SBLs Yorkshire

The SBL needs a lot better amplification than the 112/150 in my experience. You'd be much better off going for a 72 with 160, 180 or 250, and a Hicap for the 72. Properly driven, they are great speakers, even after all these years. 

pod03 posted:

Afternoon Folks,

Having had my LP12 serviced and upgraded recently plus expecting to buy a 112/150 combination soon to replace my 1990ish NVA AP30 I am also looking at speakers and wondered if anybody near Pontefract in Yorkshire was still using SBLs and would not mind me listening to them for half an hour at some point?

Cheers,

Mark

You can easily use SBL's on 112/150, its just this is not the best match by far - these older amplifiers are selling cheap because noone wants the 112 and the early 150, I'd much rather have a Nait or one of the suggested above and most are easy to resell when or if you wish more umph

Give me you email address if you like.

I'm a bit further away but you'd be welcome to listen. However my system hardly representative of what you might get in your home with your equipment. I'm also about to switch to SL2s in the next couple of weeks.

I also agree that, despite their manifest pleasures, your system will struggle to get them going. They are not a difficult load as such but they are not terribly forgiving. They may also be unable to produce satisfying bass with that amp etc. They can do wonderful bass but it does take more front end investment. Good value s/h SBLs may be but not sure that would be where I'd spend my money in your situation unless I was sure and intended to keep them for many years as I improved the little black boxes.

Have you thought about nSats? I know there are hundreds of speaker options out there but they are very good-and I have a pair of those on a 'Qute fronted system that are really very good.

Bruce

Thanks folks,

I am not set on the SBLs so I will keep your thoughts on suitable amplifiers in mind. If the 112 will do it, I might run SBLs active with two lowish power stereo power amps. I am also currently thinking about Audio Note and Zu Audio speakers.

Bruce - I might take you up on the offer if you pmail me I dare say that I will be able to figure out how to reply.

Cheers,

Mark

I ran active SBls at start with 2 x 140. Obviously you need a SNAXO, a power supply for that and 2 lots of speakers cables.

I really think hearing my system is going to be a huge step up from where you are-it shows the potential perhaps but not what you will get anywhere near now. See my profile for the details

Bruce

Moderated Post: Bruce, I've removed the e-mail address.  I would remind all here that for your own security Naim doesn't want anyone posting their e-mail address on here (no matter how disguised you may think it is) as it is viewable by anyone, not just members.  Thanks.

pod03 posted:

Thanks folks,

. I am also currently thinking about Audio Note and Zu Audio speakers.

 

Mark

Way different presentation vs SBL so you need to go out listen what you prefer

no need to buy new amp as I think the NVA will be fine on easier speakers as above

Hi B_Lund - you may well be right - I suspect the B&W Concept 90 CM2 (1987ish) speakers with their early metal domes are holding the system back and might be first to be changed. If I can get the right sound with the AP30 that would be great; however, I really would like a remote control for volume and I can imagine that the NVA likely needs a re-cap so the 112/150 might just get hold of the B&Ws sufficiently to not change the speakers. I assume that I can use the NVA as a phono amp.

Cheers,

Mark

pod03 posted:

wondered if anybody ..... was still using SBLs.....

By 'eck lad, you've some cheek! Only just got mine! Am not in Yorks though.

Chris

Sorry moderator.

what is it with the 112 that it is disliked, but the NAC 12, 32.5, 42, 62 and 72 are well regarded?

In fact Nac 12 was used in factory to check new produced NAC 52 before putting them in boxes !

I know nap 112 has resistor ladder volume control, but so did early nait 5, and nobody complains about that one?

I also read lots of comments about 202, but it was the 202 that first got my attention that Naim was something special.

I do wonder, sometimes... Same kit, different ears?

It's not that it's bad per se, it's just that all the others are better. 

I know you owned Naim a lot longer than i have HH, but on my limited experience, very careful system setup is required to get the best out of any Naim set up... I am sure you would agree?

