Speakers choice for 282/SCDR/250DR

By the way Allante93 - I can see you've already dismantled my other system from the music room and mixed with the test / development one

Adam Zielinski posted:

By the way Allante93 - I can see you've already dismantled my other system from the music room and mixed with the test / development one

I love the way you are attacking your System! 

I know some who wouldn't go the 555PS route, but look at your options, great.

50 cm appears to ample space for the focals.

Also the Fraimlite can be upgraded to reference Fraim, shelf by shelf if you like.

 I Just purchased some fraim nuts and bolts for my 282 and Cdx, in the process of specing some glass or Corian.

Please keep us informed when the supra's arrive!

Enjoy your Music!

BTW my Fraimlite upgrade surpassed my Tri Amp Upgrade! 

Adam Zielinski posted:

A short update on running 555PS with my NDX.

I actually had to reposition the speakers.  There was so much bass, it was starting to sound undefinded (still withing the 'constraints of my MA GX300) .

Moved them approximately 10 cm / 2.5 inches further away from the wall behind them. Things are starting to sound very civilised now....

Two more steps to go... NDS and new speakers. This will take a lot of time 

 

When I moved my (then) NDX/282/SupercapDR/250.2/MA GX300s from my larger living room to a smaller listening room the bass became a little ill-defined and overblown. I had limited space so did not have the ability of moving the GX300s further away from walls. I therefore inserted the foam bungs into the rear ports and this sorted the problem and brought a little better definition across the spectrum and also tightened up the overblown bass.

If your bass with the 555 is still overblown, you might try the bungs.

Adam, if I was living in Poland (which I am ) and had 12 K to blow on speakers (which I don't ), I would really take a close look at Audio Physik (German) and Audiovector (Danish) speakers. They are fantastic speakers and go well with Naim. I think Audiovector 'voice' their speakers using Naim gear.

Dzięki! 

Just to be clear on 'have Eur 12k to blow on speakers' statement...

As much as anyone I love a bargain and gettings things done as cheaply as possible. It's more about ballancing the system right now, whilst not forgeting that the sound and choosing whatever sounds best is ultimately most important.

Hi Adam, 

Your system would be a wonderful front end for a pair of ART Alnico speakers, room-match permitting.

I spent 6 years auditioning a huge range of alternatives, including Dynaudio, PMC, Audiovector, Kudos, Neat, Wilson, Wilson Benesh, Sonus Faber, Brodmann, B&W, Linn, Proac, Harbeth etc. etc. before speaking with Derek Dunlop of ART.  I explained what I was trying to achieve, he drove to my home with a pair of speakers, left them with me to try.  When he returned to collect them, I ordered a pair.  Your amp will certainly drive the ARTs, as they are a very benign load.

There is a good reason why a number of Naim forum members seek out, buy and keep their ART speakers.  Marketing is not that reason though.  Even if you choose another path, it would be worth a telephone call to Derek at ART.

All subject to the dreaded room-speaker interaction caveat though.

Hope this helps, FT

So Adam,
Where are you up to with your speaker short-list?

That 555PS is a dangerous box, isn't it.  It gives your amp & speakers another half octave of deep bass with almost twice the drive & transient impact.  Very heavy and very good, especially once you have pulled the speakers away from the rear wall a bit to prevent the onset of room boom.  I had to do the same with mine!

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Adam, 

Your system would be a wonderful front end for a pair of ART Alnico speakers, room-match permitting.

I spent 6 years auditioning a huge range of alternatives, including Dynaudio, PMC, Audiovector, Kudos, Neat, Wilson, Wilson Benesh, Sonus Faber, Brodmann, B&W, Linn, Proac, Harbeth etc. etc. before speaking with Derek Dunlop of ART.  I explained what I was trying to achieve, he drove to my home with a pair of speakers, left them with me to try.  When he returned to collect them, I ordered a pair.  Your amp will certainly drive the ARTs, as they are a very benign load.

