Super Lumina vs Chord Sarum Super Aray Interconnect. Which is Best? Only One Way to Find Out - Fight!

Posted by: nigelb on 07 April 2016

Actually this was a three-way fight because these two were up against my trusty Chord Sarum Tuned Aray interconnect but that would make the title too long. To make life easy (and because I can't type) my Chord Sarum Tuned Aray interconnect I will refer to as TA, the Chord Sarum Super Aray we'll call SA and the Super Lumina will be known as SL. My dealer assured me the SL and SA were both run in, important as I know the TA and SA take hundreds of hours to sound their best.

I replaced my Hiline with the TA some time before the SL range of cables were released and I have been using the SL speaker cables with the TA for about a year now and have meaning to demo the SL interconnect at home. As I have enjoyed the TA, I was also keen to hear the more recent upgrade to the Chord Sarum cables - the Super Aray. Luckily my wonderful dealer has both the SL and SA cables available for home demo so I took my chance.

I used my trusty 21-track playlist of music I know well as my demo material, although I am getting a bit tired of it, but my familiarity of this material I feel is important when conducting a bake-off like this as subtle difference will be more apparent. The rest of my system is detailed in my profile.

I properly warmed my system up and and a lengthy listen to my TA to get a baseline clear in my head. Next up was the SL which I warmed up with a few tracks. I always like to be out of the room during a warm up as I don't want my initial impressions affected by a cable which might not be at its best - (more of this later with the SA that needed a long, long warm up). As it happens the SL didn't appear to need much of a warm up and it's character didn't change much as I listened. I have this afternoon listened the the SL for the second extended demo so my comments are from both listening sessions.

The SL is quite simply a revelation. Where the Chords are possibly (and I emphasis the word possibly) a little more accurate/neutral/natural, they (the Chords) have a slight 'bloom' which can affect transients, particularly softening the leading edges of notes. This is a very subtle phenomenon that I only noticed when listening to the slightly 'faster' SL which really attacks leading edges. Actually I am not entirely sure which is the more 'accurate' but I preferred the SL on this particular aspect as it added some excitement to music. The SL's speed and 'attack' definitely help in the timing department too, which in turn adds to the traditional PRaT, such a cornerstone of the Naim signature. I hesitate to use PRaT as a descriptor because I have never been sure that my understanding of PRaT aligns with others'. But IMO the SL has PRaT in spades. The SL has a 'purity' to the sound of instruments and voices (which occasionally is warts 'n' all) that the SA can't quite match. There is absolutely no gloss or smoothing with the SL, you are hearing it as it is. Compared to the SL, the TA and the SA sound a little more 'beautiful' but this beauty is at the expense of the added excitement offered by the SL. Right, I will let you into a bit of a secret. I have one track that I love and gets me going every time. Not really a secret as I spilled the beans on this in the Music Room on the thread about What Music Makes You Cry. I thought I ought to try the SL out on this track to see if it was the 'beauty' of the TA and SA that got to me. Well the SL indeed got me going on this track as usual. What an old fool I am. But I had to check because the emotional connection with music is to me the most important aspect of replay in the home. No problem in this department with the SL.

After a good listen to the SL, next up SA. Due to its stiffness the SA was trickier to install and I was being very carful - didn't want to damage any pins on this expensive bit of wire. Once installed, the usual warm up with me out of the room. When I sat down to listen, I realised I was very impressed by the SL and heard me thinking that the SA would need to be very special to compete. This is not an entirely neutral frame of mind and I reminded myself that the SA was likely to sound different which could either be a positive or a negative. But the first listen to the SA was a real disappointment. It was thin, compressed and splashy in comparison to the SL. I thought this will be an easy contest and maybe the SA didn't suit my system. But then I thought, hang on the SA sounds worse than my TA, the SAs predecessor. I then though something is clearly wrong here so I let the system play for a couple of hours or, and I came back to it. I detected some improvement, but still no comparison to the SL. This at least told me that there was more to come from the SA and it really needed some more time. I left the system playing overnight with the SA and had another listen the next day. Much, much better than the previous day's experience. A far better tonal balance with a little more deep bass than the SL in fact. But although this bottom octave was more apparent, it was not particularly well controlled. It is possible of course that the rest of my system, particularly my speakers, may not be capable of handling the extra very deep stuff the SA was apparently letting through. The SA never got stressed and tracks that used to be hard/edgy in places were now much easier on the ear.

