Unitiserve - this is really really unfair

antmast posted:

No that is not what I am saying. However the US is as good as  the DAC you use. Is it any different with the NDS or NDX? Also I am confused with what streaming means here. Are you saying that the NDS or NDX will connect to the NASes via a router and Ethernet cables and perform what the same function as the US does only better? Is that what you call streaming? 

The term "streaming" can mean a lot of different things.   Many use the term to denote providing music as digital data over a network to a player.  So Spotify or Qobuz can be called streaming, as can providing the data over a home network from a server to a player where both are connected, for example, as you describe when an NDX or NDS is connected to a music server (nas or UnitiServe) over the home network with ethernet cables via a switch. 

Any discussion of whether one format of music delivery per se sounds "better" than other (for example, streaming over a home network vs. directly connecting the UnitiServe via a digital cable to a dac) is unsatisfying, as the hardware itself obviously makes a difference.  But folks here have made such comparisons; others merely speculate.  Given that the Naim Dac cannot itself be added to a home network, any comparison of UnitiServe/Naim Dac (direct digital connection) vs. UnitiServe/Naim Player NDS/NDX/ND5XS (networked connection) necessarily means comparing different hardware.

But the ND-series players do accept direct digital connections.  One can connect the UnitiServe to an NDX by either a direct digital cable or a networked connection, and compare the results. 

antmast posted:

No that is not what I am saying. However the US is as good as  the DAC you use. Is it any different with the NDS or NDX? Also I am confused with what streaming means here. Are you saying that the NDS or NDX will connect to the NASes via a router and Ethernet cables and perform what the same function as the US does only better? Is that what you call streaming? 

Well - as I wrote earlier on. I actually tested all 3 components into an nDAC... I suggest you do the same, rather than fire off various statements based on your preconceptions.

antmast posted:

No that is not what I am saying. However the US is as good as  the DAC you use. Is it any different with the NDS or NDX? Also I am confused with what streaming means here. Are you saying that the NDS or NDX will connect to the NASes via a router and Ethernet cables and perform what the same function as the US does only better? Is that what you call streaming? 

How can the US be as good as the DAC? To my knowledge, the US doesn't have an analogue output, therefore it has to go through a DAC of some description, either standalone or a streamer? Surely that's what you need to compare?

Bart posted:

antmast posted:

No that is not what I am saying. However the US is as good as  the DAC you use. Is it any different with the NDS or NDX? Also I am confused with what streaming means here. Are you saying that the NDS or NDX will connect to the NASes via a router and Ethernet cables and perform what the same function as the US does only better? Is that what you call streaming? 

The term "streaming" can mean a lot of different things.   Many use the term to denote providing music as digital data over a network to a player.  So Spotify or Qobuz can be called streaming, as can providing the data over a home network from a server to a player where both are connected, for example, as you describe when an NDX or NDS is connected to a music server (nas or UnitiServe) over the home network with ethernet cables via a switch. 

Any discussion of whether one format of music delivery per se sounds "better" than other (for example, streaming over a home network vs. directly connecting the UnitiServe via a digital cable to a dac) is unsatisfying, as the hardware itself obviously makes a difference.  But folks here have made such comparisons; others merely speculate.  Given that the Naim Dac cannot itself be added to a home network, any comparison of UnitiServe/Naim Dac (direct digital connection) vs. UnitiServe/Naim Player NDS/NDX/ND5XS (networked connection) necessarily means comparing different hardware.

But the ND-series players do accept direct digital connections.  One can connect the UnitiServe to an NDX by either a direct digital cable or a networked connection, and compare the results. 

I also use streaming in the more pedestrian way, i.e. Spotify or Qobuz. So you either go UnitiServe/Dac for direct connection (which I am doing) or UnitiServe/Player. The quality of the DAC is crucial to getting the best sound from the UnitiServe for the direct connection. The ND-series players are completely different and I am not convinced of their relevance. Some are saying that the reason the n-serve app is less functional than the Naim app is because Naim is chosing to go with the ND-series player but again I am not sure of their relevance for customers who have already invested in a DAC and are looking for stereo playback only. Naim should do upkeep on the n-serve.

I think you might need to reconsider,  the US & HDX as good as they were in their day are the ones that are no longer relevant.  As CD ripper/players they did the job, but better more flexible ripping solutions are now available & downloading in the various HD formats is now the norm for new music. The Naim server units have not been developed, probably because of this, & my guess is they will get dropped from the product range at some time. Streamers in all their forms from NDS to Muso are so much more capable & user friendly with both local & network streaming,  they are also more format flexible considering all the PCM 24-bit variations & DSD,   & even with 16/44 CD rips they are sonically superior.     I don't understand your point about the irrelevance of ND players with external DAC,  why is everyone with a Naim source (or Linn, Cyrus, sony) using network streaming players & not server units & why so many of those with all manner of DAC's.       

Mike - I think OP is somewhat confused and angry that his UnitiServe does not have the same functionality as a fully ledged streamer. OP clearly forgot those are two different categories and seems to demand some sort of explanation to a perceived fault, which is not a fault at all, but merely a different functionality.

I see that Adam, but its time to move on from time to time,  my old TV did not have HDTV,  my old car would only run on leaded fuel,   some day in the future my much loved NAT-05 will not have airwaves to play,   sometime in the future a new audio format will arrive that my NDX or NAS will not be able to upgrade to.   ...........  such is life   

Indeed Mike.

For my part, kudos to Naim for developing their servers. They enable(d) customers to enter the world of home digital music in a robust way.  Fast forward 8 years . . . the nas market has developed, servers that run on nas's have developed, and Naim's promise, or hope, that not all rips are created equal just did not "stick." 

