Hearing loss... "What?" I SAID...

Update:

I just added a power supply to the Nait XS 2 and it worked - the increase in micro-dynamics and resolution really do help without altering the basic character of the system.

Welcome to your cuddly toy PSU.   Mine does a good job, & better with my own IC.   

Hi Mike,

Yes, it gives a nice low growl(!) with the sub (but only when required by the signal).  It's only been running for about 6 hours but it's already noticeable that it's steadily improving in terms of the differentiation of instrumental timbres and readability of vocals as well as the previously mentioned increase in micro-dynamics and resolution.

From where did you get the cable you used for your interconnect?  At the moment I'm considering either building an interconnect or getting an AR Sound Skylink.

Hi Huge,  I buy most of my IC & bulk guitar/mic/amp cable from RedCo (USA)  ...........  incl P&P it's a better deal than the same cable from UK or EU & they don't mind a few feet if you don't mind the P&P.   My PSU IC is a bit special but we will break the forum rules to discuss it.  I can e-mail my paper on it if yr interested.

Thanks Mike, yes most interested, I've sent you my new e-mail address (the old one still works though).

Except that it bounced... do you have my e-mail address?  If not, I can post a temporary sacrificial e-mail address to exchange permanent addresses.

OK, I'd managed to delete a 'e' in the middle of it - hence the bounce!

feeling_zen posted:

This is one of my greatest fears since even into my 30s I can hear well above the standard threshold for even young children. My last auditory exam hit the 20KHz mark (as high as the doctor's test went) which was nearly unheard for my age (no pun intended). In the past I have tested well above this much to everyone's amazement.

Then 3 months ago really terrible tinnitus set in as a loud hiss almost identical to when you crank an amp up on a dead input. Very noticable all the time.  It does make everything sound like it has been compressed for radio. Contrary to thinking about what upgrades may overcome this, it has been severe enough for me to put all upgrades on hold. My hope is that it is stress related but my fear is that a couple incidents where my 1 year old daughter screemed bloody murder 2cm from my ears may have robbed me of something. I joked to my wife that when the girl is 20 I'll give her all my doctor's bills related to this.

It is really frustrating though. If it is noise induced hearing loss, then cranking the volume is just a vicious cycle that will slowing make the problem worse so I don't consider that an option. Or I can simply accept the possibility that if this tinnitus is permanent, my hi-fi journey may be at an end. On the other hand, if it is stress induced, I only have to pause my enjoyment for the next 18 years until they go off to Uni'.

This hobby has often struck me as a paradox.The most enjoyment may come from being young (healthy bat ears) with fee time and a large disposable income. Yet those two things almost never go together. Once we have the cash to buy something decent we have incidents behind us  like screaming infants, concerts jammed up against a loundspeaker twice my height, general wear and tear, being stuck in traffic jams with roadworks where the workmen have ear guards but bugger all the poor sods stuck in the cars who have to listen for 3 hours etc.

couldn't said it better...

Jan, Mike-B

The benefits of concentrating on system clarity are really very marked.  The improved preamp PSU brought considerable gains and with Mike-B's help I've installed a much improved interconnect cable - the combined results are terrific,.  Maybe not quite night and day, but at least a very bright LED torch!  Differentiation of orchestral timbres is much better, but even more noticeable is the dramatic improvement in the intelligibility of lyrics.

So, Jan and Mike, thank you both for your most helpful suggestions and guidance.

H

I developed tinnitus shortly after purchasing a dedicated headphone amp. I'm currently in a good period but at times it can really mess up enjoying music and life in general. Some things trigger it like the aforementioned cicada, the sound of the kitchen faucet aerator, wind (in car, on bicycle) or my idiot neighbor's dreaded bloody screaming leaf blower (the worst invention of the century). Some, like taking a shower or mowing the lawn with a gas mower can have a resetting effect.  On the other hand the high pitched whine of an electric mower is murder.

As others have mentioned I find coherence and clarity very important when listening to music. The more confused or muddied the sound gets the more chances it has of triggering my tinnitus.

I've always been reluctant in going down the Naim PSU rabbit hole but with what I've just read from Huge, Mike and Jan-Erik I might have finally found a valid excuse for whipping out the credit card.

BTW Huge - what PSU did you get?

FWIW - there are claims that flavonoids can help alleviate tinnitus but I'm a bit skeptical.

One more thing that really bugs my ears are some of the crappy pop recordings that are being churned out. You know the ones with low DR that all end in a crescendo of distorted guitars which all seem to be trying to sound like Coldplay trying to sound like The Edge. Almost as bad as dreaded leaf blower.

Iconoclast posted:

 

...

BTW Huge - what PSU did you get?
...

It's in my profile, the one that's like a cuddly toy inspired by, and named after, an early 20th C. American President!

Huge posted:

Iconoclast posted:

 

...

BTW Huge - what PSU did you get?
...

It's in my profile, the one that's like a cuddly toy inspired by, and named after, an early 20th C. American President!

Just got my first-ever hearing aids at 55.  I am a "optional candidate" with common HF roll-off.  Tests have been consistent for a few years, but my experience has been of decline, feeling increasingly cotton-headed, and unable to hear anybody at parties.

My fear was that "an appliance" would not help music enjoyment.  Let me put that to rest: as of day 0.5, the benefit is obvious.  Using Starkey Halo2, I am experiencing (IMHO) at least a 1.5-box upgrade, especially in Music mode, with my hearing profile.  

Family is overjoyed -- the stereo wars are over-- and the EQ in the Volvo can now return to a mutually-satisfactory setting.

There is hope.

Celebrating with Ray Bryant "Somewhere in France" CD rip on NDX.