I'm not sure how that question follows from what went before, but I'd agree, with the proviso that the further you go up the tree the more sensitive the system becomes to setup. Something like the CD5i and Nait 5i are pretty well plug and play, so long as they are on a light rigid stand and the wires are decent. I'm not sure that counts as 'very careful' though. 

When I got my first Naim in 1983, I had my LP12 in the middle, on a wooden stand from Sound Advice, with the 42 on the left and the 110 and snaps on the right. The snaps sat on the 110, and the 42 and 110 both sat on concrete blocks liberated from a building site between the Uni and my flat. Sounded great with a pair of Kans on Kan2 stands and a couple of lengths of NACA4. 

pod03 posted:

....NVA likely needs a re-cap so the 112/150 might just get hold of the B&Ws sufficiently to not change the speakers.  .....

Trouble is, Mark, so will the NAP150 in the 112/ 150. I think you might get more joy with an early Nait XS into the B&Ws. The XS (which came out in 2008) is almost universally respected here. And, believe me, that's saying something.

I've looked online for your B&W's spec ... can't see them so not easily able to say how tightly damped they are. If they are, this makes them a good match with Naim amps, generally, imo. Plenty will disagree and say the damping is neither here nor there. Get some Naca5 wires too for best performance. Again, just an opinion.

Cheers, Chris

Hungryhalibut posted:

I'm not sure how that question follows from what went before, but I'd agree, with the proviso that the further you go up the tree the more sensitive the system becomes to setup. Something like the CD5i and Nait 5i are pretty well plug and play, so long as they are on a light rigid stand and the wires are decent. I'm not sure that counts as 'very careful' though. 

When I got my first Naim in 1983, I had my LP12 in the middle, on a wooden stand from Sound Advice, with the 42 on the left and the 110 and snaps on the right. The snaps sat on the 110, and the 42 and 110 both sat on concrete blocks liberated from a building site between the Uni and my flat. Sounded great with a pair of Kans on Kan2 stands and a couple of lengths of NACA4. 

HH the environment nowadays electrically is different than 1983, there are SMPS (phone chargers, etc) all over the home, injecting noise into the mains, I think you got a separate mains lines from the switch box to your hi-fi for your 272/250 DR and this is what I had in mind about in terms of careful set up to get best even from 112/150 level kit or Nait 5 level.

I agree. I'll bet 90% of people on here don't have dedicated mains, and it's one of the most cost effective things you can do. We have a separate consumer unit for the stereo, and separate earthing, which cost £200 when we had it done about ten years ago. 

Thanks Christopher_M,

A quick look for a Nait XS suggests over twice the price on ebay than the 112/150 that I am looking at from a dealer. I suspect that 112/150 will be better than the NVA. If you search for CM1-CM2-OM.pdf you will find the owners manual and a search for "b&w concept 90" will yield more detail - interesting and good speakers - but at least with my amp not really to my taste. If I get the 112/150 I will get the dealer to supply cables.

I heard a Supernait with my LP12 at Cymbiosis when I picked up my LP12 and I was not hugely impressed - my guess is that the problem was the speakers, as the sound was too clinical for my taste. Perhaps principally not enough bass weight.

I also heard a NAP 250 plus an active system with some Isobariks that I was looking at that had been refurbished. Those did sound better but did not blow me away as I had been hoping so I am considering a range of speaker options before making any decisions.

I am pretty sure that I do not have golden ears - I can barely tell the difference between my original Arcam Alpha Blackbox Delta CD player and my newly upgraded LP12 even on the same track - indeed I could barely hear the difference between a CD5XS and Klimax LP12 on the Supernait. However I am looking for a sweeter and fuller sound than I have now. It may be that my current system means that I have not educated my ears sufficiently. I can tell the difference between the phono stage on my NVA and a Sony STR DB795 though! I am however very wary of emperors new clothes. I am almost looking at the 112/150 as an amp with remote control that is good enough for me and that can be repaired long-term.

