Rerouted Ethernet Cable

Mike, I am using exclusively cat7 ethernet cables (screened right?) between router/switch/Unitiserve/NDS and haven't considered possible grounding issues - mainly because I have been totally ignorant of this aspect of my LAN. Am I likely to have a single ground with this set up or do I need to check/do something to ensure a single ground?

Your advice, as always, appreciated.

Loving the LoRads by the way.

I doubt it Adam as Ken had Cat6 from his NDS.  The only Cat7 was a AQ Cinnamon from the US to switch (if I remember) 

I doubt you will hear SQ problems,  I didn't for sure.  I was aware of the need for a one point ground but did nothing about it as the NAS was powered from a SMPS so "no earth = no worries".  Then I got into SMPS design (another project) & saw the better designs switch & rectify between L&N & then connect the 0VDC to earth.  I started questioning what I had & dug out the NAS SMPS hidden in the NAS & UPS cabinet,     ohh f-f-f- !!! the 230V lead is a 3 core with an IEC320 on the end (I had forgotten) & my Fluke told me the Ethernet port screen connects to earth.  The SMPS get its power from the UPS & it is powered from a different supply circuit to the NDX,  so I have different power supply earths inter-connecting through the LAN screen.  I measured voltage between the two earths & found 0.4mVAC,   that was low but a PD did exist.  Then something in the house switched on or off & I noted a momentary voltage change,  it was impossible to read,  but that was a PD spike.  I could easily fix by isolating the screen & inserted a UTP male/female adaptor to the NAS port.    Now I'm all Cat6,  so nothing to be concerned about + as good if not better SQ.  (another thread)    

nigelb posted:

Mike, I am using exclusively cat7 ethernet cables (screened right?) between router/switch/Unitiserve/NDS and haven't considered possible grounding issues

Hi Nigel,  yup you are all Cat7 if I rember right.  However before we get too excited,  please tell me again what you have & how each are connected.   I know AQ Vodka from ND to switch .....   the ND has a grounded port,  the Netgear GS carries the screen through ......... now what about the rest - one more time

Mike-B posted:

nigelb posted:

Mike, I am using exclusively cat7 ethernet cables (screened right?) between router/switch/Unitiserve/NDS and haven't considered possible grounding issues

Hi Nigel,  yup you are all Cat7 if I rember right.  However before we get too excited,  please tell me again what you have & how each are connected.   I know AQ Vodka from ND to switch .....   the ND has a grounded port,  the Netgear GS carries the screen through ......... now what about the rest - one more time

Sorry, the detail is as follows:

Cinnamon from iMac to router

Cheap Belkin (screened) from Sky box to router

Cinnamon from router to switch

Vodka from switch to Unitiserve

Vodka from switch to NDS

Switch - Netgear Prosafe GS105

Cheers

OK Nigel,  quite straightforward:   

The router is a BT HH5 (?) & that has all non-screened UTP ports so we can forget everything in & out of that. 

The Netgear GS105 has screened (shrouded) STP ethernet ports & carries (interconnects) the ethernet screens.  So we need to pay attention to anything connected into GS105 that has a screen -  the AQ Cinnamon goes to the UTP router,  the other two are the Vodka's to the US & NDS

The NDS has a screened (shrouded) STP ethernet port & its is connected to the NDS mains power earth,  so lets leave that as is.

The UnitServe has a screened (shrouded) STP port so it might be earthed.  I cannot find out how the US PS is wired,  so for safety lets assume it is earthed with its 0VDC finding an earth.   That will give your Cat7 network two earths (grounds)    

The solution is simple  ...........  isolate the Vodka's screen before it goes into the US.  The simplest & neatest way I've found is to insert a UTP Male/Female adaptor.   I used one of these (pic) but be aware it means the Vodka will now enter the US from above & that might present you with a cable dressing issue,  in my case it came from the side & made the dressing so much better.  You can find them on www - mine is from www.lindy,  but be careful as there are both "up" & "down" versions.   I have a spare "up" I can mail to you if you get stuck.  The other solution is a short length of UTP cable with a female/female coupler to the Vodka. 

