NAIM Suggestion box item

The NAP250.2 has always been deceptive - it's by far the heaviest of the regular sized boxes and probably not far off the weight of the other heavyweights - the NAP500 head unit and the CD555 head unit. If you're used to the heft of a NAP200 or even the original  NAP250 then the extra heft of the later 250 (and 250DR) really comes as a shock.  

And then there's the Statement...

However, it's the CD555 head unit that almost gave me a hernia.  We were at the Montreal show in the Sheraton and we  were investigating a strange RF phenomenon that necessitated me carrying the CD555 around different parts of the room with Dougie carrying the PS which was plugged into a long extension lead.  So strange was the phenomenon that I think everyone seemed to forget that I was carrying much the heaviest bit and after almost 10 minutes of trying to keep it nice and level my arms and back were screaming.  Strange days...

" If you're used to the heft of a NAP200 " .. exactly Richard .. same form factor, should be same weight or so I thought .. Oh no.

Nice story about the CD555 .. I'll make sure I don't buy one.  

John, try 62KG unpacked for the Statement Pre then!  100KG in flight case  The monoblock amps are 100KG *each* (140KG in flight case) so in a way I am glad I down have to lug those around!

Hi Richard have you heard the 250 DR yet? If so, what do you think?

The 250DR at 15.8kg only just pips the 555PS at 15.7. You certainly get more pounds per pound. 

analogmusic posted:

Hi Richard have you heard the 250 DR yet? If so, what do you think?

It's not what it sounds like, it's what it weighs that counts. 

Richard Dane posted:

The NAP250.2 has always been deceptive - it's by far the heaviest of the regular sized boxes and probably not far off the weight of the other heavyweights - the NAP500 head unit and the CD555 head unit. If you're used to the heft of a NAP200 or even the original  NAP250 then the extra heft of the later 250 (and 250DR) really comes as a shock.  

And then there's the Statement...

However, it's the CD555 head unit that almost gave me a hernia.  We were at the Montreal show in the Sheraton and we  were investigating a strange RF phenomenon that necessitated me carrying the CD555 around different parts of the room with Dougie carrying the PS which was plugged into a long extension lead.  So strange was the phenomenon that I think everyone seemed to forget that I was carrying much the heaviest bit and after almost 10 minutes of trying to keep it nice and level my arms and back were screaming.  Strange days...

CD 555 is quite one of the most unnerving,  once you removed the transit screws you also need

steady hands  to not shake the subchassis.

I 'm also also scared at the idea to handle the forthcoming S600 since just  one of them is heavier than myself

Regards

Roberto

Also the nap 500 dr has 388 watts at 1 ohm where as the  nap 250 dr has 385 watts at 1 ohm.... FFS how do you work out those ratios ?

Toby where did you get these figures from? that is quite interesting....

.......from the recently published HFN test lab mini bit ..

As I understand it, the idea is in a 'properly' designed amplifier, the watts should double every time the ohms are halved. It seems most odd that the two amplifiers, which are rated very differently at 8 ohms, end up so close at 1 ohm. Anyway, they both go very loud. 

they are different designs though, the bridged design of NAP 500

per the website "A bridged configuration allow for maximised open and closed loop speed, less intrusive protection circuitry and reduced interaction between input and output signals as the very high drive currents to the loudspeaker do not flow through the system earth"

Similar to 552, the split rail apparently reduces noise in signal earth to almost zero.

But why is system earth so important? Richard?

Hungryhalibut posted:

analogmusic posted:

Hi Richard have you heard the 250 DR yet? If so, what do you think?

It's not what it sounds like, it's what it weighs that counts. 

No HH, I have to disagree .. I played the system for about 12 hours today on iRadio, a wonderful blues channel 181 FM True Blues, minimum volume, burbling in the background.

I just played the whole of Tchaikovsky's 1st Violin concerto with Mehta/Zuckerman .. LOUD .. it was just superb.  AND I know it will only get better.  Weight be damned man.

The 200 was good, in fact it was very good, but it didn't have the presence of the 250DR .. the music is crisper and more in focus.  Yet to play any of my rock or acoustic blues; I think I'll leave that exploration until tomorrow.  

John Willmott posted:

My kindly UPS man wheeled my new NAIM 250DR into my listening room early last night.  Opening the carton and placing it into the rack this morning I realized there was something missing .. a back brace .. 

I suspect you 500 guys have to be in tremendous shape to move your equipment in and out of the racks .. or do you hire a crew to do it for you ?

