Power Amp match for SuperUniti?

Would a NAP155XS be a way of dipping your toe into the waters of separate amplification?  A late used one could be a 'proof of concept' and, if necessary, later sold on without loss.  I'm thinking of doing this with a NAP500 to try bi-amping... and it happens there's one at a reasonable price on that famous site, albeit, it's got a few years under its belt. But as a proof of concept, with no potential financial penalty (except maybe fees & shipping), it has to be considered as a plan 

John,

Instead of adding a 250DR to your SU why not ditch the SU entirely and get a 272+250 DR? You'll be in different league and waste nothing in the process.

I agree with Dan, if you can afford to do it.

best

David

I would imagine cost comes into it somewhere. It's easy to just tell someone to 'get a 272/250 instead', but that's quite an expensive step.

In relation to what the OP is asking, I feel that the only worth while power amp to add the a SuperUniti is the 250DR. The 250.2 at 'new' pricing was harder to justify, although it added a bit in the bass control department it didn't absolutely walk all over the SU power amp. But the 250DR, man was that a kick in the pants for it! 

Long term, replacing the SU with a 272 is definitely the way to go, but using the 250DR as a stepping stone to get there is a great solution. 

That's what I'd do too. It's always worth talking to your dealer - getting a 272/250 at the same time and selling the SU privately, or part exchanging, might be more affordable than you think. Whatever, I'm not convinced I'd add a 250 to the SU unless the ultimate aim is to get a 272, or 282/Hicap for that matter. I swapped from an SU to 272/250 last summer and the improvement is absolutely enormous. 

J Saville posted:

But the 250DR, man was that a kick in the pants for it! 

 

+1 

I'm thinking of going with a 250 for my Superuniti as I might decide to skip the 272 altogether at the next step. I can't do it all at once as the wife would kill me. 

Then again I might just end up with a 272 but I'll need the power amp anyway.

Hungryhalibut posted:

That's what I'd do too. It's always worth talking to your dealer - getting a 272/250 at the same time and selling the SU privately, or part exchanging, might be more affordable than you think. Whatever, I'm not convinced I'd add a 250 to the SU unless the ultimate aim is to get a 272, or 282/Hicap for that matter. I swapped from an SU to 272/250 last summer and the improvement is absolutely enormous. 

I lived with the SU and 250DR for 2 months before getting my 272. The 250DR with SU is very good, so good I would be happy to live with it long term. The 272 brings more finess, space and is clearer than the SU as a preamp, but SU is no slouch.

J Saville posted:

I would imagine cost comes into it somewhere. It's easy to just tell someone to 'get a 272/250 instead', but that's quite an expensive step.

A sh SU is worth more than a sh 272. So he could do the swap than get the 250DR he was about to get anyway.

Dan.S posted:

J Saville posted:

I would imagine cost comes into it somewhere. It's easy to just tell someone to 'get a 272/250 instead', but that's quite an expensive step.

A sh SU is worth more than a sh 272. So he could do the swap than get the 250DR he was about to get anyway.

You can pick up a good used SU for around 2K, maybe less on an auction site. I don't think you'll be seeing 272s at those prices for a while yet. 

With thanks to all those who have taken the time to reply.

With thanks to all those who have taken the time to reply.

Those who indicated that costs must needs be considered are entirely correct - I doubt I would find trading in my new SU particularly attractive, what ever the dealer)s) offered and I am unsure at to whether I would personally benefit.

Going back to the original question, 200 or 250, new or s/h, the perceived wisdom appears to be a 250 DR  represents the best vfm/upgrade stepping stone into the future.

Thanks again to all.

KR, J

J

- have owned a 200 since 2006 and really like it - used it when I had a Uniti, enjoyed the sound and depth of the 200

There seem to be  a lot of SH 200 on market, but if money allows the 250DR would be the one to go for - if it works with your speakers!!

try and get a demo of the 250DR and 200 from a dealer before final choice

Dr_J posted:

Going back to the original question, 200 or 250, new or s/h, the perceived wisdom appears to be a 250 DR  represents the best vfm/upgrade stepping stone into the future.

 

 

 

I think people are really saying that a 250DR is the biggest upgrade, not the best vfm - only you can judge that. I would suggest that a used 200 for around £1000 might be considerably better value than a 250DR at over 3 times the price. 