Mike-B posted:

I doubt it Adam as Ken had Cat6 from his NDS.  The only Cat7 was a AQ Cinnamon from the US to switch (if I remember) 

exactly correct.  cat6 from switch to NDS is UTP.

enjoy

ken

Mike-B posted:

 

......

The UnitServe has a screened (shrouded) STP port so it might be earthed.  I cannot find out how the US PS is wired,  so for safety lets assume it is earthed with its 0VDC finding an earth.   That will give your Cat7 network two earths (grounds)    

......

 

this is an issue i asked Naim about some time ago. i hope Steve Hopkins doesnt mind but this was his answer (i have only extracted the relvant bits):

The unitiserve does have an earth connection, but since it’s more “PC” than “audio” I’d keep it well away from anything to do with the “audio” side of the system if it was me.

There will not be “2 separate earths for the system”. The “physical” side of the network (the cat5/6 cables and connectors) is differential and transformer coupled in the units, so an “earth” is not passed into the unit’s electronics.

Of course, i may not have fully understood this answer in the context of what we are discussing right now (even though at the time, i thought i did :-) ) but this seems to indicate for the US anyhow -- they will NOT be 2 seperat earths.

the screened vs unscreened issue is relevant for me -- if only from an intellectual point of view --  i.e. to understand whats going on a bit better...

enjoy

ken

Mike-B posted:

OK Nigel,  quite straightforward:   

The router is a BT HH5 (?) & that has all non-screened UTP ports so we can forget everything in & out of that. 

The Netgear GS105 has screened (shrouded) STP ethernet ports & carries (interconnects) the ethernet screens.  So we need to pay attention to anything connected into GS105 that has a screen -  the AQ Cinnamon goes to the UTP router,  the other two are the Vodka's to the US & NDS

The NDS has a screened (shrouded) STP ethernet port & its is connected to the NDS mains power earth,  so lets leave that as is.

The UnitServe has a screened (shrouded) STP port so it might be earthed.  I cannot find out how the US PS is wired,  so for safety lets assume it is earthed with its 0VDC finding an earth.   That will give your Cat7 network two earths (grounds)    

The solution is simple  ...........  isolate the Vodka's screen before it goes into the US.  The simplest & neatest way I've found is to insert a UTP Male/Female adaptor.   I used one of these (pic) but be aware it means the Vodka will now enter the US from above & that might present you with a cable dressing issue,  in my case it came from the side & made the dressing so much better.  You can find them on www - mine is from www.lindy,  but be careful as there are both "up" & "down" versions.   I have a spare "up" I can mail to you if you get stuck.  The other solution is a short length of UTP cable with a female/female coupler to the Vodka. 

Thanks for this Mike. Just a couple of points though. I have ditched the standard SMPS that came with the US for the TP linear power supply designed for the US - yes I know shame on me! I am not sure if the TP PS is earthed of not, I could check if you think it makes a difference. But does this fact and Ken's quote from Steve Hopkins change your view of the need for the UTP male/female adapter on the input to the US or do you still believe the US is a grounding point (in addition to the NDS's) that needs to be removed using the adapter? Or have I completely misunderstood?

Thanks in advance.

N

I've got one of those on the back of my Synology. The only slight issue is that once I connected an AQ Cinnamon to it, it won't come out again! Nothing I do will shift it.

The earthing issue is about the network, rather than the system itself. Presumably as you have a UnitiServe, you also have a nas, so you want to ensure that the earth is lifted at the right point - hopefully if this is the case, Mike can advise. I don't understand any of this, I just do what Mike and Simon tell me...

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

No, I don't have a NAS. I know, I know, I need a back up to the US and it is next on my list. When I do get my NAS, it will either be a QNAP or Synology. Will either of these be an additional grounding point that needs to be removed with the adapter? As HH has used an adapter on his Synology and he does what he is told, I assume it is. Bit worried that HH is unable to extract his cable from the adapter (or is it adapter from the Synology).

