the cable that came with the 82 which i believe is the RCA to 5 pin DIN. And I aim to upgrade and service the NAP 300 to DR spec next year as Ive already spent over 8K on hifi so far this year. LOL. Sounds insane when i write it out. But it had to be done since I bought & heard the Naim Unitiqute 2 BT (second system), I sold almost my entire old system to upgrade to old Naim gear. Which is why I trust all your opinions as we share a similar preference for audio.

Now i do understand that to get the best from vinyl I will probably need an all analogue earlier pressing of the albums I like. Although I might enjoy purchasing new records also.  But ANALOGMUSIC, what would you say is a good turntable compared to Chord Hugo?

Also guys how would you describe the difference in sound between say a Michel Gyro compared to Rega rp8? Or Linn LP12, although that will probably be harder as it would depend on the spec.

Khan

I have a Gyro SE with SME IV and AT OC9 III upstairs and an old LP12 with 1988 basic arm and a Rega MM cartridge downstairs.  I use the LP12 so rarely that I could not compare with the Gyro in a meaningful way. I guess the Gyro is brighter and more detailed. But I would say that having had both Naim NDS/555 and Hugo (now settled on Linn Klimax) that even my old and out-of-sorts LP12 is miles better than any of the digital sources that I've owned. I shouldn't think you need to go to far up the turntable ladder to better digital.  But the higher you go, the more you'll get out of your records. 99% of my records are earlier than 1985 pressing.  It pretty much stopped there for classical music on vinyl. 

I can vouch for Linn LP12 with Urika / Radikal and Rega RP6/Exact/Aria. Use bith of them on daily basis.

Having said that - if I had to keep only one - LP12 would be the one to stay. I find it special / magical.

Rega RP1 (or whatever its number is -- the bottom of the range, 220 quid thing)
Rega Fono stage (usefully has usb out too)

Combination is excellent value for money and a very strong starting point. Huge respect to Rega for making all of this stuff in the UK

Do not spend a penny more until you are completely convinced that vinyl is for you. Do not buy second hand old stuff, which might have knackered bearings, clapped out cartridge etc. Start simple with a known good starting point.

If you get the bug, then you will get most of your money back on this Rega. So its a very safe, very sensible starting point.

I have a nice vinyl set up that I have improved over 35 years to what is likely its last stop.   Verdier, Morch, Lyra, Superline, Supercap.    I started with a Rega Planar 3 and this is a good place to start because it is easy to ship to a dealer, replace a cartridge, and return via UPS or whatever.   I also  have a room full of vinyl and a chest full of accessories including a table top record cleaner, etc.   To move my vinyl set up would take a mini-van, a vinyl expert, and a day or two on each end..

My advice to people today who want to get into vinyl is "Don't do it".    High quality digital, high resolution formats and ripped CD's, are so good, and so convenient, and the new LP's sound so digital,  that vinyl makes less sense than ever.  To move a digital set up will take the front seat of a car, a high school kid, and a couple of hours.

jon honeyball posted:

Rega RP1 (or whatever its number is -- the bottom of the range, 220 quid thing)
Rega Fono stage (usefully has usb out too)

Combination is excellent value for money and a very strong starting point. Huge respect to Rega for making all of this stuff in the UK

Do not spend a penny more until you are completely convinced that vinyl is for you. Do not buy second hand old stuff, which might have knackered bearings, clapped out cartridge etc. Start simple with a known good starting point.

If you get the bug, then you will get most of your money back on this Rega. So its a very safe, very sensible starting point.

Much as I like my LP12, I think this is good advice, although if your budget stretches to an RP3 or above, you could still get one to test the water, and sell it on easily.

The cheaper Rega Fono Mini is the one with a USB out. The regular Rega Fono doesn't have this. Both are very good for the money. 

Skip posted:

I have a nice vinyl set up that I have improved over 35 years to what is likely its last stop.   Verdier, Morch, Lyra, Superline, Supercap.    I started with a Rega Planar 3 and this is a good place to start because it is easy to ship to a dealer, replace a cartridge, and return via UPS or whatever.   I also  have a room full of vinyl and a chest full of accessories including a table top record cleaner, etc.   To move my vinyl set up would take a mini-van, a vinyl expert, and a day or two on each end..

