Non sound altering power conditioners

Lots has been written about power conditioners on here over the years.  I would first suggest conducting a search and reading through old threads on the subject.

However, if you don't wish to take the time then the bottom line is this; power conditioners, whatever their make, cost, reputation, on Naim kit may or may not solve your problem, but invariably they cause another in its place - they adversely affect Naim sound performance.

Yeah, I could have searched, but I was hoping to hear from someone who may have found one that didn't affect SQ noticeably. Never know what might be out there somewhere  My buzzing isn't too bad, and it is easy to find the cause in my house, so I can do without if none exist. Some people will just have to play in the dark when I am listening to my music!

Audience Adept Response are the best I've come across... and are the only recommended conditioners for Naim gear by AV Options (U.S. Naim distributor of some ren-kown). I've got two of their units in my listening room.... a 2 outlet ARP2 which I use to condition my high noise digital devices (TV, mac mini, cable box... etc.) and a aR6 unit with I use to condition my hifi gear. 

Rather than drown on about the design features that keep noise at bay, you can just google them.. lots of info on their web site. 

I should add that I can't say whether or not the Audience units would solve the problem you've described... but if you are looking for something that will provide protection and "do no harm" in terms of sound degradation... I would recommend the Audience products.

Thanks for the info zipperhead .. I will check them out!

Before getting too carried away with power conditioners, make 100% sure you don't have an earth loop. Disconnect all sources and then re-connect one at a time to see if one (or a particular combo) triggers that buzz.

winkyincanada posted:

Before getting too carried away with power conditioners, make 100% sure you don't have an earth loop. Disconnect all sources and then re-connect one at a time to see if one (or a particular combo) triggers that buzz.

+1 to that advice.

Also if it's a particular dimmer or type of dimmer, then changing the dimmer(s) for ones that don't do it will probably be a lot cheaper than a mains conditioner.

And you could also look at a separate supply from your consumer unit ("fuse box") to where your hifi is because the impedance of the mains supply is probably going to be low enough at that point to kill much of the mains wiring-borne interference.

best

David

winkyincanada posted:

Before getting too carried away with power conditioners, make 100% sure you don't have an earth loop. Disconnect all sources and then re-connect one at a time to see if one (or a particular combo) triggers that buzz.

It is caused by a florescent light fixture, and one dimmer switch nearby. It sends a buzz to my HC only when either are on. When they are off, all is well. 

David Hendon posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Before getting too carried away with power conditioners, make 100% sure you don't have an earth loop. Disconnect all sources and then re-connect one at a time to see if one (or a particular combo) triggers that buzz.

+1 to that advice.

Also if it's a particular dimmer or type of dimmer, then changing the dimmer(s) for ones that don't do it will probably be a lot cheaper than a mains conditioner.

And you could also look at a separate supply from your consumer unit ("fuse box") to where your hifi is because the impedance of the mains supply is probably going to be low enough at that point to kill much of the mains wiring-borne interference.

best

David

I wasn't aware that certain dimmers don't cause this. I guess I will have to do some research on that one. My fuse box is 2 stories down from my hi-fi, not gonna happen. Although, I wish I could. 

Well I would replace the dimmer switch with another model (they are electronic devices and there are endless different designs available). And get the whole fluorescent fitting replaced with a new one, or consider not using fluorescent lighting at all.  There are numerous options for lighting today.  Some may be worse that what you have of course, but mostly Naim users don't have these problems! You probably need to employ an electrician to do make these changes, to be sure to be safe, unless you know what you are doing. But they aren't a big deal to alter at all.

best

David

There are plenty of dimmers and items powered by switched-mode (SM) supplies that I've learned to turn off if I want to hear my system at its best - so that is what I do. Some SM supplies are fine, some poor and some diabolical - and there is no way to tell but try turning them on/off and determining if you hear it. A lot of things I leave on, as they don't seem to have a really bad effect, but things like chargers for portable devices of any kind seem among the worst offenders. Another trick is to use a filter block for these devices and not your HiFi as this works for me - although again I found some filter blocks seem better than others.

But most people seem to want their house lit-up with all sorts of little devices snarling away at the mains all the time - personal choice. Distance does help, so the farther the noise-injecting device is from your HiFi firstly in terms of mains cable and secondly in actual distance, the better, as it does get attenuated.

DB.

Old & cheap dimmer switches are noisy,  modern switches are a lot quieter & by some margin.  Modern switches are better designs,   but watch out as they are specific to the lamp load and/or can be programmed for the lamp load type.  They can be expensive but its important to use a switch that is designed for the purpose.    I use MK switches as a rule,  some are programmable,  others are not but are intended for use with resistive loads such as incandesant & halogen lamps.  Dimmable LED lamps are very fussy & its a good idea to ask the lamp manufacturer for advice if unsure.            This is a good read to add some ideas (or confusion)  https://www.universal-lighting...orrect-dimmer-switch

For the price of one of those Adept Response thingies, you could probably replace the offending light fittings, and have enough cash left for a nice holiday. Better to sort out the source of the problem, I'd have thought.

Hello Gothifi... Reading your OP are you talking about hum coming from the HC transformer or from the audio coming from the speakers?

if it's the former then increased hum, usually a sharpish buzz, is caused by the mains coming asymmetrical or what is sometimes known as a DC offset. DC offset removers are used by severeal on this forum and the majority view on the forum  suggests that they produce no audible downside.. just quieter transformers.

if the hum is coming from the speakers caused by something being switch on in the house, then I agree the sources causing the hum are probably best removed or replaced... There are so called mains conditioners that can reconstruct or filter the mains to reduce this RF noise in the mains but  according to this forum they can seemingly often compromise sound quality in other areas.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

if it's the former then increased hum, usually a sharpish buzz, is caused by the mains coming asymmetrical or what is sometimes known as a DC offset. DC offset removers are used by several on this forum and the majority view on the forum  suggests that they produce no audible downside.. just quieter transformers.