There is a good reason why a number of Naim forum members seek out, buy and keep their ART speakers.  Marketing is not that reason though.  Even if you choose another path, it would be worth a telephone call to Derek at ART.

All subject to the dreaded room-speaker interaction caveat though.

Hope this helps, FT

Hi FT,

Thanks for the tip. I emailed Derek. Let's see, if it's feasible to have those speakers for a home demo in Warsaw.

Adam

Foot tapper posted:

So Adam,
Where are you up to with your speaker short-list?

That 555PS is a dangerous box, isn't it.  It gives your amp & speakers another half octave of deep bass with almost twice the drive & transient impact.  Very heavy and very good, especially once you have pulled the speakers away from the rear wall a bit to prevent the onset of room boom.  I had to do the same with mine!

555PS is both dangerous and strangely addictive at the same time

The shortlist at the moment:

• Neat Ultimatum XL6
• Focal Sopra 2
• PMC Fact 8, Twenty 26, MB2 SE
• Raidho XT-3
• ART Alnico

Long list would add:

• Ovator S-600 - do not come in piano black (as specified by my Chief Financial Officer)

At some point, one must throw aesthetics out the window!

Ok, Foot Tapper went for the jugular!

What is your shortlist of speakers?

Being politically correct you added the 600's to the long list.

 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Now if money was no option, we could add the 802 D3's , Vivid Audio G3's, unfortunately for most of us, money is the deciding factor, when selecting hi fi gear.

Hence, the 12K pops up, not that you or any member of the forum, has the loot to throw around. When it comes to hi fi we all strive to parsimonious individuals.

That being said looking at your shortlist, and long list, pay close attention to the ugly speakers!

Wilson's ugly, B&W ugly, Vivid Audio super ugly, even the Ovators possess the shape of things to come!

There must be a relationship between design and function!

In closing, as one Audio Reviewer put it!

There are only two t ypes of components worth owning, the best, and very close to the best, for a whole lot less!

Allante93!

On the ugly side - Ovators S-400 were declared ugly upon their arrival.
My wife still thinks they are quite horrible to look at, but sound 'quite nice' Hence their 'confinement' to the music room - joy to my ears as a result.

At the end of the day - I will just start testing the speakers. I'm sure some of them will look much better in real life.
I forgot to add the B&W 800 series to the short list.

Funny thing, I just went to listen to B& W this weekend!  You know not;hing to do no life etc....

Macintosh, Mono blocks , and the older 802 Diamonds, not bad. but didn't really grab me! 

However, on the way out listened to the 802 Diamonds D2, I get confused not the new D3's but kind of look like them! 

And Wow, put on the Beyonce, just to show off the low end, and made me want to trash my Briks! 

In short I liked them, back in the day they just was to bass heavy for me. 

But still UGLy! 

Enjoy you Journey and Music! 

Thanks for the feedback Adam.

I forgot to mention the Raidho 1.1 and 2.1 that I also listened to.  The 2.1 has a marmite appearance but has some outstanding strengths.

B&W 803D3 should be on the list.  The 802D3 may well need more than a 250DR to drive them, oh and more money.

The Wilson Sophia is a great speaker but expensive and ugly.  The Wilson Sabrina would be worth an audition, as would the Magico S1 if you can find a pair to audition.

The PMC Fact 8 may not be quite of the calibre of the others on your short list.  The MB2 SE should out perform even B&W 802D3, if you cope with their imposing appearance.  They are a lot of speaker for a lot of money too.

Presumably, you have discounted Sonus Faber Olymica III then?  I find them to look absolutely beautiful, as do the Guarneri Evolutions.

Oh, the list goes on and on.  And it's such fun to try them and learn.

Best to take your time and enjoy the journey, though I still ended up with the ARTs!

Best regards, FT

Foot tapper posted:

Best to take your time and enjoy the journey, though I still ended up with the ARTs!

Best regards, FT

Just got a call from Derek at ART all the way from the West Coast of beautiful Scotland to ugly flatlands of Warsaw...
It turns out they have a distributor in Warsaw, but Derek wanted to hear for himself as to what my needs are, so he can instruct the local distributor.
In the words of Darth Vader - "impressive, most impressive"

Beware the power of the (ART) force.  It will draw you in and may never release from its clutches...