In conclusion, The SA was a more exciting listen than my trusty TA but not as exciting and enthralling to listen to as the SL. Very occasionally the SL's excitement would tip over into edginess but never to the point where I had to reach for the volume control. At times you really need that rawness and edginess to appreciate the full expression of instruments, musicians and vocalists, as long as that doesn't tip over into hardness, which it never does with the SL. So I am left with the beauty of the SA and the excitement of the SL. That of course is too simplistic a comparison and I suspect there might be a bit more to come from the SA. I am currently leaning towards the SL but want to hear more from both and see if the SA has any more to offer. Watch this space.

I would be interested to hear others' experiences of comparing the SL to the SA.

Posted on: 10 April 2016 by Folkman

Having gone from TA to SA and now ChordMusic , I found the Music to be a larger step forward than the SA is to the TA.

Now im trying to deny that Music speaker cable is a reality , but I doubt I will win !

Posted on: 10 April 2016 by Jonas Olofsson

I have commented similar discussions before but can't help myself.

I did a several months long experiment a couple of years ago, at that time I compared Naims best offering, HiLine, PowerLine, Naca5 against Chord Sarum and Vertere (don't remember the name of the model, one of the best they had though).

The winner at that time was Sarum BUT there was a big difference between what kind of cable it was and the difference it made. To my ears:

IC was more of a "taste" they all brought something interesting to the table.

Power lines & XLR-DIN a complete no-brainer, Sarum way ahead of competition.

Speaker cable changed the whole picture, I needed to make up my mind what wanted.

Sarum TA IC was later tried against Super Lumina IC. Liked SL a lot and you can hear that the creator of Vertere also developed SL.

Still, I wasn't impressed by Vertere XLR-DIN and have noticed that kind of reaction here from people who tried/bought SL XLR-DIN. Maybe I'm reading in to much in it.

Sarum TA become Super Aray, a step up but not mind blowing. Chord Music on the other hand is just that: MIND BLOWING! And not only the price tag... I was shocked when I first heard them in my own system.

Treat yourself and try them out just to get an idea what proper cable really can do. Martin Colloms thought that Super Lumina could be a weak link with the Statement. I wonder how Chord Music/Statement would sound?

//Jonas

Posted on: 10 April 2016 by nigelb

Jonas Olofsson posted:
I have commented similar discussions before but can't help myself.
I did a several months long experiment a couple of years ago, at that time I compared Naims best offering, HiLine, PowerLine, Naca5 against Chord Sarum and Vertere (don't remember the name of the model, one of the best they had though).
The winner at that time was Sarum BUT there was a big difference between what kind of cable it was and the difference it made. To my ears:
IC was more of a "taste" they all brought something interesting to the table.
Power lines & XLR-DIN a complete no-brainer, Sarum way ahead of competition.
Speaker cable changed the whole picture, I needed to make up my mind what wanted.
Sarum TA IC was later tried against Super Lumina IC. Liked SL a lot and you can hear that the creator of Vertere also developed SL.
Still, I wasn't impressed by Vertere XLR-DIN and have noticed that kind of reaction here from people who tried/bought SL XLR-DIN. Maybe I'm reading in to much in it.
Sarum TA become Super Aray, a step up but not mind blowing. Chord Music on the other hand is just that: MIND BLOWING! And not only the price tag... I was shocked when I first heard them in my own system.
Treat yourself and try them out just to get an idea what proper cable really can do. Martin Colloms thought that Super Lumina could be a weak link with the Statement. I wonder how Chord Music/Statement would sound?
//Jonas

Thanks for the input Jonas. I dare not try the Chord Music at home. I have heard a demo (of the digital cable actually) and it sounds pretty amazing. Goodness knows what the Music IC is capable of. I will just have to go out and buy myself a lottery ticket.

Posted on: 10 April 2016 by Allante93

NigelB Posted:

"Thanks for the input Jonas. I dare not try the Chord Music at home. I have heard a demo (of the digital cable actually) and it sounds pretty amazing. Goodness knows what the Music IC is capable of. I will just have to go out and buy myself a lottery ticket."

It's the New Material Taylon®!

Not to expensive, it's only Money!