The cable is inextricably bonded to the Lindy adaptor. 

OK starting with Ken's post:    Steve Hopkins said "The unitiserve does have an earth connection ........."   the rest is nothing to do with multiple earth (grounds) on the LAN.  But it does confirm my suspicion that the US port shroud is earthed & is relevant to Nigel's enquiry.

NigelB:  The TP PSU is probably a very good move considering what I've heard of the Naim PS problems.  Whatever it does not change the use of the UTP adaptor,  (a) if its needed because of a TP earth connection & (b) it will do no harm even if not "needed"

To HH's point:   NibelB did not mention a NAS or another screened cable connection into the switch  ........  if there is one,  then another adaptor will fix it.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The cable is inextricably bonded to the Lindy adaptor. 

gggrrrrr   RJ45 plug clips  .......  I had two of my Supra Cat7 hang up in the Netgear switch, hence my move to MeiCord ........                       Try pushing the Cinnamon hard into the adaptor & positively depress the RJ45 clip when its firmly "in".   A squirt of Deoxit, switch or contact cleaning lub might help.

When I saw reference to lubrication I though I had come on to the wrong forum!

Oooh......errr......missus!

Many thanks for the advice Mike. Very helpful, as usual.

Cheers

N

james n posted:

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

+1  ............  

nigelb posted:

When I saw reference to lubrication I though I had come on to the wrong forum!

Oooh......errr......missus!

No pun intended...!

G

james n posted:

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

Does that mean that I should ditch my Audioquest cable and replace it with a CAT6 variety?

GraemeH posted:

nigelb posted:

When I saw reference to lubrication I though I had come on to the wrong forum!

Oooh......errr......missus!

No pun intended...!

G

And I thought I was lowering the tone! 

nigelb posted:

GraemeH posted:

nigelb posted:

When I saw reference to lubrication I though I had come on to the wrong forum!

Oooh......errr......missus!

No pun intended...!

G

And I thought I was lowering the tone! 

I blame Humphrey Lyttelton myself.

G

Kevin Richardson posted:

james n posted:

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

Does that mean that I should ditch my Audioquest cable and replace it with a CAT6 variety?

If it's not causing you a problem then i'd leave it alone. The issues seem to come from people suddenly thinking they have an issue they never knew they had. This leads to audiophile neurosis with lots of fiddling, rather than playing music 

james n posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

james n posted:

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

Does that mean that I should ditch my Audioquest cable and replace it with a CAT6 variety?

If it's not causing you a problem then i'd leave it alone. The issues seem to come from people suddenly thinking they have an issue they never knew they had. This leads to audiophile neurosis with lots of fiddling, rather than playing music 

But..... How can I be sure it is not causing a problem?

GraemeH posted:

nigelb posted:

GraemeH posted:

nigelb posted:

When I saw reference to lubrication I though I had come on to the wrong forum!

Oooh......errr......missus!

No pun intended...!

G

And I thought I was lowering the tone! 

I blame Humphrey Lyttelton myself.

G

It was Humph on Radio 4 who once mentioned that (the fictitious) Samantha, who operated the (again fictitious) Lazer display board, had gone on a Pie tasting evening. Humph reported that Samantha quite liked the beef and ale pie but much preferred the Tongue in Cider. Priceless. I loved that programme with Barry Cryer in memory serves.

Sorry for the diversion.

Kevin Richardson posted:

james n posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

james n posted:

Alternatively just don't use Screened Ethernet cables. They are not needed and (as can be seen above) cause more issues than they solve in a domestic environment...

Does that mean that I should ditch my Audioquest cable and replace it with a CAT6 variety?

If it's not causing you a problem then i'd leave it alone. The issues seem to come from people suddenly thinking they have an issue they never knew they had. This leads to audiophile neurosis with lots of fiddling, rather than playing music 

But..... How can I be sure it is not causing a problem?

Try Mikes little adaptor suggestion...