555PS on NDX

Yes, it's a bit steep, HH, but since the service + DR upgrade for the Supercap is £1800 and the 555PS is further up the PSU pecking order I suppose it's proportionate.

Mike 

eagle3333 posted:

Well, Simon and Z, the Hugo threads are a bit eye-opening.  Out of interest, is it still possible to navigate ones music using the Naim app with a Hugo plugged into NDX? 

Absolutely. The music is still streamed to the NDX, music selection and playback controlled via iOS device (I assume Android device as well) using the Naim app.... the signal exits the NDX via it's outstanding digital out (via digital coax cable) and then into the Hugo or Hugo TT where the digital > analogue conversation takes place... and then out to the preamp. 

Thanks Dayjay. 

Class A quoted me 'about £2k' this morning for 555PS service/DR so it's not cheap. For my journey, the Hugo noises, if true, could save a small fortune. Just when I thought it was safe..

Thanks Z - got it. Anyone know if the dacs are different between the 2 Hugo models? Am I allowed wander my own post technically off topic?!

The dacs are the same, I believe that the USB input is supposed to be better on the TT but with an NDX you wouldn't be using the USB.  I haven't heard them back to back but feedback on here generally is that they sound the same.  The TT looks nicer, in my view, and has a remote control which may be useful if you are using multiple sources into it but in my view the additional price isn't worth the extra.  

Thanks Dayjay. One observation - quite a few of them put up for sale on e.g. hifi shark the last few months. All those I checked had sold though.. 

I bought mine new, it's possible I will move to something else in the future but I can't imagine that I would let it go even then.  Pound for pound it's a stunningly good piece of hifi and a real game changer for me and my system but, as usual, there are lots of other options and it's worth having a listen.

Dayjay - MCRU linear power supply?

Doesn't need it as it is powered by its internal battery.  Does benefit from a good quality cable though. 

I have not heard the Hugo on a NDX and maybe you should demo one against a NDS. But don't let all this talk of Hugos dissuade you from auditioning a NDS, it is a stunning bit of kit.

Slow down, your movin' too fast, you got a make this (Hifi ) journey last...........

Enjoy what you have for a while for God's sake and then at least when you upgrade you'll be able to make your decisions on being very familiar with your existing kit and the upgrades.

Most additions "change" the sound of your system  initially when you hear something different one usually thinks, Hey this is different, that's good. But it's not always better,  just different. Honestly just get to know the sound of your current system or your really just faffing around in the dark. 

And in the end the biggest effect on sound is room/ speaker interaction rather than XPSDR or 555ps power supplies, these are the icing, make sure there is some cake underneath them.

SJB

You're right Nigel - in a flush world; but cost is a factor..

I know John; serious lack of patience is my achilles heel. I become obsessed and can't let go until I have a final solution in front of me. I may need help. In fact, therapy may be cheaper than any and all this upgraditus.

eagle3333 

I know John; serious lack of patience is my achilles heel. I become obsessed and can't let go until I have a final solution in front of me. I may need help. In fact, therapy may be cheaper than any and all this upgraditus.

Well before your heel trips you up, I'll throw in my 4 letter word....... Roon. 

Take a look at it, if you like what you see, add a DAC to keep your options open - preferably a USB DAC. 

SJB

+1 to SJB's "take time to enjoy the journey" sentiment.  There's always a better deal waiting in the wings, and despite what some C20 dictators may have said, there's no such thing as a final solution.  And FWIW, after several years with an nDAC/XPS-DR front-end, I've switched to an NDX/XPS-DR combo and don't have any issues with harshness or sibilance.  In fact I'm at a particularly content phase of my journey.

John - I'm just going to pretend I didn't see that. And Noogle, amen to that. I'll post back anything useful. Thanks to all, as ever.

For what it's worth....

I'm currently testing 555PS DR vs XPSDR on my NDX (fed into 282/CSDR/250DR).
Thanks to my very flexible dealer I actually have both of them at home on an extended loan so can swap at will.

Conclusion so far: 555PS it is. But with a caveat - I plan to upgrade to NDS sometime this year.

If an upgrade to NDS was definitely not an option, I think XPS makes for a fine addition to the NDX. Probably the best way to describe it: it refines it.
Whereas 555PS makes the NDX sound melodramatic at times - but I like it that way It is a significant uplift in everything that NDX does - good and few bad things. However the sum of 'pluses' is still greater than a sum of 'minuses'

Adam

Perfect information given your system, thanks Adam. I'll hopefully have useful observations to make next week.