 

 

I just give SWMBO a shout... she's a tennis player... apparently the muscles needed to whack a ball down a court at close to 100mph are the same as those needed to shift a NAP500 on and off a Fraim.

you know its expensive because it weighs a lot

I remember when I had all 6 boxes of a Naim system delivered on the same day (including a 250.2). The delivery guy was not impressed. The entire lot (including a pair of 23s) was tightly bound onto a aircraft pallet for shipping from the UK. FedEx made me pay for the pallet so technically it was mine. The guy huffed and puffed getting it all off the pallet and looked like he was about to have a sroke. And after all that I made him take the pallet away (what do I want with 20KGs of splintery wood after all?)

Hi-fi be darn heavy. In 1996 whilst working in the trade, I was struggling to get a Linn Keltik up a flight of stairs into a demonstration room. I was the one holding the bottom end. Hand slipped and 45Kgs of Keltik on the end of a spike came to puncture my trousers and enter leg. Excruciating. I think my boss at the time just said "Don't be such a pansy and use some muscles if you have any."

TOBYJUG posted:

Also the nap 500 dr has 388 watts at 1 ohm where as the  nap 250 dr has 385 watts at 1 ohm.... FFS how do you work out those ratios ?

The 500DR has 1100VA (watts) of transient power available, the 250.2DR has 400VA. When the speakers need power for huge crescendos or rock "punch" the 500 can pump the power to deliver the burst of additional dB headroom. Peaks can be 25dB higher than the song average.

Feeling_zen, how is british hi-fi sold in Japan? to my knowledge none of Naim kit is double insulated?

 

 

The 200 was good, in fact it was very good, but it didn't have the presence of the 250DR .. the music is crisper and more in focus.  Yet to play any of my rock or acoustic blues; I think I'll leave that exploration until tomorrow.  

I agree the 200 is a very good amplifier, but the 250Dr is just a much better one.

I think there was been some talk on other forums that the Naim unregulated amps like 160 and 200 are faster and more dynamic than the regulated ones like 250 (yet strangely nobody has mentioned the 135 as being slow, although it is regulated) , but this latest 250DR is extremely fast and dynamic with my 282/HCDR.

I don't have any reservations with 250 DR compared to 200...

analogmusic posted:

Feeling_zen, how is british hi-fi sold in Japan? to my knowledge none of Naim kit is double insulated?

 

Well Naim pulled out of Japan in 2008. For a starter 99% of all plug sockets have no female earth pin and second, it's the only country that uses 100v. They sold so few items here and the cost of the QA test rig for their limited number of 100v transformers meant that each item sold cost them about GBP1000 to test and legally certify for sale. Which is a loss on most items.

Chord, Linn, Cambridge Audio all do very brisk sales in Japan (but not as much as Mark Levinson or McIntosh). Of course bought on spec alone since demo facilities are truly Foxtrot Sierra. Not the above are all switchmode transformer designs. So you won't find NAD out here either which is a shame because NAD would mop the floor with most of the lower cost stuff in its price range.

feeling_zen posted:

you know its expensive because it weighs a lot

I remember when I had all 6 boxes of a Naim system delivered on the same day (including a 250.2). The delivery guy was not impressed. The entire lot (including a pair of 23s) was tightly bound onto a aircraft pallet for shipping from the UK. FedEx made me pay for the pallet so technically it was mine. The guy huffed and puffed getting it all off the pallet and looked like he was about to have a sroke. And after all that I made him take the pallet away (what do I want with 20KGs of splintery wood after all?)

Hi-fi be darn heavy. In 1996 whilst working in the trade, I was struggling to get a Linn Keltik up a flight of stairs into a demonstration room. I was the one holding the bottom end. Hand slipped and 45Kgs of Keltik on the end of a spike came to puncture my trousers and enter leg. Excruciating. I think my boss at the time just said "Don't be such a pansy and use some muscles if you have any."

As an (ex) health & safety consultant I still have to bite my tongue slightly when watching dealers move/deliver speakers in particular - usually with '2 man lift' logos on the box - in ways that suggest any manual handling training was less than optimal...

In advance of any Littlejohn-esque responses, if one's lifting even 30kg speakers/kit without much idea of what you're doing, you're at major risk of a nasty injury/long term musculoskeletal damage... Given in my experience it tends to be the younger, non-owner staff at dealers doing the lifting, it'd be really worthwhile training them... If/when they break themselves, the resulting case against the employer wouldn't take long!

I've trained myself not to comment in person as a volley of abuse (not from hifi dealers...) often offends. 

Mu-so family is alive and doing very well in Japan, we have a constant  search for a classic range distributor and when found-we will be back, many moons ago Japan was our biggest export market for a while.

Paul Stephenson posted:

Mu-so family is alive and doing very well in Japan, we have a constant  search for a classic range distributor and when found-we will be back, many moons ago Japan was our biggest export market for a while.

How do you envision overcoming the other obstacles? I seem to recall it was someone at Naim who told me about the horrific testing cost associated with a limited number of 100v transformers. I don't see the earthing situation improving either.