A fun journey though!

Best regards, FT

Adam Zielinski posted:

Foot tapper posted:

So Adam,
Where are you up to with your speaker short-list?

That 555PS is a dangerous box, isn't it.  It gives your amp & speakers another half octave of deep bass with almost twice the drive & transient impact.  Very heavy and very good, especially once you have pulled the speakers away from the rear wall a bit to prevent the onset of room boom.  I had to do the same with mine!

555PS is both dangerous and strangely addictive at the same time

The shortlist at the moment:

• Neat Ultimatum XL6
• Focal Sopra 2
• PMC Fact 8, Twenty 26, MB2 SE
• Raidho XT-3
• ART Alnico

 

 

 

Long list would add:

• Ovator S-600 - do not come in piano black (as specified by my Chief Financial Officer)

 

The Raidho like to be 9' or more apart to sound best but will work a bit closer. You can check out the X-3 too. Same speaker just not titanium covered driver and a bit cheaper. 

Adam,

I am following your thread with interest as I too am in the market for new speakers. I am a little short on dealer choice though here in Athens. Just to divert your thread a little, I see you play bass. I can see 4 on your profile, the Yamaha is easy to identify, what are the others? A 6-stringer, seriously!

I have a Ricky 4001, Stingray, Fender Jazz and a fairly new acquisition of a Lakland 44-64 as per the avatar. 4 strings is tough enough without adding a 5th or 6th! Ashdown head and cab. Great hobby but I don't have a band.

Good luck with your journey and let us know how you get on. I changed out an XPS2 for the 555PS on my CDS3 and did not find such a large step up at the time. I am also firmly in the 252 versus 282 camp.

Cheers

Dave

Bodger posted:

Adam,

I am following your thread with interest as I too am in the market for new speakers. I am a little short on dealer choice though here in Athens. Just to divert your thread a little, I see you play bass. I can see 4 on your profile, the Yamaha is easy to identify, what are the others? A 6-stringer, seriously!

I have a Ricky 4001, Stingray, Fender Jazz and a fairly new acquisition of a Lakland 44-64 as per the avatar. 4 strings is tough enough without adding a 5th or 6th! Ashdown head and cab. Great hobby but I don't have a band.

Good luck with your journey and let us know how you get on. I changed out an XPS2 for the 555PS on my CDS3 and did not find such a large step up at the time. I am also firmly in the 252 versus 282 camp.

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave

Finally someone who plays a serious instrument! A fellow bass player. Lakland - that is a serious piece of equipment! Well done.

The other basses are: Aria Pro II (black, 4-string, recently outfited with Seymour-Duncan quarterpound passive pickups). I have this one from new, bought it in 1991. A good, solid instrument. Easy to play.

The 6-string bases are my main go-to instruments. Both by a Polish luthier Mayones. They've been custom made and customised for me. One is fully active (EMG) and the other one is passive Nordstand pickups and an active Aguilar pre-amp.

Fender acoustic bass is around. And a new 5-string bass from Joe Knaggs is also in the works - whenever Joe finishes it

Now back to our serious business.

I actually prefer 555PS with my NDX. It should also serve well when and if I upgrade to NDS.

Dave: I see in your profile that you have a Rega RP8. With Apheta? How does that sound with your high-end gear? I'm debating an upgrade from my RP6 to RP8 or 10....

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Foot tapper posted:

So Adam,
Where are you up to with your speaker short-list?

That 555PS is a dangerous box, isn't it.  It gives your amp & speakers another half octave of deep bass with almost twice the drive & transient impact.  Very heavy and very good, especially once you have pulled the speakers away from the rear wall a bit to prevent the onset of room boom.  I had to do the same with mine!