Ok, so I'm weak. There is so much positive noise about this H thing from so many people, especially related to use with NDX, it's hard to ignore. If it's all it's cracked up to be I might be happy enough to not obsess any further about 555DR and, later, NDS. This would save me about £6k - buying used/selling NDX. And 1 less big box. This would be optimum outcome for me. So I am compelled to try the H thing with DC1 and Chorus Reference IC's to give it a good chance. I've also got a Chord Prodac Vee to compare against the DC1 at almost 75% less cost because I'm interested to see whether a much cheaper digital source cable makes a difference. (There's no question that different IC's make a difference elsewhere in the system.) One will be sold off after the comparison. The only alarm bell that's rung for me in all I've read is that the little box might sound a bit bright compared to that which I'm used to, even after some burn in. If that turns out true, it will go (hopefully quite speedily and for not a great cash loss) and I'll return to something approximating plan A. If i love it, I hope to be cured. But I have no pre-conceptions. If anyone is interested I'll make a new thread, or find a relevant one to which to add, with brief obs' on what I hear next week and a week later, after its run continuously. If you've all heard enough about it, I won't and I'm sure you'll let me know.. Thanks to all for the remarks and ideas, all of which I listen to and absorb, even if I do then go off at a tangent.

I think it's a good idea to at least give a hugo a spin before committing to an NDS. If you end up going the NDS route you will easily get 80% of your purchase price back on the Hugo, and if you can find one used, you can probably turn around and sell it for the same price you paid for it if needed. So there is little downside.

Looking forward to hearing about how things go, regardless of which products you end up with. 

My thinking entirely Z.

Eagle, FWIW, although I don't use the Hugo via NDX, 'bright' is not a characteristic I would associate with it at all. 

I will also be interested to know how you get on with your venture. Good luck! 

7 hours of listening might be a ridiculously short audition time with new bits to form conclusions, but it doesn't take too long to hear big differences, so I'm going to vent first impressions. Because I'm too excited to wait. 

252 now in situ and beginning the long burn. As most report - a lot more detail but less warm than my 282 to the extent of being very brittle/etched in some high frequency places like Florence's vocals; Leonard Cohen's deep 80 yr old growl has dropped 20 yrs.. Satie's warm piano has come closer to me in the room - but because it's slightly more high-pitched in its definition. I'm not so keen on this but I guess you can't have it all until you get to 500 level? That 'closer to the instruments' thing is particularly true with guitars which are now right here. I'm hoping the etching will soften over next 80hrs as it did with the 250 DR when it went in. Will it?! Because I'm loving the new detail and the bass tightness. Vocals are back in front compared to what happened when SCDR went on the 282, which is a good thing to me. But if that hard edge (which is tiring) hangs around permanently I might need to take a look back at my 282. 

Hugo: I expected to find I'd fallen foul of my impatient, blind following of all the forum comments and that my ears wouldn't get it. I'm gobsmacked to find it's all true! This funky little mad box of frogs really does remove a (proverbial) veil; it's like someone has flung open a window that brings a chasm of openness, depth, clarity and instrument separation that made me laugh to myself. It brought the musicians even closer to me. I wired the NDX analogue output into 'CD' on the 252 and the H into 'Tuner' (my dealer said there was no difference and a test supported that.) This made it easy to instantly flip between them - every time the H won by a country mile. Some may say this is appalling and that having both outputs live will have meant that a swarm of bees buzzed all over one output and degraded the sound of the other. And perhaps it did. But I couldn't hear it. I also de-activated the analogue and flipped to digital and heard no difference to latter compared to when analogue was live; so I believe it was a fair comparison. The little H is definitely staying. I haven't yet compared the £300 DC1 to the £80 Chord because the Chord's sheath needs cutting back before it will fit and I'd rather play music instead. I should also try the H with the 282 in place. P'raps on Sunday. 

This thread began about whether I should put a 555 on my NDX and, later, upgrade to 300; that evolved into p'raps the next step after 555 should be NDS. Now, though, I believe I'm saved from any of this. Because I finally no longer feel the need to chase a sound; because, current occasional shrill edge notwithstanding, I've got it. This forum has been a huge help and thanks to everyone who has helped me on my journey. I'd never have known about the Hugo without it. Perhaps NDS/555x2/300 is lots better; p'raps nDAC/555 is better; I've not heard any of them. But I am very happy to live without them. Please god let it stay that way for the foreseeable.  

And ensure your NDX is set to chassis ground ( for the earthing connection to the 252) ?

Enjoy. I certainly love my NDX/Hugo/252DR set up... top performance and enjoyable sound..

Simon

Wonderful write up! Happy to hear you have found a sweet spot.

Your post has inspired me to try my nDAC with NDX and 555DR... Should interesting.

Thanks Simon - yes done that. Did your 252 tonality change in terms of this etchiness I describe as it burnt in? I'm not sure it will moderate to the same extent the 250 did?

Adam, it's all comparitive isnt't it? I thought NDX/252 was very clear/detailed - which it is - until I plugged H in. Enjoy the expt. Just don't get a H and post that it's trounced by it! I'm very happy to stop now and save a box, six grand and the obsession that's taken over my life! I much prefer Simon's conclusion and think I'd best put a child lock on the forum for a while. Top marks to Richard/Naim for allowing this thread. I have no doubt the folks there will be reading all and working on a H-beater. If you are - let me add that the diminutive size was a huge plus for me as was removal of PS box requirement. I'm on the limit for boxes.. I wonder what the rest of the community would think about a Naim departire from the ideology in just this one instance?