To stream or not to stream?

Thanks everyone for the great feedback.  As Alan33 has suggested, I will "jump in, the water's fine"!

PCD - I'd be really interested on the outcome of your demo tomorrow.

i am flexible about what equipment I choose. Frankly, if the NDX a shows a worthwhile improvement, I'm happy to stretch to that. I'm picking up on some comments that I appear to be under-invested.  Again, great advice that I appreciate.

Time to order the NAS etc

As well as the NDX/SN2, do try the 272/250DR. It has a number of advantages, such as better volume control, no interconnect to upgrade, and a much better power amp, but is slightly less flexible for upgrading. 

If it gives you any reassurance, I'm hopeless with IT but have been streaming happily with Minim on a Synology and live to tell the tale.

You are almost certain to get in a pickle at some point, but there will always be someone to help, either here or on the Minim forum.

Just to point out that you don't actually need a NAS to get started streaming.  I started out (& still run) using a Win 8 / 10 PC running Minimserver.  Worked first time and sounds just fine.  If your CDs are already ripped you can get going very quickly once you have the streamer;  install Minimserver on your networked PC / MAC, point it at your music folder and off you go.  There may or may not be SQ & convenience advantages for a NAS but that can be explored when time allows.

Good point(s) Nick,  reminds me of a friend who had to vacate his house for an extended period & rather than move all the system he bought an ex-dem SuperUniti, copied his favourite albums onto a few hi-capacity USB sticks, put the main system in storage & with some borrowed bookshelf speakers,  had a great time.  More than one way to skin a rabbit - & BTW - USB replay is probably as good as it gets SQ wise,  its a bit clunky having to read the naim front panel display & play on the remote,  but not much different from having to stand up, find & change a CD.

nyron59 posted:

Time to order the NAS etc

If you don't already have an iPad, make that part of the 'etc.' Streaming has a lot going for it, but loses the tactility of vinyl or CD. Using an iPad as an interface goes a fair way to restoring it. Still, nothing replaces the pleasure of reading through the CD booklet while the music is playing ; PDFs just don't cut it for me. I keep a pile of my latest CD purchases near my streaming system for that purpose, the rest filed away in the basement listening room where the CDX still sees regular use. Nothing beats a swing-out tray on a Naim CD player !

Jan

"Still, nothing replaces the pleasure of reading through the CD booklet while the music is playing"

A poor substitute for an album cover in my opinion. In fact a large ipad might even be preferable to a CD booklet with microscopic print if the information is available, several post here have indicated it might not be so simple, particularly when ripping multi composer classical CDs.

I'm on the verge of investigating streaming myself, largely driven by running out of LP storeage space, no CD shelves would give me room for another 1000 LPs but mucking about with lists on a screen is very unappealing if spotify is anything to go by.

yeti42 posted:

"Still, nothing replaces the pleasure of reading through the CD booklet while the music is playing"

A poor substitute for an album cover in my opinion.

Agreed, yet so much 'new' classical music is only available on CD.

Still, nothing replaces the pleasure of reading through the CD booklet while the music is playing

A poor substitute for an album cover in my opinion.  

 ..............    & further down the the poor substitutes,  those Rovi things are an extremely poor substitute for even the CD booklets

I know this thread hasn't generally been about the remote streaming services, but one of the attractions of Qobuz is the access they give to CD booklets while using their streaming.

Real music listening is completely about NOT READING the programme notes!

If the music is so rubbish that you have to have visual diversion from it to fully occupy the soul then the chosen music is not worth your time!

ATB from George

I'm sorry, George, but that is such tosh. I have gained enormously when listening to long and difficult classical works by reading notes that help signpost the form of the piece, eg by Donald Tovey. And even if you don't want to do that, surely you can see the point of texts and translations for sung works? 

Although it looks as though we have two polarised positions, I find I'm in the middle and agree with both position, just not at the same time!  I agree with reading notes either before or after listening, just not while listening!

2 quick questions

1. As a newbie to this forum, how do I do a direct response to someone's point, in the same way as in Mike B has done it a few posts above?

2. What is a Rovi?

To reply to someone,  just write the posters name & "re your point  ..x..y..z... "  or touch the "Take Action" tab & reply with quote.  But IMO these quotes of quotes can be a bit tiresome as they take up a huge amount of screen space & I think they need editing down to minimal.

Rovi is a www service that provides some reading on the album being played,  You touch the little book logo on the app.   The content is a bit muddled & the write up on the album is someone's opinion.  It can be a bit unreliable such as does not display the right album,  but mostly its OK,  its an OK thing to have as there are no real alternatives

Thanks Mike for that clarification.