555PS is both dangerous and strangely addictive at the same time

The shortlist at the moment:

• Neat Ultimatum XL6
• Focal Sopra 2
• PMC Fact 8, Twenty 26, MB2 SE
• Raidho XT-3
• ART Alnico

 

 

 

Long list would add:

• Ovator S-600 - do not come in piano black (as specified by my Chief Financial Officer)

 

Only just read this thread - but I too am looking at speakers to put on the end of a 250DR in the summer. I was looking at the normal floor stander shortlist of Proac, PMC (which I currently have), B&W, Kudos, etc (most of which I have heard and they are all very nice) - but then read some reviews of the KEF Reference 1. I located a pair for a quick listen and I thought they sounded great on their dedicated stands. Not cheap for a stand mounted speaker (and a slightly strange size - very deep!) but there is a lot of technology packed in and they are a true 3 way design. I am going to have a more serious demo when I get closer to making a decision - but I can feel myself inching their way.

Adam,

thanks for the bass chat. I think it was listening to Motown as a kid that got me hooked though I didn't know it at the time! I started out on 6 string acoustic then moved to bass at Uni as a mate had a spare bass (J copy). I stopped for a while, young kids and all that. Same with Hifi which was boxed up and put away. When they got older the music came back out and the Naim trail began. I got a cheap Stingray copy to see if I still had the urge. I finally got some proper one on one lessons having been self taught to that point. Then I began to take it more seriously and started buying proper instruments. They are all great to play in their own way. Rickenbacker with a pick for those punk songs; Fender for Motown with tape-wound strings and the S1 switch in for the Jamerson sound; Stingray for most other - disco and funk riffs are best and the Lakland for a bit of everything. I wanted a P-bass and this I think is a cut above a Fender. It has a Jazz type neck so is very fast. Great tones and a lovely colour!

I'm sure the 555 sounds better as it should for the price. When I changed XPS for 555 I had 282(Hicap)/300 so I maybe did not get the full bang for the bucks for the 555 immediately.

I bought the RP8 to replace a Rega P5 which was better than the prior CDX2 but out-classed by the CDS3. At the time the RP8 was the top model and this was my intention, to get the flagship Rega TT. Unfortunately, the RP10 came out a few months later and I had no idea it was coming. I went Rega due to ease of set up with no dealer support here in Athens. I had some early problems getting the sound right. This was mainly due to stacking issues of the black boxes. I opened a thread about "vinyl downgrade" after I bought the 552. This allowed me to put the supercap on the superline and I was expecting a massive uplift. Due to poor placement of the Superline, in amongst the power supplies, I got poor SQ. In the end I got a dedicated TT shelf (Vulkan) so I could rearrange the power supplies. Hey presto - great sound. I would rate the RP8 as on a par with CDS3 in performance terms. I have a number of albums in both formats so A-B comparisons are simple. My only regret is not knowing that the RP10 was due but I have no plans to upgrade the TT now. It came with the Apheta as a package. There is a new Apheta2 but I will ignore this for now.

Dave

RP8 - one highly respected Naim dealer reckons that the RP8 with a full 500 is pretty much the ultimate solution.  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

RP8 - one highly respected Naim dealer reckons that the RP8 with a full 500 is pretty much the ultimate solution.  

Can't help wondering what the RP10 would bring to the party though!

Dave

Bodger posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

RP8 - one highly respected Naim dealer reckons that the RP8 with a full 500 is pretty much the ultimate solution.  

Can't help wondering what the RP10 would bring to the party though!

Dave

Dave - you do realise this is going to itch, don't you?  

I have the same itch, but luckily Rega has a good support in Warsaw. They even offer home demos - I plan to do one in April.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Bodger posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

RP8 - one highly respected Naim dealer reckons that the RP8 with a full 500 is pretty much the ultimate solution.  

Can't help wondering what the RP10 would bring to the party though!

Dave

Dave - you do realise this is going to itch, don't you?  

I have the same itch, but luckily Rega has a good support in Warsaw. They even offer home demos - I plan to do one in April.

Adam,

go straight for the 10, no incremental steps. Just check they are not planning an RP12 before you buy!

Dave