Granite chopping board under speakers

We have solid concrete floors, so spiking through the carpet onto the floor gives a very solid foundation. I did try using some paving slabs on top of the carpet once, and apart from looking awful they made the sound very thin and screechy. They may of course give an improvement on carpet over a suspended wooden floor, but I've not tried it. Intuitively, the idea of carpet beneath stone doesn't sound like a good idea, as it will not conduct vibrations but, rather, simply muffle them. 

HH, if you were to have a resonant floor (wood or, particularly, pre-stressed concrete beams), that may be just what's needed.

You might be right, I'm sure there is no universal answer. 

I had a resonant suspended concrete floor in one house - it was a nightmare.

The best answer was a pair of paving slabs cemented together and painted, allowed to 'float' on the carpet.
However even a ceramic tile on a thin carpet over heavy rubber underlay was an improvement as it reduced the tendency for the floor to 'join in'.

This may be a question best directed at another thread.  (It may also be considered heresy on a Naim forum and result in me being shunned for the rest of time!)  I wonder if (something like) the Townshend isolation bars might work in these circumstances.  I know it goes against Naims philosophy but I have heard them being used in a couple of systems at shows and been pleasantly surprised.  I would love to hear from someone who has done a proper comparison at home in a system they know well.

Huge posted:

Good to know you've tried this on all types of carpet all types of floor construction with all types of speaker, to support your conclusion that if there's an improvement, then there *must* be something wrong in the system.

Huge, you are not reading what I write. "As I say, if it does benefit, there must be something wrong with the system, design, room or the listener"

There are various ways to improve suspended floors and imo, the granite is a very poor solution. 

Hi Count.D,

Ah, now I understand; very sorry I mis-read your post (it's an inherent problem for us dyslexics).  Please accept my sincere apology.

Now with re-reading your post, I do agree with you.

And yes there are definitely better methods to improve resonant floors; but the best of these involve modification of the building, and that soon gets very expensive (which I certainly couldn't afford at the time ).

okay - I'm slightly confused (though nothing unusual there .... )

Are we saying Granite or concrete slabs are a good thing or not?

More specifically, I have a suspended wooden floor (chip boards on timber joists) with wood laminate flooring (Quick Step)

I currently have my extremely heavy ATC active speakers on their open metal frame stands,  directly in contact with the floor (with small felt pads at each corner to protect the wood laminate floor) ... spikes would obviously damage the expensive flooring and upset the wife.

The speakers (with their built in tri-amp packs) weight almost 50kg each and so their is hardly any movement - albeit very slight (perhaps due to the thickness of the felt pads). Maybe a thinner felt pad or something similar is in order (?)

Now, I'm just wondering whether the stands should be spiked and sit on top of granite (or similar) or whether best left well alone 

Mr Frog posted:

okay - I'm slightly confused (though nothing unusual there .... )

Are we saying Granite or concrete slabs are a good thing or not?

More specifically, I have a suspended wooden floor (chip boards on timber joists) with wood laminate flooring (Quick Step)

I currently have my extremely heavy ATC active speakers on their open metal frame stands,  directly in contact with the floor (with small felt pads at each corner to protect the wood laminate floor) ... spikes would obviously damage the expensive flooring and upset the wife.

The speakers (with their built in tri-amp packs) weight almost 50kg each and so their is hardly any movement - albeit very slight (perhaps due to the thickness of the felt pads). Maybe a thinner felt pad or something similar is in order (?)

Now, I'm just wondering whether the stands should be spiked and sit on top of granite (or similar) or whether best left well alone 

 

The cost of a couple of granite slabs from one of the supermarkets (assuming they're big enough for your speakers) isn't going to break the bank. If they don't work stick them in the kitchen. 

A picture paints a thousand words!!!

I should have included this photo in my original post above 

Mr Frog posted:

A picture paints a thousand words!!!

I should have included this photo in my original post above 

Granite chopping boards are typically 40 x 30 cms. Would they fit your stands if you go this route.?

Mr Frog posted:

okay - I'm slightly confused (though nothing unusual there .... )

Are we saying Granite or concrete slabs are a good thing or not?

