Transferring files, nas to nas

This might be worth a read Bart ............. http://lifehacker.com/how-to-m...ernight-w-1705768233

Thanks Mike...getting closer.  Both nas's support rsynch and now its just a matter of getting them to talk to each other.  On the qnap (where the files are presently) I get a message that the host (presumably the Synology - the destination) is denying my login.  I think I have the guest account set up right but maybe not.

You're fishing in unfamiliar waters for me Bart !!!  You're officially conscripted into the Pioneer Pathfinders Corp.,  I'm sure the same question will be asked again around these parts.    Good luck & let us know how it works out,  & what was the actual file size & how long did it take.

Hi Bart - you can't guess at the port address - this address is just as important as the IP address - and indeed forms part of the total network connection address.

Rsynch can be temperamental to set up. The default Rsynch usually uses the SSH shell for login which runs default as TCP port 22.

Rsynch can be also setup to use its own daemon instead - and this uses by default TCP port 873.

So depending on Rsynch setup try either of these two ports to see if it bursts into life.

Simon

Thanks all.  Both Synology and qnap have rsynch utilities 'built in,' so I don't need to run them from the command line. Simon yes, in those utilities, port 873 is what it automatically looks for.  When the qnap sends a 'test' query to my Synology it comes back OK, but when I try to actually send files over I get error messages that it couldn't log into the synology.  I gave it the right guest account credentials, and have the guest account set up to allow read and write . . . but something is still wrong.  I'm close but just not all the way there

Hi Bart,

Another thing to think about (sorry ) is that 'backup' applications sometimes use 'private' file formats to store the data, particularly for incremental backups.  Do you know if the QNAP 'backup' does incremental backups or does it do a simple file copy?  IF incremental, it's unlikely that the Synology will be able to read the backup.

RSynch is probably the best approach, otherwise go via a computer (even an old one is fine) and just leave it for the necessary time.  For windows you should be able to use RoboCopy, and that'll allow you to disconnect and re-connect the computer part way through the copying.  When you restart the RoboCopy process it'll only start copying the files it hasn't already copied.

Bart

I backup QNAP to a Netgear Readynas using the NAS to NAS facility. It works really well and is an incremental backup. The Netgear switches on for a couple of hours each night to allow the backups to take place. 

Whilst I can't speak for the Synology I did get caught out with the Netgear where rsync was enabled read-only on the share. This meant that the test connection on the qnap passed, but the backup failed as the share was set to read-only. On the netgear the rsync permission is separate to the Samba permission.  Also make sure the account you are using has write permissions to the share on the Synology. 

Richard 

Hi Bart,

Your Synology can mount remote volumes on your network (just like your PC or Mac) and then you can drag and drop files across to / from your qnap via the browser based interface. Look in the Synology help under File Station -> Mount Remote Folders, being sure you create a local directory (eg MountPoint) on the Synology with an empty sub-directory (eg myQNAP) where the remote disc can be found in the Synology file system after mounting. I do this (with a Synology and an old iOmega) for the same reason as you: direct wired Ethernet transfers are easier and faster than waiting for twice the data transfer through a (wifi in my case) Mac.

rsync works fine too, but guest permissions are trickier than they appear because of directory-specific access privileges (edit: as mentioned by Richard). Best used for backups if you've invested time and haven't managed to get it working yet. 

Best wishes and good luck. 

Regards alan

Yes like Alan33 said, mount a remote folder and do a copy.

If you do a straight copy (either the Copy command or drag and drop) you'll have to wait for it to finish, otherwise when you restart (after disconnection) it'll start the whole copy process from the beginning again.  That's why you should use RoboCopy.

Huge posted:

.  That's why you should use RoboCopy.

RoboCopy is a Windows command that doesn't have an "easy" equivalent in *nix systems (like Synology) afaik. The "start from scratch after disconnect" shouldn't be an issue either, since the two NAS devices should stay connected (with appropriate mounts alive and well) during the copy. The Synology web interface drag and drop also creates a background task, iirc, so you can still play around in the UI while the files do their thing. Not to minimize the power of rsync, but my guess is that Bart has already run into a roadblock that could be avoided rather than resolved... Many ways to skin this particular cat!

Regards alan 

Thanks again all -- 'mount remote folder' seems to hold some potential. I'll try it this evening when I'm home.

Incremental backups DO hold some interest however, and thus letting a piece of OS X software do it (like Carbon Copy Cloner) on my old Macbook has some appeal too.  I could just let that run and do it.

More than one way to skin this cat!

Side issue -- would most backup programs recognize changes in metadata tags as enough of a change to trigger an incremental backup? I'm guessing that the size of the file changes which should trigger it, and/or maybe the last saved date of the file.  But I'm not 100% sure.