Speaking of my own DC filter,  if anything it has a positive effect on SQ.  I will quickly add that may not be true of all filters that claim to block DC.   Mine blocks DC & nothing more & it does it with just two circuit components.  I have no details on the circuit designs of the commercial makes on the market,  the pricing suggests they are far more complex than my design - or they are an absolute rip-of.    My concern is they might contain C&D mode filters & as such will be series chokes & X&Y capacitors in shunt,  & the capacitors IME do cause detrimental effects on SQ.     Final point is do not take it as 'a given' that a DC filter will make a noisy transformer quiet,  it won't;  it will stop the variable tone & volume changes that DC causes,  but if the transformer is naturally noisy it will not change that.

+1 to Simon and Mike's posts.

Like Mike, I also built a specialist filter designed specifically for the problems on the mains where I live, and matched to my audio system.  (Mike and I have similar designs, just not quite the same.  N.B.  Actual advice on building DIY mains devices like these is against the forum Acceptable Usage Policy).

Form my experiments, as Mike says, it's the shunt capacitors that degrade the sound with audio electronics.  Unfortunately all the cheap commercial filters use this technique to remove conducted RFI.

David Hendon posted:

Well I would replace the dimmer switch with another model (they are electronic devices and there are endless different designs available). And get the whole fluorescent fitting replaced with a new one, or consider not using fluorescent lighting at all.  There are numerous options for lighting today.  Some may be worse that what you have of course, but mostly Naim users don't have these problems! You probably need to employ an electrician to do make these changes, to be sure to be safe, unless you know what you are doing. But they aren't a big deal to alter at all.

best

David

Yeah, this fixture is original from '85 .. that is why I have this problem lol ... Thanks for the advice, I am going to replace it. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hello Gothifi... Reading your OP are you talking about hum coming from the HC transformer or from the audio coming from the speakers?

if it's the former then increased hum, usually a sharpish buzz, is caused by the mains coming asymmetrical or what is sometimes known as a DC offset. DC offset removers are used by severeal on this forum and the majority view on the forum  suggests that they produce no audible downside.. just quieter transformers.

if the hum is coming from the speakers caused by something being switch on in the house, then I agree the sources causing the hum are probably best removed or replaced... There are so called mains conditioners that can reconstruct or filter the mains to reduce this RF noise in the mains but  according to this forum they can seemingly often compromise sound quality in other areas.

Simon

Hi Simon, thanks for the reply. The buzz is coming from the transformer itself, I have never had any buzzing or humming come out of my speakers. Your comment about DC offset is why I had asked about the EMOTIVA CMX-2 in my OP. I was curious if anyone here was running any such device without affecting the SQ. The cost of this DC offset filter is about as much as 2 good dimmer switches. 

Thanks so much for all the replies! I have decided to remove the florescent fixture, and all dimmers in the house and replace lighting with Philips Hue. They dim, without dimmers. I will update on how that works out, hopefully they won't introduce something new to the circuit that is undesirable. If they do, it won't be so bad as it is mainly the florescent that is causing the issue as the other lights can be turned off when I am listening. 

Got Hi-Fi? posted:

Thanks so much for all the replies! I have decided to remove the florescent fixture, and all dimmers in the house and replace lighting with Philips Hue. They dim, without dimmers. I will update on how that works out, hopefully they won't introduce something new to the circuit that is undesirable. If they do, it won't be so bad as it is mainly the florescent that is causing the issue as the other lights can be turned off when I am listening. 

They effectively have the dimmer built in, controlled by wifi. Anyway as you say you should be able to turn those off. Anyway I hope your journey towards lighting and audio nirvana goes well!

best

David

Hi GotHifi,  I doubt many folks on the forum have experienced the Emotiva CMX-2,  it appears to be USA (120vAC x 60Hz) only.  Reading the blurb it appears to be specifically made for DC offset & looking inside it looks to be using the same circuit principle as the old PS Audio Humbuster.   It does this with a choke & X&Y shunt capacitors.   My opinion on shunt capacitors (see previous post) is I found they do negatively affect SQ,  but that might not be the case with this unit & only your ears listening to your system can be the judge of that.

This is what it looks like inside  ...............  

I agree with Mike. When I tried the PS Audio Humbuster five years ago, it did eliminate my transformer hum, but at a cost. Since then, I've used an Isotek Syncro to connect my Audience aR6 PDC to the wall socket. While expensive, this Isotek power cord has done a fine job of removing DC offset from the mains. It has eliminated all my transformer hum, and it has done so without "dumbing down" the sound quality.

ATB.

Hook

A year or so ago, I ran a thread entitled "Suffering from those transformer hum blues?"

If you search for it, there is some information about balanced power supplies (BPS).  I also tried a high calibre mains "cleaner" from ISOL-8, but that caused music to lose its sense of rhythm & timing.

The BPS worked for me, with no discernable downsides (other than a marked increase in the purchase of new vinyl & CDs!) but may not for others.

A BPS is considerably less expensive than an effective mains regenerator, though probably somewhat more than Mike-B's DC blocker.

Hope this helps, FT

Foot tapper posted:

...............   probably somewhat more than Mike-B's DC blocker.

I just costed the bits for mine,  £35 for the parts, box, internal wire & screws,   plus an hours labour.

Yes, about £500 more than Mike-B's DC blocker but about £5000 less than a mains regenerator that can support Naim power amps transformers.