More specifically, I have a suspended wooden floor (chip boards on timber joists) with wood laminate flooring (Quick Step)

I currently have my extremely heavy ATC active speakers on their open metal frame stands,  directly in contact with the floor (with small felt pads at each corner to protect the wood laminate floor) ... spikes would obviously damage the expensive flooring and upset the wife.

The speakers (with their built in tri-amp packs) weight almost 50kg each and so their is hardly any movement - albeit very slight (perhaps due to the thickness of the felt pads). Maybe a thinner felt pad or something similar is in order (?)

Now, I'm just wondering whether the stands should be spiked and sit on top of granite (or similar) or whether best left well alone 

 

If you used Naim Chips, spikes wouldn't do any damage.

I wouldn't want the felt pads. I would try thin nylon feet (washers?).

You can strengthen suspended floor from underneath, using braces to the concrete sub-floor, or fixing beam across joists, etc.. This helps quite a bit. 

forBarry posted:

This may be a question best directed at another thread.  (It may also be considered heresy on a Naim forum and result in me being shunned for the rest of time!)  I wonder if (something like) the Townshend isolation bars might work in these circumstances.  I know it goes against Naims philosophy but I have heard them being used in a couple of systems at shows and been pleasantly surprised.  I would love to hear from someone who has done a proper comparison at home in a system they know well.

I have, and they transformed my system in terms of bass control/definition. I previously used the supplied spikes under my S600s the Townsend bars were so good that I have also DIY''d them under my audio stands with additional improvement. 

Set of 4 Townsend Seismic Isolation bars for the speakers at just short of a grand (£890) ...... I don't think so.

Snake oil perhaps!

Even pulling up the floor boards and adding extra braces between the floor joists can bring huge improvements.

Adding Rockwool in the floor cavity and then screwing the floor boards back (rather than nailing) will also bring benefits. (Beware of Gas & water pipes, obviously)

Lots of low cost ways that can add up to a big whole.

I agree with others here, reinforcing the floor itself rather than adding MASS to an already not so firm floor is a much better solution.

Mr Frog posted:

Set of 4 Townsend Seismic Isolation bars for the speakers at just short of a grand (£890) ...... I don't think so.

Snake oil perhaps!

Have you tried hem? I have. 

I've just bought some paving slabs from b&q today (Lisse Midnight Grey Paving Slab, 600mmx400mmx40mm) and they have improved the sound in the room dramatically. The room has a problem with a resonating suspended timber floor. For £8 each it has to be the best bang for buck I have spent on my music. They actually look quite nice polished up! Anyone having a similar problem I would urge to try these with speaker spikes on. You need something of big mass such as these to be effective. The Tesco granite boards helped slightly but were not as effective.

The Townsend isolation products do appear expensive for what they are. Never tried them.

I took up the wooden floorboards and built two brick piers where the speakers were to be placed, bringing them just below the floor level. I finished them to floor level with concrete slabs (like Halloween man describes) and relaid the carpet over them.  Speakers were solid as a rock !  Unfortunately this was back in the days of roll film cameras, so you weren't so handy with pics then, so I can't show you.

It's worth saying that this was a downstairs room and the ground was only about 18 inches below the suspended floor.  

The idea would probably work at first floor level if your listening room is upstairs,  but I really don't have any advice about getting SWMBO on board, especially if the kitchen is below.

Hope this helps  (but doubt it will).

Roger

Roger, great solution, can imagine it working well.

Mr Frog posted:

A picture paints a thousand words!!!

I should have included this photo in my original post above 

That's a very obedient dog you have there :-)

Thanks for the feedback Gerry.

And I see your point Mr Frog!!  The ARE rather expensive.  I'm very curious to try them though....

When I bought mine I was offered a full refund if not satisfied.

Just to emphasise the improvement I experienced was mainly in the bass frequencies, where previously I had issues. I had tried speaker placement, room treatment, granite blocks under speakers and digital room correction. The first three had no impact, the digital room correction did remove the boomy bass resonances but messed up the sound quality.  I had believed that the problems I had, were down to room boundaries, but this has proved not to be the case. 

The upgrade to 300 DR's added a further improvement  

Can't see what the fuss is about. Just tipped one of my s400's back and can't see any damage done to my Axminster carpet. I think putting a granite slab there would do more damage.