Bart posted:

 

Side issue -- would most backup programs recognize changes in metadata tags as enough of a change to trigger an incremental backup? I'm guessing that the size of the file changes which should trigger it, and/or maybe the last saved date of the file.  But I'm not 100% sure.

Yes - file checksum will change with content change (even for same size files), and rsync and many "wrapper" backup utilities (including the built in Synology backup tool) trigger off of this. Might be harder to do "on the fly" (ie watching a directory for changes as opposed to checking on a schedule) depending on your choice of tool...but definitely possible. Keep in mind it's easier to back up from the system holding the files (ie use the Synology backup utility for files on the Synology, and the QNAP backup utility for files on the QNAP). If you have USB drives, it's pretty easy to schedule a periodic backup task for local files to a locally-attached USB drive, and only slightly more complicated to rsync backups of local files to a networked NAS capable of rsync-ing (ie almost all of them...)

Regards alan

I think you have to activate rsync as a server on your synology to make it work by enabling a backup server solution somehow since DSM5. I do not remember which setting exactly.

Maybe this helps: "you need to enableNetwork Backup Service".

https://www.synology.com/en-gl...uter_to_Synology_NAS

The advantage of rsync is, that it can continue an aborted copy without copying everything again.

Hi Gert - I do have it enabled (in DSM 6 it appears to just be called "enable rsync service" and I did have that box checked).  But your note enabled me to read some more. . . 

Apparently the username for the rsync service HAS to be "rsync."  I have no idea why; maybe this is some Linux whackery??  I tried setting up my qnap to log in as admin and guest, but it wouldnt work as I reported above.  When I created a new account on my Synology named rsync, and told the qnap to log in with that name, voila it works!

Thanks, Bart, for the info. As I am using rsync to back up the NAS data I maybe will need this after upgrading to DSM6, too. In DSM5 I am using root as login via rsync.

Bart, I hope you have it sorted, it sounds like the implementation of rsync you are having to deal with is a bit esoteric... However I use a rsync here to back up my NAS to another NAS and it works a dream.. I use Netgear devices.. My backup NAS wakes up once a week and performs a read only access of my main NAS and performs an incremental rsync. The permissions of my rsync 'user' is read only on my main NAS and full access on my back up NAS.

Been trouble free for a few years and saved the day a couple of times. I set it up to email me the outcome of the completion of the weekly incremental.. and as I type this I notice the two emails (different mounts) have just popped in ... Nice   

The other nice thing about rsync it's really easy to access the backups, you don't need any special software, so you browse and recover single files should you need really easily.

Simon

Cheers Simon. It could be esoteric, or something as simple as user error not quite getting the username and password in the right places. I doubt t was that, and did read something on the Synology site about setting the username to "rsync" so who knows.

I wonder if Synology and QNAP when talking to each other with rsync will use the --checksum switch; I need to read more.

gert posted:

Thanks, Bart, for the info. As I am using rsync to back up the NAS data I maybe will need this after upgrading to DSM6, too. In DSM5 I am using root as login via rsync.

Actually the Synology page I read says you can use root or rsync.  I know nothing of Linux; is root the same as admin in this context?  Guest wasn't working for me.

Bart posted:

I know nothing of Linux; is root the same as admin in this context?

No, root is the super user account in linux, the one with the user-ID 0, that does exist on all linux systems. "admin" is another user that is introduced by synology. I did not compare the rights of both accounts, but probably root has more rights than admin.

gert posted:

Bart posted:

I know nothing of Linux; is root the same as admin in this context?

No, root is the super user account in linux, the one with the user-ID 0, that does exist on all linux systems. "admin" is another user that is introduced by synology. I did not compare the rights of both accounts, but probably root has more rights than admin.

Ive not actually seen a "root" account on my Synology; perhaps I need to just create it?  "Admin" is created by the DSM on its own, as is "guest" I think.  I'm not sure if "root" exists already (and I need to find it) or if I can create it. If it exists already I have no idea what the password for it is, if any!

Bart posted:

Ive not actually seen a "root" account on my Synology; perhaps I need to just create it?  

root already exists, but it is not visible on the web GUI. If you enable ssh you can log into your NAS on shell in linux or on mac (or on windows with a tool like "putty" IIRC) via "ssh root@YOURNASNAMEHERE". It gets the same password like "admin" by the synology frontend.

Hi Bart - best not use root or play about with root unless you know what you are doing - you can easily make your implementation toast. Root is always there and allows you to do anything including wreck your operating system. Use Admin or such derivates as they will usually have some protection and software will be designed to work with that user type.