My advice to people today who want to get into vinyl is "Don't do it".    High quality digital, high resolution formats and ripped CD's, are so good, and so convenient, and the new LP's sound so digital,  that vinyl makes less sense than ever.  To move a digital set up will take the front seat of a car, a high school kid, and a couple of hours.

 

I don't agree with Skip's advice - there is no substitute for pre-mid-80's vinyls. Even modern music, if recorded in an analogue domain or ultra-high resolution, will still sound better on a vinyl. 'Unfortunately' vinyl, being analogue, is still better at reproducing music, which is analogue.
Don't get me wrong - digital sounds great and is a convenient format, especially when streamed from a local server.

I'm the anti-Linn around here I would go for a Rega P6 or 8 with Dyna Vec MC and stageline powered with a flatcap.  But last weekend heard the new Roksan Radius with a Nima arm - very impressive.  Michell Gyro/Techno another good alternative.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I would go for a Rega P6 or 8 with Dyna Vec MC and stageline powered with a flatcap.

One thing to note with Rega - their turntable work very well with factory-fited Rega cartridges.
The OP is new to the black-gold-stuff, so best to purchase a ready-made combo, rather than fiddle with different cartridges.

I tested both the StageLine and Rega's Aria - ended up with the Aria

Most of my music, I'd say something like 70%, is on vinyl and I still prefer it to anything digital. Having said that, unless you can see yourself digging into music from the 50's to early 80's, stay with digital. Most music from the 80's on was recorded digitally. You may still prefer it on LP, but the difference between LP and file based audio is much smaller. It becomes more like a different flavor than a different level of quality.

Khan,

although I am probably the less qualified member of the forum to give advice about TTs, I still want to add my 2cents (or pennies).

First, you'll have noticed that here suggestions tend, with an esigue fistful of exceptions, to promote British turntables – which, if understandable, is nonetheless not perforce shareable. Second, I have in the recent past started playing vinyl again, because of the gift of an older DUAL 701 from a friend. Lately I have given the DUAL back to him and moved to an equally old, but mint, Pioneer PL112D - a 'basic', belt-drive Japanese thing. Well, the Pioneer is at least the equal of the DUAL as far as detail, PR&T  are concerned, and I was rather surprised to hear a better, more articulated, more controlled bass from it. This is to say that – in partial reply to a question of yours – I am not sure about absolute levels of quality in relation to age, modernity, nationality or design.

I tend to prefer turntables with floating chassis to rigid ones, and let's not forget that long before Ivor Tiefenbrun built his first LP12 there had been a lot of Thorens designs. The very first suspended chassis TT is the Acoustic Research turntable, something like 1960 or so. Just take a look elsewhere, you may find good occasions. I have had a rega Planar3 years ago, it was nice but considering the amount of used TTs available on the planet, I wouldn't limit myself to a couple of choices. I'd google 'turntable' and select 'pictures', then would look at many images trying to understand what type of design strikes my fantasy most. Then, some more aimed research.

Best with your quest,

Max

Tony2011 posted:

staffy posted:

I have a Rega P3, which I have had for around 12 years.  I dont find the sound lean,however if I were buying again today I  would seriously look at Project turntables before I made my mind up.

Really? That would be like saying " I love my Porsche but if I had to buy another car I'd go for a VW". 

By the way, have you bought yourself a proper RCM yet?

No, regarding the RCM.  I really enjoy the manual cleaner. I think a top of the range Project Turntable would give a more revealing sound that my Rega P3.     I reckon a good Sirocco would give your average Porsche a run for its money

I have used Rega for years. Mainly due to the ease of set up living a long way from a country with a decent dealer. Two points here. I have never considered the sound lean, quite the opposite. My P5 was simply "better" than my previous CDX2, even with the XPS PS. Only when I moved to CDS3 did digital beat the vinyl. I now have an RP8 with Superline and Supercap. It came fitted with the Apheta and sounds again better than the cd even with its 555PS. 

Great sound and all you need is take it out of the box and you are up and running in 10 minutes. I am sure there are more capable tts out there. But for bang for your buck and ease of use and ownership, I am pleased with what I have.