Rovi is presented within the Naim app (phone or tabler controller for Naim streamers) when playing an album, clicking opens some info. I found pretty dull compared to actual album sleeve, often incorrect (eg wrong track listing if there are several versions of an album), and many of mine simply not in the database. But one nice feature was a listing of similar (in someone's opinion) music from other artists, making potential suggestions for new music to seek out.

Using Audirvana on Mac Mini (into Hugo via  Gustard isolator/convertor, which replaced my Naim streamer, i no longer have the Rovi link - but I don't miss it. I just with library designers (Audirvana, Naim and all others) would provide a simple in-app link to view files on one's own network: i photographed all album sleeves of interest when I digitised my LP collection, and some CDs, and of course much could be sourced online and downloaded.

Thanks everyone for all the advice.

NAS, WD drives and Switch now ordered!

Nyron

Coming late into this thread. I noticed you have already received great advice on fundamentals of a network set up and ripping.

Few points to observe when setting up your NAS streaming:

1. Try to keep your network power supplies away from your Naim i.e if possible use a different mains spur
2. Beware of grounding / earthing issues that some Ethernet cables (notably Cat-7) can introduce to your network. You may end up with multiple grounds in your system

Adam

Single earth location applies to ANY shielded cable of any Category, not just Cat 7.

The single earth location will normally need to be the Naim streamer as that connect the Ethernet shield (if present) to the power supply and signal earth.

The easy way out is to not use screened (STP) ethernet, its not needed in domestic environments & getting it wrong with unwanted extra earths & other things can make things worse.   I will add that STP done right,  is 100% OK

Huge posted:

Although it looks as though we have two polarised positions, I find I'm in the middle and agree with both position, just not at the same time!  I agree with reading notes either before or after listening, just not while listening!

Yes, read the notes first, or afterwards. but certainly not during the music itself. 

As for text translations, I suspect that one should learn the text first to fully understand the music. Consequently I know only about five operas by heart!  Mozart’s Don Giovanni, Marriage Of Figaro, Cosi Fan Tutti, and the Magic Flute, as well as Beethoven’s Fidelio. Otherwise I tend to find opera pretty much indigestible fare!

One of the reasons I enjoy settings of the Mass is because the Latin is second nature to me by now. 

ATB from George

There are two distinctly different parts to the information often found in record sleeves (whether the record is in LP, CD or 'electronic' format): notes about the recording/artist(s) erc, and lyrics/libretto. These define for me what I might enjoy looking at before playing, especially with a new work or one I haven't looked at for years, and what I might look at when listening.

Following the lyrics can be helpful when listening to music with singing - i recall the arguments in school as to whether Jimi Hendrix was singing "excuse me while I kiss the sky", or "excuse me while I kiss this guy"... And with any opera live I really want there to be surtitles or other display in English although I can still enjoy it without once familiar it is always better with. Naturally the same is true with recorded music listening at home, especially any works new to me - so I have kept CDs with libretti even though Ripped and played from hard disk - it ws too much effort to consider scanning the pages to be able to read on a screen, though possibly i could find online if I were to search.

Mike-B posted:

The easy way out is to not use screened (STP) ethernet, its not needed in domestic environments & getting it wrong with unwanted extra earths & other things can make things worse.   I will add that STP done right,  is 100% OK

I'm not sure if I'm following the technicalities of the last couple of posts around this. My site location for the router and the streamer are going to be adjacent to one another. Same mains supply. Is this going to be a significant problem?  I was simply intending to use Cat 5 cable.

No problems to have streamer & router close & on the same power supply,  Cat-5 is not screened anyhow so the points in my post are irrelevant.  However you probably will find it hard to get Cat-5,  the current spec is Cat-5e - or for peanuts (£$) more Cat-6.      

nyron59 posted:

Mike-B posted:

The easy way out is to not use screened (STP) ethernet, its not needed in domestic environments & getting it wrong with unwanted extra earths & other things can make things worse.   I will add that STP done right,  is 100% OK

I'm not sure if I'm following the technicalities of the last couple of posts around this. My site location for the router and the streamer are going to be adjacent to one another. Same mains supply. Is this going to be a significant problem?  I was simply intending to use Cat 5 cable.

One source of a potential 'problem' may be a switch-mode power supply, that usually comes with consumer electronics like routers and NAS. They tend to be quite 'noisy' and can 'polute' the mains.

If at all possible, it is advisable to plug them to a separate mains spur that Naim.