I'm not adding anything new here, but I added a new 250DR to my SU last October and for me it was a major step up (as it should be for £3.4k).  It's just the SU sound with a bit more oomph, but a big improvement particulalry in PRaT, but also detail, soundstage, bass depth and control, treble sweetness.  Basically everything. 

As others have said, you need to make the judgement on VFM versus other choices, but I doubt you would be disappointed with a 250DR.

David

Agree with all re comments on vfm. Now just a case of deciding whether or not I can afford the 'do it once, do it right' approach.

Time for some serious auditioning.

Thanks all.

KR, J

Can't recommend the 250DR too much. Mine just keeps getting better. Go for it!

Hello All, 

Whilst understanding the perceived wisdom of those advocating the undoubtedly excellent 250DR, it still nags me that I should consider the 200DR as a possibly more proportionate option, particularly in the light of costs and the fact that I will not be upgrading the SU in the near/medium term?

Has anyone had any experience of the SU/NAP200 they could share?

Thanks as ever,

KR, J

I don't have the experience that you ask about, although I do have an SU, a 272 and a 250DR, but perhaps someone else will be able to speak from experience.

In the meantime I would just make two points.  The SU has an excellent power amplifier built in. I really doubt that the NAP 200 DR will add anything, and anyway not £2K's worth, but I could be wrong of course.

And the DR bit of the NAP 200 DR only applies to the power supply it provides to a connected preamp. The SuperUniti won't benefit from that at all. So by all means try a NAP 200 but I suggest you don't waste your money on seeking a NAP 200DR rather than a NAP 200.

My own opinion is that if you can't easily stretch to a NAP 250DR, then probably the SuperUniti as it is is a great option.

Best

David

Dr_J posted:

Has anyone had any experience of the SU/NAP200 they could share?

 

 

I've been running a 200DR with my Superuniti for a few months now, and it is certainly a significant improvement on the SU power amp. There is more of what I think people like to call 'inky blackness' surrounding the instruments - the SU alone was a bit mushy by comparison. Of course a 250 would be better - you generally get what you pay for in the Naim hierarchy.

The reason I went for the new DR version is that I will eventually add a 282. The 200DR will power this with a PS that is based on the HicapDR, so it gives the preamp the best performance, short of adding an extra box, shelf, and power socket, which I'm not prepared to do. With a 250, this is not an option.

If I was considering a 200 just to add to a SU, I would almost certainly go for a used non-DR version which would be around half the price of a 200DR. There would be no benefit to the DR section, as that only powers a preamp. There are some other minor changes in addition to the DR spec, but I doubt they would justify the extra, nearly £1000, over a used non-DR 200.

Chrissu, do you bi-amp or pre-power your SU/NAP 200 pairing?

Thanks,

KR, J

Crissu's suggestion of a 200 seems to me the most logical step. It stands at  price point that makes it both a sensible upgrade to the SU and a gateway product to shifting towards ND5XS/202/200. A 250 is a bit of a waste unless purely a stepping stone to a considerably more expensive upgrade. The lowest cost of which involves just a 272; the more extreme of which puts you in 282/NDX land with a mandatory external PS.

I'd be inclined to go with the 200, then if I wanted more think about a 272 or full blown seperates. The ability to power a preamp (something the 250 cannot) makes the 200 the most versatile for all the potential options on  the table.

Dr_J posted:

Chrissu, do you bi-amp or pre-power your SU/NAP 200 pairing?

Thanks,

KR, J

No, I didn't bother. Naim seem to take the view that passive biamping isn't a good idea. I don't know what technical explanation there might be for this, but given that I plan to replace the SU later this year, I just use the 200.

Quite apart from Naim's views against bi-amping, bi-amping with two different power amplifiers is never a good idea because it is very difficult or even impossible to make sure the phase relationship between the two output signals is right.  If the phase relationship isn't right then you will get uncertain and probably unpleasant effects on the speaker response around the crossover point.

So you should use them in a pre/power configuration. Let us know how you get on!

best

David

So, a new NAP 200 DR is now in place, and, to Chrissu and others, enough to to say you were quite right, although I'm still tempted to try bi-amping?

I was lucky to find a 200 DR cancelled order for more or less the same as a number of sh/ex-dem 200's :-))

KR, J