Signature (1m analogue RCA interconnect £800)

An established favourite, the Signature range is comprehensive and sets a performance standard at its price point. Signature cables were the first to use high-frequency-effective shielding which drove the development of Chord’s higher performance cables. Tonally neutral, the range includes speaker and power cables, plus analogue and a completely new design – Signature Digital interconnect. There are also streaming, USB and AES/EBU cables, all of which feature Tuned ARAY conductor technology developed for each specific cable design. Signature performs brilliantly individually, but its strengths magnify when used in multiples.

Sarum (1m analogue RCA interconnect £1,900)

The Sarum interconnect, power cable and speaker cable take all of Chord’s principle design values to a logical conclusion. Conductors are polished prior to being silver-plated, the insulation is gas-foamed PTFE and the shielding is the most effective Chord has used. Chord Sarum interconnects and power cables feature the unique Super ARAY conductor configuration. Developed from the ground-breaking Tuned ARAY, the Super ARAY keeps all the musical transparency of the Tuned ARAY design but is capable of carrying extraordinary levels of critical musical detail. Super ARAY USB and streaming cables are also available.

The Sarum cables have been widely regarded as being some of the most musically transparent cables available.

ChordMusic (1m analogue RCA interconnect £3,800)

ChordMusic distils 30 years of cable design and construction knowhow into an extraordinary and musically revelatory product line. ChordMusic has been developed using an entirely new insulation material called Taylon®, which has never before implemented in audio cables. Taylon® is a phase-stable dielectric material and when combined with the unique Super ARAY conductor geometry, takes cable performance to a completely new level.

Where Sarum Tuned ARAY and then Super ARAY opened the window onto the performance, ChordMusic kicks the door down and lets you wander into an extraordinary musical landscape.

If it sounds that good it's worth it!

Allante93!

Posted on: 11 May 2016 by eagle3333

NigelB - after just a couple of hours with both IC's on demo' at home I'm entirely in agreement with your findings, so far. Elsewhere I've been recounting my issues with harshness/edginess with my 252-based system and the effect on this was top of tree for me.

You've described what I hear with these IC's extremely well so I won't just repeat it all. At this very early stage, though, I note that, whilst the SL delivers a detailed, fast and absolutely thrilling sound it too often exacerbates the shrill and hard edges in my (apparently problematic) set up/ears. It takes what my system does and simply magnifies all of it - good and bad - to a super-high level. Including those edges. The SA doesn't quite do that. It takes the music to another level but it smooths out the harsh edges and delivers a warmer, more refined sound. Maybe this is the 'bloom' you describe. It's still emotional, but not in the same way the sound from the SL smacks you about the face. It delivers a sound that appeals to the emotions in a more sophisticated, deeper, silky smooth way. With the SL, while there were times I was blown away by the excitement factor, I was also screwing up my face (ears) too often and moving on to the next test track before the current one had finished. I did have to turn the volume down, once. (Your findings stopped short of mine in this respect, which makes me wonder all the more about my system..But we agree on the direction.) The SA kept those edges under control and the worst of them were now within tolerance level; and I found myself immersed in each track, to the end.

I'll give both a more in depth listen over next couple days. Right now I feel I could listen to music for hours with the SA; less so with the SL just because that 'transparency'(?) is too tiring - with my set up. The SL's thrill-factor is addictive; the SA's 'beautiful' allure, as you so well describe it, is a relief.

Posted on: 11 May 2016 by nigelb

eagle3333 posted:
NigelB - after just a couple of hours with both IC's on demo' at home I'm entirely in agreement with your findings, so far. Elsewhere I've been recounting my issues with harshness/edginess with my 252-based system and the effect on this was top of tree for me.
You've described what I hear with these IC's extremely well so I won't just repeat it all. At this very early stage, though, I note that, whilst the SL delivers a detailed, fast and absolutely thrilling sound it too often exacerbates the shrill and hard edges in my (apparently problematic) set up/ears. It takes what my system does and simply magnifies all of it - good and bad - to a super-high level. Including those edges. The SA doesn't quite do that. It takes the music to another level but it smooths out the harsh edges and delivers a warmer, more refined sound. Maybe this is the 'bloom' you describe. It's still emotional, but not in the same way the sound from the SL smacks you about the face. It delivers a sound that appeals to the emotions in a more sophisticated, deeper, silky smooth way. With the SL, while there were times I was blown away by the excitement factor, I was also screwing up my face (ears) too often and moving on to the next test track before the current one had finished. I did have to turn the volume down, once. (Your findings stopped short of mine in this respect, which makes me wonder all the more about my system..But we agree on the direction.) The SA kept those edges under control and the worst of them were now within tolerance level; and I found myself immersed in each track, to the end.
I'll give both a more in depth listen over next couple days. Right now I feel I could listen to music for hours with the SA; less so with the SL just because that 'transparency'(?) is too tiring - with my set up. The SL's thrill-factor is addictive; the SA's 'beautiful' allure, as you so well describe it, is a relief.