Nevertheless, there are still "high end" servers on offer from other companies.  The entire world has not given up and moved to the $200 nas server.  Even though I've owned a UnitiServe since 2012, my $200 nas works quite well as a server.

Hi Bart,

Have you done a long-term comparison of music playback from the US vs your NAS ?

Thanks,

Jan

Another question guys - if I use US SSD, do I play from my US or NAS?

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Another question guys - if I use US SSD, do I play from my US or NAS?

Adam

That will be from your US, definitely.

best

David

Thanks David - that's what I thought as well, but wasn't 100% sure. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Another question guys - if I use US SSD, do I play from my US or NAS?

Adam

The UServe uses the external nas as a Store; think of it just as an external hard drive, albeit networked, for the UServe.

Bart posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Another question guys - if I use US SSD, do I play from my US or NAS?

Adam

The UServe uses the external nas as a Store; think of it just as an external hard drive, albeit networked, for the UServe.

Exactly. A better reply than mine!

best

David

Thanks guys!

When  it comes to a server selection US has the same status as say a MinimServer on the front screen of Naim streamers.

So it's logical that by choosing US from the list I use it to handle the streaming duties.

Adam

Seriously, outside sound,  the idea that Naim could be better than the big boys of data storage, replication and tagging is naive to say the least. Naim, if it has not already happened, is going to get its fingers burned dabbling in software development. Anyone using a Naim storage solution today is making a very expensive mistake. It is comparable to Naim now in turntables and even CD transports. Bet they don't make much if any money in these areas any more. It is quite clear that with their plethora of products the software team are struggling to keep up.

The French firm, Devialet, has a limited product range, mainly, if not totally, aimed at the amplification market, the main one for Naim, and it is at the forefront of software development for that amplification market. It is still hard for them to get right but they are not attempting to support a ridiculously broad product range. Am happy to be proved wrong. 

It's good that Naim doesn't make turntables then... 

Mike-B posted:

I think you might need to reconsider,  the US & HDX as good as they were in their day are the ones that are no longer relevant.  As CD ripper/players they did the job, but better more flexible ripping solutions are now available & downloading in the various HD formats is now the norm for new music. The Naim server units have not been developed, probably because of this, & my guess is they will get dropped from the product range at some time. Streamers in all their forms from NDS to Muso are so much more capable & user friendly with both local & network streaming,  they are also more format flexible considering all the PCM 24-bit variations & DSD,   & even with 16/44 CD rips they are sonically superior.     I don't understand your point about the irrelevance of ND players with external DAC,  why is everyone with a Naim source (or Linn, Cyrus, sony) using network streaming players & not server units & why so many of those with all manner of DAC's.       

Ugh!  Can one of you guys please architect it out what you are saying.  A person has a field of NASes that go into a router, the router into the UnitiServe and that into the DAC and the DAC into the amplifier, etc. What added functionality are you getting from the players. I am only asking here not challenging anybody. My UnitiServe plays all the HD downloads from Qobuz or any other site. Are you saying I should buy the NDX and dispose of everything. More importantly, if I did, would it sound better? 

NDX connects to the router. 

You need to understand that the quality of the digital transport, going into a DAC is or paramount importance. UnitiServe is at the bootom of that pile unfortunately. 
You are 'streaming' just as you would with ND5XS, NDX - all going into a DAC.  As you progress up, the sound quality improves.

As simple as that really.

You have a good streaming playback system. Just accept there are better sounding soliutions from NAIM

Adam Zielinski posted:

It's good that Naim doesn't make turntables then... 

Exactly! Nor should they try and produce servers. 

The Naim DAC SQ is reportedly great but the control functionality is down a cul de sac. I'm sure it's a great cul de sac to be in, but most of us don't choose to live there. The mainstream is streamers and that is where Naim is investing its design effort, because that is where they can make money to keep the business working. If you want the control functionality the rest of us have with the Naim app, you will need to buy a streamer and you can sell on the Naim DAC or not, as you choose.

best

David

andarkian posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

It's good that Naim doesn't make turntables then... 

Exactly! Nor should they try and produce servers. 

That's rubbish. The Unitiserve is perfectly capable at what it sets out to do, albeit that it is expensive. But then all Naim kit is expensive.  If you have the money and no knowledge or interest in IT and don't want to mess about with computers, the US is a very good way into ripping and streaming.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

andarkian posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

It's good that Naim doesn't make turntables then... 

Exactly! Nor should they try and produce servers. 

That's rubbish. The Unitiserve is perfectly capable at what it sets out to do, albeit that it is expensive. But then all Naim kit is expensive.  If you have the money and no knowledge or interest in IT and don't want to mess about with computers, the US is a very good way into ripping and streaming.

best

David

That is the reason I got my US with NAS. I just want it to rip my CDs, serve music and catalogue it. I cannot be botherd to use my Mac for that. Music playback should be about music, not sitting in front of a monitor wondering what just went wrong.

I am happy with my set up of a US SSD + NAS and 4 Naim streamers. 

David Hendon posted:

andarkian posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

It's good that Naim doesn't make turntables then... 

Exactly! Nor should they try and produce servers. 

That's rubbish. The Unitiserve is perfectly capable at what it sets out to do, albeit that it is expensive. But then all Naim kit is expensive.  If you have the money and no knowledge or interest in IT and don't want to mess about with computers, the US is a very good way into ripping and streaming.

best

David

Ha! Ha! Sing after me, "I'm a believer!" Load your CDs on to your PC or Mac and stream them via your 272 to your 250, 300 or 500. Not very difficult, but homing into the areas that are best served by Naim, and very reassuringly expensive.