Exactly Where Does the 272 Sit in the Naim Hierarchy?

Above the 172... but seriously, since it's a streaming client, preamp and DAC, it doesn't slot neatly into the "traditional" hierarchy. I would place its preamp section on about the same level as that of the SN2, and its streaming client / DAC section at about NDX level. Other opinions will vary...

My short home demo albeit using a Chord power amp showed a much superior sound to the SN2 I had. Pure analogue use. 

In the world we live in, there is usually a relationship between price and quality! 

Follow the paper trail!

S1 Pre

552

252..........etc....

Allante93

The 272 is actually a very nice preamp which stands up well against a 552 - note, I'm saying 'stands up well against', not 'equals' or 'exceeds'.

In terms of it's streaming ability, it likewise stands up well against an NDS.   So far as it's DAC is concerned, I just play Radio4Extra through it, so not really a good basis for critical comment !

When paired with a good ampilifier (and for me 'good' in this context is 250DR, 300xx or 500xx),  the 272 is an amazing tool that I would happily recommend to anyone who is climbing the ladder toward an S1 or 500 based system... and for some, the 272 may well be where one rests for a long time on the upward struggle toward audio nirvana.

Allante makes the point about price / performance, and of course he's right... however, every now and then technology takes a leap and some hitherto unused tech finds its way into a new product giving it a leap up the performance ladder without the corresponding leap up the price list.  From what I hear of my 272, I have a suspicion this is one of those 'special' products, after all, it's so far advanced over its predecessor, the 172, you'd be forgiven for thinking they came from different manufacturers... but they don't.

So the 272 gets my vote for 'best product of 2016'.

Roger

And the 172 is an incredible player that really sounds quite at home on 300 amplification .. but listen to an NDS, NDAC or one of the  higher classic series pre's then its quite a different experience - but that does detract from the integrateds ..  bang for buck the 172 and 272 are great  performers - and certainly if i was starting off again I suspect I would have started with one of these.

Simon

The German AUDIO mag gave 115 points to the preamp section of the 272, and 138 points to its streamer/DAC. The latter is en par with the NDX (140), and the preamp is ahead of the 202 (120) and the 172 (95 only). 115/138 sounds like an imbalance, but AUDIO might use different scales for the two sections. Here on the forum there were quite a few enthusiastic reports about the 272's preamp, thus I'd locate it on 282 level, as the name and my own listening tests suggest.

S.

i am very happy with it coming from 202 and ND5XS.... i think it was improvement all over and now waiting for the 250.....

At the first demo I attended Naim said preamp wise at around 202 and DAC wise bare nDac/NDX.  And then if you add a XPS or 555?  But in reality it's what it is - an excellent streamer/pre which when partnered with the right power amp and speakers makes the sweatest music. 

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

At the first demo I attended Naim said preamp wise at around 202 and DAC wise bare nDac/NDX.  And then if you add a XPS or 555?  But in reality it's what it is - an excellent streamer/pre which when partnered with the right power amp and speakers makes the sweatest music. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Hot stuff then...

Seriously though, the diverging answers so far illustrate why my curiosity is piqued about this product. 202 & 282 are poles apart ime.

G

Indeed 282 is a paradigm shift and so it should be for the price.   I guess I've said it before there's no final definitive answer to this stuff.  

You could arrange a dem the only constant being a 250dr/Focal Sopra 1 and compare NDX/282/HC vs 272 and NDX/XPS2/282/Sc  vs 272/XPS.  But even then I suspect to some the differences would be considerable but to others less so. 

It's all good.  

The fact that two setups, one costing £15,000 and the other £7,000, are being compared in the same sentence says something about the strength of the latter. 

I think it is directly around the 282/NDX area and have heard a lot of commentary along the same lines. One has to take two things into consideration, the 282/NDX gives more flexibility, more inputs and more options to expand. That is both a blessing and a curse. Every interconnect added takes away not adds to a system, also interconnects get you into this black magic/snake oil/casting spells territory that it is a huge advantage in my opinion to keep to a minimum. So reduced box count systems have a big advantage in this regard. If you have tape and multiple LP sources the 282 is a no-brainer over the 272. If you are all streaming and LP like I am with all else equal would rather have the simplicity. My heavily biased opinion is the sweet spot in their whole lineup is 272/250DR/XPSDR I am working on getting myself there and have heard that system and it is incredible and my ears can't disern any shortfall that would make me want to go the much more complex and large 282/NDX/XPSDR/250DR/HiCAP. It is all what get's you to enjoy music if something else floats your boat that's super too..

Yes, separates have the advantage of flexibility and upgradability which can be an advantage for SQ and a curse for the finances. But separates also have the disadvantage of requiring more interconnects that ultimately degrade SQ. But the big advantage of separates is that they...well...err...separate delicate electronics from power circuits and as a consequence reduce interference and noise that will inevitably compromise SQ as you cram more components and elements of the hifi chain into a single box. This compromise can of course be minimised by being selective about what hi fi elements you put in a single box. For example I presume there will be less harm to SQ by combining say a streamer with a pre amp as they are both low voltage low current electronic devices. The trouble is that they still each generate and induce noise and if you choose not to use an external power supply you have the compromise of a large noisy internal transformer right next to some of the most delicate and corruptible electronics in an entire system. That is probably why the 272 sounds so much better with an XPS attached.

It really comes down to whether you can find clever ways of better isolating these internal components within a single box solution to minimise the damage to SQ by interferrence and thereby fully exploit the considerable SQ advantage of removing more interconnects from our systems. I have seen what a huge difference the addition of a top quality interconnect (SuperLumina) can have on SQ. Just swap say a standard Naim interconnect for a SL interconnect between a good streamer (NDX/NDS) and a good preamp (282/252/552) and it will give you some idea of how much these unassuming bits of wire can hold a system back.

It is all about priorities (e.g. finances vs box count vs SQ) and compromises (e.g. finances vs box count vs SQ).

I have separates but still want a NAC N-572 - that is a one box NDS/552 at two thirds of the cost of these separates with a funky new volume control and of course no compromise in SQ. I can wish can't I?

And, don't forget to add the cost of one Fraim shelf for each box...   not to mention HiLine or SL interconnect.