I can totally understand your findings from these two interconnects. If you find higher frequencies and fast leading edges shrill and hard then the SA would definitely suit you better. The SL IC is far more of a roller-coaster ride and I think I mentioned that it is less forgiving of poor recordings/mastering and when the mix was really in-yer-face, this could be either thrilling or tough at times. Probably need a 552 to control that kind of thing properly. I described the SA has having a slight bloom which some might read as a slight veiling which is not correct. The SA is very transparent but seems to calm the high frequency excesses that you find so tiring. So I completely understand where you are coming from.

As to whether or not there is something else amiss in your system to cause this hardness/shrillness you describe, or if it is your 252 still running in, is difficult to say. How many hours do have on the 252 now?

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by eagle3333

All agreed, Nigel. 252 has about 170hrs on it. NDX about 200. SCDR about 250. The dilemna right now is that if there is a eureka moment with the 252 and the edges smooth off the SA may overdo the effect. So perhaps I should delay the IC for a while. I'm not optimistic, however. I'm inclined to hold off until the power blocks are sorted next week. Much appreciate the objective and non-judgemental reply, btw! Not that I've experienced other. The combined knowledge and experience of the Forum has been a great help on this journey. Crikey - how would it be if every other purchase in life was so fraught. A measure of the passion and the perfectionism?

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by rjstaines

eagle3333 posted:
All agreed, Nigel. 252 has about 170hrs on it. NDX about 200. SCDR about 250. The dilemna right now is that if there is a eureka moment with the 252 and the edges smooth off the SA may overdo the effect. So perhaps I should delay the IC for a while. I'm not optimistic, however. I'm inclined to hold off until the power blocks are sorted next week. Much appreciate the objective and non-judgemental reply, btw! Not that I've experienced other. The combined knowledge and experience of the Forum has been a great help on this journey. Crikey - how would it be if every other purchase in life was so fraught. A measure of the passion and the perfectionism?

Brings to mind my ex and her shoe buying expeditions, eagle3333 eek

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by hungryhalibut

I'd let things sort themselves out with the 252 before thinking about wires. The more I read of your trials and tribulations the more I thing there may be something amiss with the 252. I've owned two 252s and they were never as you describe - in fact they were too much the other way for me, almost to the point of being a little dull.

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by nigelb

eagle3333 posted:
All agreed, Nigel. 252 has about 170hrs on it. NDX about 200. SCDR about 250. The dilemna right now is that if there is a eureka moment with the 252 and the edges smooth off the SA may overdo the effect. So perhaps I should delay the IC for a while. I'm not optimistic, however. I'm inclined to hold off until the power blocks are sorted next week. Much appreciate the objective and non-judgemental reply, btw! Not that I've experienced other. The combined knowledge and experience of the Forum has been a great help on this journey. Crikey - how would it be if every other purchase in life was so fraught. A measure of the passion and the perfectionism?

Wise to delay the IC decision for a while and see if things settle down further. BTW it has been said that the SA can take up to 600hrs to burn in and the SL 200 hrs though I found little burn in effect with the SL. You might want to check how many hours your demo ICs have on them.

I know what you mean about the system potentially smoothing out to the point that you might find the SA a bit on the smooth side (like me) but that sounds unlikely at the moment. I am not sure if the NDX displays a burn in effect but the SupercapDR certainly does. Mine took months to fully burn in so this could be having an effect also. You may indeed be suffering from burn in of the 252, SupercapDR and NDX, the combined effect of which might be causing the shrillness. Not sure how many hours your 250DR has on it but this might be having an effect also. This doesn't quite explain the eureka 25 mins you experienced with the 252 though, unless that was with a different set up.

I hope things improve further for you and consult with your dealer as much as possible.

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by eagle3333

Thanks All, delayed IC decision sensible. This morning there's been a development on the shrill factor. I'll post it on my 'harsh' thread.