Cheers,

Mark

Christopher_M posted:

pod03 posted:

....NVA likely needs a re-cap so the 112/150 might just get hold of the B&Ws sufficiently to not change the speakers.  .....

Trouble is, Mark, so will the NAP150 in the 112/ 150. I think you might get more joy with an early Nait XS into the B&Ws. The XS (which came out in 2008) is almost universally respected here. And, believe me, that's saying something.

 

Cheers, Chris

Great advice from Chris, the purchase of old 112/150 might very well end up too expensive, the original Nait XS is fine as is a 5i or 3, depending on budget, who's buying Nac 112 these days ? - bet its the single most difficult Naim item selling maybe a few other contenders

Hi Mark,

It does sound as if the 112/ 150 has won your heart despite misgivings offered by a few of us here! Nonetheless, It's certainly got remote, it's certainly repairable, so it seems to meet your criteria.

I don't know if this helps but when I bought my 10yo NAP200 from a dealer, I had it sent straight to Darran at Class A for a recap, without me even hearing it. I needed to know that it was performing as well as it could from the beginning of my time of ownership, and feeding my pre to the very best of its abilities. it wasn't a huge wodge of cash, and it sounds like if you did the same for the NAP150, then the NAC112/ NAP150 combo might still come in at less for you than an eBay XS.

C.

Love my 112/150 and wont be changing it . 

Mark

not sure where u are up to, but I am in Preston, lancs with some SBL's.

Rob

If you want something in the current look, with remote, search out a 122x and 150x. The 122 is only a smidge more costly than the 112, but miles better. I had this combination for three years, and it's excellent. 

Mark,

just a few hopefully helpful impressions.

Re: 112/150 – I have owned it, the 112 is slightly more mellow that usual Naim preamps, has a narrower sound stage but, in turn, images well and is more focused that other preamps. Its sound is a little more 'meaty' and less 'airy' than other Naim amps, but it's ok to my ears. The 150 is a very good power amp, only not very bright, I remember having heard a pair of Harbeth C7s driven by it and they sounded great.

Re: SBLs – I have my second pair now, and heard it with a 150x, a SuperNait and with my current 202/200. Each time the speakers changed sound significantly; with the 150x, they were mellow and pleasant but one understood at once that they could do much more than that. So, Although a pair of SBLs can certainly sound with a 150x, it is not a set I would strongly recommend. SBLs request dedication, conviction, a profound commitment; the owner of 112/150 is, usually, someone who wants to have Naim without spending too much and without necessarily entering the crazy arena of the upgrade path. With somehow 'lively' speakers I think it would be a musically satisfying set.

On the one hand I'd say that an LP12 and SBLs would deserve more 'important' amplification, on the other one I wonder if 112 (or, as HH suggests, 122x) and 150 couldn't be a good solution with less demanding speakers. Hope this helps.

M

Amplification could well be your bottle neck in your system but I'm a huge fan of shahinian speakers however they too need good current from the driving amp. 

i had Naim kit driving my shahinian obelisks 2's but since moving to vitus you realise what people mean when they say they are not being driven properly. Don't get me wrong They sounded good  with my Naim kit but with the correct amplification it's amazing how speakers can really flourish.

Thanks all for your advice and offers. Some comments:

At the dealers I do plan to listen to at least another one other amp before making a final decision. I have had a look for 122s, the price difference is significant in this case and there appears few 122s available – nonetheless final decision has not been made.

I actually prefer the olive Naim style to the earlier and later styles – but then I would be looking at a 92/90, remote ones are not that common and I assume less good than 112/150.

From Massimo’s comments I like the idea of the 112/150 more – I prefer a mellower and meatier sound. I am trying to avoid the upgrade path. I am planning to listen to less demanding speakers as well, as part of the decision process.

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Mark