LPs with an eccentric groove

I have a number of LPs like this including an entire box set of ELO LPs that are so badly centred they sound like they're repeatedly speeding up and slowing down.  I must be really sensitive to it because I'll go to the lengths of butchering the centre hole to ensure I can get the groove as centred as possible.  Then mark with a small pencil arrow the edge closest to where the spindle should sit.  Seems to work.  

The effect on sound is clear.  As to whether it has any particular effect on the stylus barring the usual effects of tracing the groove, I don't know.

Wow!

...and it's horrible...

Clive

Makes my heart flutter.....

I've had a few LPs which were off-center, but I have also had LPs that were ok but containing a few songs that seemed wow&fluttering by themselves, like if the master had been done with the last portion of a tape reel and the w&f was in it....

The two most notably wowing songs I remember are While my guitar gently weeps and Monday, Monday. Anyone who has a version without wow, please let me know.

Thanks for the replies chaps. I was listening to a Bon Jovi album yesterday and noticed the eccentricity. The w&f is barely noticeable, but it is an album I have struggled to enjoy a much as I should, in the sense that the songs are great but just don't sound as engaging as they have done elsewhere.

Neat idea Richard, but does that mean tha the LP is then loose on the spindle?

Supplementary question: how does the record ever become off-centre in the pressing plant?

Loki, yes it does.  But that's not a bad idea.  The spindle should locate the LP but not necessarily couple to it.  Makers such as Roksan have a removable spindle so the LP can be centrally located and then the spindle removed for best sound. In fact, I should say that it's a feature of the Xerxes that I really like and it makes centralising eccentrically centre holed LPs much easier.  And it's a feature of my Loricraft Garrard that really annoys - the spindle is slightly fatter than normal so it tightly couples to many modern LPs...

Oh , as to your supplementary question, I guess it all comes down to sloppy QC.

Anyone remember this ridiculously overengineered Nakamich TT from the early 80s that aimed to solved the off-centre LP problem?

Video here:

Richard Dane posted:

The spindle should locate the LP but not necessarily couple to it.  Makers such as Roksan have a removable spindle so the LP can be centrally located and then the spindle removed for best sound. In fact, I should say that it's a feature of the Xerxes that I really like and it makes centralising eccentrically centre holed LPs much easier.

Richard,

You answered a question I was about to pose. I have a couple of old LPs I bought on eBay where the hole is so undersized that they won't go over the LP12's spindle. I widened the hole with the shaft of a screwdriver*, but overdid it, so that there's now noticeable play between record and spindle. I recall reading that the fit should always be "just so," and so I feared that I had done irreparable damage. But if I read you correctly, not only have I not done any harm, I may even have improved the SQ slightly?

Maybe I should do something similar to all my records?

* I've since discovered that a pencil is a better tool for this task.

Richard makes a good point. The removable centre cap on a the spindle of Roksan TTs (at least in Xerxes and TMS variants) was said to be for sonic reasons (I struggled to hear the difference) but also allows a small amount of record re-positioning to offset any eccentricity. Trying to get that right is a complete pain in the arse though. I now accept any wowing effect on the worst offenders as being part of the writer's intention!

Trying to get that right is a complete pain

Yes. How do you know which way to move the LP and by how much, when it will have to be done when the TT is not spinning, nor the stylus engaged.

I regularly do use this on my Xerxes to centre records and it rescues records which are otherwise almost unlistenable.  It takes a little practice but can be quite satisfying.

With the record spinning but with the arm parked you can see the wobble in the grooves.  Just tap the edge of the record as it rotates, getting the timing and impulse of the 'tap' right.   Often needs several taps and a bit of trial and error.

It's good part of vinyl lore that amuses the children!

Ian

Ian, interesting.  Thanks for sharing your centring method.  I tend to take a lot longer - I spin the platter by hand to see which way the grooves "wobble" and then little by little adjust until it appears almost perfectly centred.  I then mark with a pencil the edge of the spindle hole nearest the spindle centre, which helps make alignment much easier the next time.  

Somewhere in the recesses of my memory I seem to recall there was a contraption that could repair poorly centred LPs.  Or did I just dream it..?

Kevin-W posted:

Anyone remember this ridiculously overengineered Nakamich TT from the early 80s that aimed to solved the off-centre LP problem?

Video here:

Haha. Awesome!

I've used an old LP as a template to mark an accurate hole on a wonky LP. Then I just enlarge the hole with a small, fine-toothed round file (using a vacuum hose as a dust extractor.) The oversized hole doesn't seem to cause problems, and I just centre it on the platter by eye.

My approach is quite similar to Chris'. The one record that nearly drives me crazy everytime I play it is Harvest by Neil Young. It is off-center only on one side. I returned the first one, because it was way off on side 1 and got a replacement that is off on side 2 .

Typical, Mulberry! One of the worst I have is a first pressing Duran Duran Rio album. It wasn't until I had an LP12 that I realised that it wasn't poor replay that was making it sound unsatisfactory (although I am sure that there are plentiful folk who might argue that it was a lost cause anyway!). 

Mulberry posted:

It is off-center only on one side.

In my experience the one-sided eccentricity happens more often than for both sides of a LP. I just had this experience with a 2015 small batch run of a Brandi Carlille LP. Makes me wonder what causes one bad side from a manufacturing standpoint? In the old days LPs sometimes had stampers initialed by a different masterer on either side, while a different pressing of the same album had one masterer on both sides. I've found this with The Beatles, Pink Floyd, and Steve Miller LPs manufactured by Capitol Records. These were being pressed by the millions so a need to get replacement stampers out to keep the presses running is understandable, and the teen market of the day likely never noticed eccentric sides. With the modern vinyl market being geared essentially toward audiophiles, I can't see how or why eccentric LPs are being released, especially the one-sided variety.

Richard Dane posted:

Ian, interesting.  Thanks for sharing your centring method.  I tend to take a lot longer - I spin the platter by hand to see which way the grooves "wobble" and then little by little adjust until it appears almost perfectly centred.  I then mark with a pencil the edge of the spindle hole nearest the spindle centre, which helps make alignment much easier the next time.  

Somewhere in the recesses of my memory I seem to recall there was a contraption that could repair poorly centred LPs.  Or did I just dream it..?

Richard - IIRC, large sticky plastic/paper reinforcement rings can provide a solution (akin to those stationers sell), which can be applied once the centre is located & bored out, assuming a one sided issue.