Dave

Massimo Bertola posted:

Khan,

 

First, you'll have noticed that here suggestions tend, with an esigue fistful of exceptions, to promote British turntables – which, if understandable, is nonetheless not perforce shareable.

Max

Max

I'm Polish, so no interest in promoting 'Made in the UK'

Having read your post though, I made a small indexing of my gear (not just current, but over the last 20 years). And the result?

• Japanese for lower-end electronics - Pioneer, Denon and Yamaha
• British made (not just designed) for higher-end: Naim, Rega, Linn, Monitor Audio

I've tested a lot of other stuff (German, Danish, Italian, American). And I kept coming back to the British.....

I'm not sure what that means, but reminds me of a post sometime in the past 'What explains a British ear...' or something along the lines.

Adam

Tony2011 posted:

staffy posted:

I have a Rega P3, which I have had for around 12 years.  I dont find the sound lean,however if I were buying again today I  would seriously look at Project turntables before I made my mind up.

Really? That would be like saying " I love my Porsche but if I had to buy another car I'd go for a VW". 

By the way, have you bought yourself a proper RCM yet?

Well, considering that Ferdinand Porsche was Austrian, just like Pro-Ject turntables (and ignoring the fact that he founded both Porsche and VW), I'd say that a proper comparison would have been 'I love my Leyland but if I had to buy another car I'd go for a Porsche'...

And by the way - my cars are German

Anyone selling you a TT should be prepared to do a home demo. If you hear something at home that floats your boat and puts your CDs to shame, buy it and enjoy it. Don't torture yourself over what might have been better. If you are that sort of person, buy something with an upgrade path.

+1 to JR. Home demo is a must. If you dealer tells you 'we don't do home demos of turntables' change the dealer. They are there to sell to you, not other way round

Adam,

I wasn't making a 'nationality' point (these are always very slippery terrain, and I try to avoid them although my last two posts seem to contradict what I'm saying), but just suggesting that other options exist; and because the turntables mentioned were mainly British, I mentioned other brands. Tony's post, on the other hand, seems to prove my point, where he compares a rega Planar3 to a Porsche - which, to my eyes, is to say the least benevolent. I remember my first and only Planar3, bought in the very early 80s, and apart from the well known tonearm, for the rest it was made with cheap materials cleverly assembled, and in my opinion is more representative of a good idea commercially exploited than of a specific excellence in technological design. An LP12 is another thing, but the rega has the advantage of being relatively cheap - or it was, before rega decided to enter the risky arena of HiEnd gear.

That said, I am Italian, have never owned an Italian piece of equipment, have only British audio gear and look forward to being still alive the day the last single molecule of patriotism will have been erased from the human soul.

M

I think our responses are also biased, due to the nature of the forum (British-made audio). The so called 'sampling bias' is clearly evident in our suggestions

Come to think of it - I actually do own something relating to our pursuit of musical excellence that was not made in the UK or by a UK-based audio company. Power supply cables and my audio racks. They simply sound good.

analogmusic posted:

Khan you should aim high as you already have a Hugo.

The Hugo can easily trounce and walk all over many turntables, so you might end up unhappy with your purchase if it is too basic.

I have a number of visitors when they heard my Hugo and then my entry level TT invariably tell me to upgrade the turnable as it just can't keep up at all with the Hugo in any way.

By the way I highly recommend the DR upgrade for your 300.

Khan, this is good advice. I had an entry level Pro-Ject which sounded fine when there was no overlap between my vinyl and digital libraries. I purchased an album I own on CD on vinyl because I liked the cover art and imagine my surprise to learn my digital section utterly trounced my turntable. Not good.

Looking to get a turntable at least equal to my digital section, like you I was completely overwhelmed by the choices. Fortunately my dealer is one of those gifted in the setup of an LP12 so that's what I went with. As a result, my LP12 is waaay more plug-and-play than my Pro-Ject was. All I do with it is play records. An LP12 is very easy to live with.

Now that I have a proper turntable, 90% of my listening is on vinyl. Despite having grown up with vinyl, I had no idea how astonishingly good and emotionally satisfying listening to vinyl could sound. My digital section is now used primarily for movies, video games and internet radio.