Posted on: 12 May 2016 by eagle3333

So I disconnected my TT IC and earth cable and have a new 252. The relief. Shrill seems to have gone. Sound has greatly opened out and become smooth and airy. The SL no longer pushed edges over the edge. Since I have the IC's (inc an AR Lunar) and the sound now feels 'right' I'll continue to compare, out of interest.

Posted on: 13 May 2016 by eagle3333

Thanks Nigel. I hope you're right. That would be brilliant for me. My g/f had a blind listen with tt connected and disconnected and heard a similar difference to me with no prompting or pre-warning, though more subtle. This morning the difference was less clear again. It's all a bit baffling and I wonder again whether I'm seeing ghosts - which is why I get someone else to listen.

Anyhow, putting that issue to one side, the difference between SL and SA is unequivocal. You also hit it on the head when you talked of emotion. I, too, have a couple of passages of music that can reach right inside me. The SL went all the way in its emotional evocation, leaving the SA somewhat in its wake. I find the base sometimes a little bit too wafty on the SA, but it's worth it for the wonderfully warm, velvet smooth, controlled overall delivery, to which I could listen, unfatigued, for hours. I'm not sure I could say same about SL. (There are tracks I would tend to avoid playing with the SL in my set up and that's not the case with SA.) By comparison, though, SA doesn't draw me into the music to the same degree as SL. I feel more like I'm listening to it compared to being part of it.

It's a very problematic decision as to which is best for me and I'll need to play on for a bit. On one side are the SL thrills and emotional involvement with the downside of sometime too-piercing highs (for my ears) On the other, the SA's warmth, more organic, smoothed-edge sound, seemingly larger stage and ease of listening but not, apparently, so emotionally involving. But, it may be that the SA is perfectly emotionally involving in isolation. Had I not heard the SL or be doing back-to-backs an hour or so, or less, apart, I might be perfectly happy with SA, indeed overjoyed to find an IC that reveals much more than standard in such a beautifully refined way and tames sometimes shrill highs which the standard IC can't. 'Beautiful' is spot on. I'm going to confine my listening to SA for next two days, try to forget what the SL can do and see how involving the SA can be. Because, like you, it's all about the emotional connection for me.

Interestingly you wrote about how a 552 might tame SA's sometimes loose bass. I'd add that SL might be better-suited to 552/Statement (unsurprising) which may be better able to control the sometime shrill highs. (Or is it showing up a weakness in the NDX?) What I'd really like is an IC that is a combination of the best attributes of the two! Quite remarkable the very real difference made by cables. To me, the different sound produced by these two is as big as the difference between the 282 and 252 - which, agreed, is not actually night and day. Oh, g/f response to the AR Lunar after hearing the others - 'it sounds a bit muffled'. Taking it out of this company, though, I liked it more than the OE and would run it if I didn't buy one of the others.

Posted on: 13 May 2016 by nigelb

Eagle, you seem to have a very similar assessment of the SL vs SA ICs - not surprising as our electronics are very similar.

Clearly the TT earthing issue is at least partly explaining the issues you are having with harshness/shrill high frequencies but you seem to indicate this might not be the complete solution you thought it might be. Maybe there is still some burn-in benefit to come from the 252, Supercap and NDX. I do however recall a slightly smoother, more composed presentation when I moved from NDX to NDS (with the NDS also having the benefit of a XPS). But I would never describe the NDX as hard or shrill. It may however be a contributory factor.

Would it not be possible for your dealer, who lets face it has had quite a slug of your money (assuming you bought all this kit from the same dealer), to come round to your home and hear your system (with and without the TT attached to the 252) and assess what the issues might be. By the way what racks are you using for the Naim gear? I have also found it very beneficial to separate the LAN gear (router, switch, NAS etc) from the Naim boxes, both physically and electrically. There are many threads on here about the dos and don'ts (and the pitfalls) of setting up an ethernet wired LAN and your dealer should be able to advise on this also.

It would be a real shame if you have to compromise with your choice of IC - the 'beauty' and HF control of the SA vs the emotional connection of the SL.

I would be interested to hear how things develop. Remember your dealer is duty-bound (if only morally) to help you overcome the SQ issues you describe.

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by eagle3333

Yes Nigel, a silent piecemeal possible retreat from what I thought was 'it'. However, to keep things the comparison as pure as possible I'm leaving the tt and earth disconnected while considering the IC's. Beyond that, I'll have to be patient and go with what I hope turns out to be burn-in for a couple more months. I'll continue this reply in the 'harshness' thread..

I agree re: compromise. If the SL didn't send the highs so painfully high in this set up, I'd have it over the SA because I'd know I was missing out on something key without it.

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by ken c

i only have SL IC between 552 and NDS and the SL snaxo -- so i dont have the so-called full loom. with my set up, i dont recognise the 'painful highs' you mention -- but that could be for a whole host of reasons -- one of which could be i am less sensitive to it, or room acoustics, or ...

run in could be factor though. how long have you been running the 252 now? and how often have you been switching it on and off as you did various tests? sorry, probably belongs to your other thread...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by Chris Dolan

My own Naim Super Lumina v Chord Sarum Super ARAY home system bake off will kick off on Monday cool using my CDS3/XPS2. Currently a HiLine connects it to my preamp.

I was going to DR my amp first but I've never been a particularly patient person - indecisive sometimes though nod

I did try Chord Sarum Tuned ARAY a while ago and though I am not 100% of the timing it was certainly with SBLs and probably with 282/250.2.

While I liked most of what the STA added I found it a touch too forward and incisive, so did not actually commit to it.

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by Gavin L

ken c posted:
i only have SL IC between 552 and NDS and the SL snaxo -- so i dont have the so-called full loom. with my set up, i dont recognise the 'painful highs' you mention -- but that could be for a whole host of reasons -- one of which could be i am less sensitive to it, or room acoustics, or ...
run in could be factor though. how long have you been running the 252 now? and how often have you been switching it on and off as you did various tests? sorry, probably belongs to your other thread...
enjoy
ken

Hi Ken,

My Recommendation would be to try the XLR, even before the speaker cables. I found it rounded out the sound - really developing the bass in the way the IC did for the mid. I would be very interested to hear if you find the same difference as I did and I think you will find it improves things a lot.

I did not audition the Sarum - on the basis that I am working towards that top end (pre Statement) Naim sound. However, when I hear some of the critique of the SL, I do recognise it as pre XLR.

For me, I am still running in, and things are edgy in an exciting way (very active style). Last night I listened to Wish You Were Here (album) for the first time in a while. The volume was higher than usual and I was somewhat shocked when the drums came in - I could almost feel them!

Gavin

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by Chris Dolan

Gavin L posted:

......... when I hear some of the critique of the SL, I do recognise it as pre XLR.

So would that amount to synergy or fault masking?

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by naim_nymph

Chris Dolan posted:
My own Naim Super Lumina v Chord Sarum Super ARAY home system bake off will kick off on Monday using my CDS3/XPS2. Currently a HiLine connects it to my preamp.
I was going to DR my amp first but I've never been a particularly patient person - indecisive sometimes though
I did try Chord Sarum Tuned ARAY a while ago and though I am not 100% of the timing it was certainly with SBLs and probably with 282/250.2.

When i first listened at home using SA on both my CDS3, and LP12 i found the wider frequency window and extra bass needed some settle time, i don't know what in the system needs time to settle [or adjust] perhaps the circuit boards in the pre and power, and/or my SBLs which have had all their electronics replaced with new only 5 years ago. But the initial effect was one of odd timing.

I have a theory that even with the cable(s) already burned-in, there will be some settle time needed if/when the cable is plugged into another system, and i'm finding that 24 - 48 hours is where mystrons seem to mysteriously settle.

Using my LP12 for the first time with SA i found it took 5 LPs to sort out a weird timing issue,but from then on after my SBLs are reproducing a depth of bass that i've never heard from SBLs before - not even with an active 4 pack, and it's rich in high resolution clarity and sense of realism. After a couple of weeks the music just keeps on flowing, and no timing issues at all now.

Debs

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by nigelb

naim_nymph posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
My own Naim Super Lumina v Chord Sarum Super ARAY home system bake off will kick off on Monday using my CDS3/XPS2. Currently a HiLine connects it to my preamp.
I was going to DR my amp first but I've never been a particularly patient person - indecisive sometimes though
I did try Chord Sarum Tuned ARAY a while ago and though I am not 100% of the timing it was certainly with SBLs and probably with 282/250.2.
When i first listened at home using SA on both my CDS3, and LP12 i found the wider frequency window and extra bass needed some settle time, i don't know what in the system needs time to settle [or adjust] perhaps the circuit boards in the pre and power, and/or my SBLs which have had all their electronics replaced with new only 5 years ago. But the initial effect was one of odd timing.
I have a theory that even with the cable(s) already burned-in, there will be some settle time needed if/when the cable is plugged into another system, and i'm finding that 24 - 48 hours is where mystrons seem to mysteriously settle.
Using my LP12 for the first time with SA i found it took 5 LPs to sort out a weird timing issue,but from then on after my SBLs are reproducing a depth of bass that i've never heard from SBLs before - not even with an active 4 pack, and it's rich in high resolution clarity and sense of realism. After a couple of weeks the music just keeps on flowing, and no timing issues at all now.
Debs

I too noticed a more extended bass with the SA IC (compared to the SL IC) but this deeper bass wasn't particularly well controlled. I had the SA IC on trial for a week so it should have settled in but I could never achieve the control at the very bottom end I wanted. I notice you use a 552 and others that have praised the SA's extended bass also use a 552. I am inclined to put my slight disappointment of the SA's deep bass down to the fact I am using a 252. It might be the added transparency and control of the 552 that manages to successfully resolve the deep bass offered by the SA. Of course the power amp and source may also play a part here.

Chris - looking forward to the results of your bake-off.

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by Gavin L

Chris Dolan posted:
Gavin L posted:

......... when I hear some of the critique of the SL, I do recognise it as pre XLR.
So would that amount to synergy or fault masking?

I am not sure in the case of IC and XLR, that I would call it synergy. It was like having only half the job done, putting it out of balance. In fact, given my 500 series setup, I had thought it should sound better than perhaps it did, until I completed the SL journey. I didn't notice this prior to moving house as the system was in a much larger room and I was able to use more volume. You could call that fault masking perhaps.

Posted on: 14 May 2016 by ken c

Gavin L posted:
ken c posted:
i only have SL IC between 552 and NDS and the SL snaxo -- so i dont have the so-called full loom. with my set up, i dont recognise the 'painful highs' you mention -- but that could be for a whole host of reasons -- one of which could be i am less sensitive to it, or room acoustics, or ...
run in could be factor though. how long have you been running the 252 now? and how often have you been switching it on and off as you did various tests? sorry, probably belongs to your other thread...
enjoy
ken
Hi Ken,
My Recommendation would be to try the XLR, even before the speaker cables. I found it rounded out the sound - really developing the bass in the way the IC did for the mid. I would be very interested to hear if you find the same difference as I did and I think you will find it improves things a lot.
I did not audition the Sarum - on the basis that I am working towards that top end (pre Statement) Naim sound. However, when I hear some of the critique of the SL, I do recognise it as pre XLR.
For me, I am still running in, and things are edgy in an exciting way (very active style). Last night I listened to Wish You Were Here (album) for the first time in a while. The volume was higher than usual and I was somewhat shocked when the drums came in - I could almost feel them!
Gavin

Interesting Gavin, many thanks.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 19 May 2016 by eagle3333

I finally seem to have sorted my harshness issues after installing the new blocks. Back in went the SL. And hooray - I got the result I was hoping for; now it works without exacerbating the previous SQ issue. Little bit more about the SQ on the 'harshness' thread. The excitement, emotive reach and the way the sound draws you into the recording now comes at no cost and remains ahead of the SA, so I'm sold.

Nigel - I'm very pleased I didn't need to make that compromise! I would always have thought to myself - 'lovely, but I know how much more thrilling this can sound..' +1 for the SL.

I wonder how it would sound with an SL DIN/XLR, too?!

Posted on: 19 May 2016 by dave marshall

eagle3333 posted:
I finally seem to have sorted my harshness issues after installing the new blocks. Back in went the SL. And hooray - I got the result I was hoping for; now it works without exacerbating the previous SQ issue. Little bit more about the SQ on the 'harshness' thread. The excitement, emotive reach and the way the sound draws you into the recording now comes at no cost and remains ahead of the SA, so I'm sold.
Nigel - I'm very pleased I didn't need to make that compromise! I would always have thought to myself - 'lovely, but I know how much more thrilling this can sound..' +1 for the SL.
I wonder how it would sound with an SL DIN/XLR, too?!

It'll sound marvellous............I added the SL Din / XLR as the final part of the equation, having already installed the speaker cables and Din / Din interconnect, and doing this simply furthered the improvements experienced till then.

I did baulk somewhat at the cost of a pair of these cables, but after having them on trial for over three weeks, the decision was straightforward.

Dave.