Nick

I too have hearing problems, I was on mowing crews around college and after in maintenance. I actually complained and the grouch mgr let me go to the infirmary where they gave me wax.  It sure helped. But I got picked on almost every day and humiliated for being a woose.  I was in landscaping and some loud dance bars in 20s to 30s. 

But I developed tinnitus mainly from taking meds for my health, I need them but I can tell it is loudest after taking them and will trail off but not disappear.  Finally it's just part of life.  

4 years ago had serious operation for Skin cancer and they took out my right lymph and salivary gland,  I had a bit of chemo but also 6 weeks of radiation on my neck.  I'd had a hearing test years before but a year after another test because my right ear is muffled.  Audiologist said the radiation slowly killed  the nerve.

I go to the symphony and still love my stereo but I'm not all that sharp at it.  I avoid the loud special effects movies. My mom had hearing aides and wondering if that would help.

mudwolf posted:

I too have hearing problems, I was on mowing crews around college and after in maintenance. I actually complained and the grouch mgr let me go to the infirmary where they gave me wax.  It sure helped. But I got picked on almost every day and humiliated for being a woose.  I was in landscaping and some loud dance bars in 20s to 30s. 

But I developed tinnitus mainly from taking meds for my health, I need them but I can tell it is loudest after taking them and will trail off but not disappear.  Finally it's just part of life.  

4 years ago had serious operation for Skin cancer and they took out my right lymph and salivary gland,  I had a bit of chemo but also 6 weeks of radiation on my neck.  I'd had a hearing test years before but a year after another test because my right ear is muffled.  Audiologist said the radiation slowly killed  the nerve.

I go to the symphony and still love my stereo but I'm not all that sharp at it.  I avoid the loud special effects movies. My mom had hearing aides and wondering if that would help.

The way to look at this is that you hear like you hear, you have one life, and if you enjoy music then it is worth checking whether hearing aids can wind the clock back for you a bit or not. It's not about whether you can hear what someone else can hear, it's about whether you prefer the sound with assistance from hearing aids or not.  If not, then that's fine. If you do prefer it with, then that's useful to know. You might well be surprised by what you discover. There isn't much to lose.

best

David

Wow, just skimmed this thread and feel extremely lucky.  I've been deployed on extended combat tours three times and still hear well (still out to 20KHz) based on the military's audiology tests and confirmed by the couple of private tests I've had.  Kept me alive a couple of times. 

I can't hear the alarm clock on A Day in the Life from Sgt Pepper's so got the 24/96 version, stil can' hear it. Damn!

Cheers Bill.

There's another thread on this subject, worth a view: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...26#56475980526817126

Hi All

I am a Audiologist that specialises in digital hearing instruments among other things. Hearing instruments are getting better with reproduction but are limited, for instance the frequency range is optimised for upto 4KHz although will go up to around 8 KHz but with less gain. The receiver ( the speaker ) is very small and has a output usually lower than our natural hearing. This decreases the dynamic range ( the point where you can just hear to the maximum the instrument will allow before saturation ) hence reduces the listening pleasure.

Noise related hearing loss usually peaks around 4 KHZ ( Thats about 4 octaves higher than middle C on a piano) and then recovers slightly the higher the frequency usually around 8Khz. Presbycusis or age related deafness has a similar effect in that the higher frequencies start to deteriorate, there are hearing instruments that can use frequency compression, this is where the higher frequencies are compressed into lower frequencies. You would think this would cause some distortion but appears not to, and has the advantage of hearing sounds previously impossible to hear.

Some manufacturers do make hearing instruments that have better sound reproduction and some are just plain awful.

Not sure Ive gone off topic here apologies if I have.

Ricto

There is another active thread about this which was moved to the Padded Cell as it includes a link from a month or so back to a post by a Resound audiologist (if my memory serves me) where he explains why frequency compression is completely unsuitable for music listening.) It's worth a read.

best

David

Ricto posted:

Hi All

I am a Audiologist that specialises in digital hearing instruments among other things. Hearing instruments are getting better with reproduction but are limited, for instance the frequency range is optimised for upto 4KHz although will go up to around 8 KHz but with less gain. The receiver ( the speaker ) is very small and has a output usually lower than our natural hearing. This decreases the dynamic range ( the point where you can just hear to the maximum the instrument will allow before saturation ) hence reduces the listening pleasure.

Noise related hearing loss usually peaks around 4 KHZ ( Thats about 4 octaves higher than middle C on a piano) and then recovers slightly the higher the frequency usually around 8Khz. Presbycusis or age related deafness has a similar effect in that the higher frequencies start to deteriorate, there are hearing instruments that can use frequency compression, this is where the higher frequencies are compressed into lower frequencies. You would think this would cause some distortion but appears not to, and has the advantage of hearing sounds previously impossible to hear.

Some manufacturers do make hearing instruments that have better sound reproduction and some are just plain awful.

Not sure Ive gone off topic here apologies if I have.

Ricto

I think it is very on topic, especially given your expertise - thanks for posting...I am sure I will need "assistance" in the future - I hope prices begin to come down because they are pretty outrageous - can't help but feel like it is a bit of a scam. Obviously people want to and need to hear, but a hearing aid that costs $4-5K seems a but over the top. Especially when insurance typically doesn't cover them.

Dr Mark,

You have a NAP250DR that costs more than $5k and is, electronically speaking, a lot less sophisticated than the $4-5k digital hearing aids; and yet you don't seem to regard that price point as a bit of a scam.  I think you're underestimating the hearing aids, especially the miniaturisation.

Actually, NPR did a story a couple of years back about a guy who in light of the excessive cost of hearing aids set out to make them available at a fraction of the cost...which he did, providing quality product that was a bout a tenth of the price.

If you don't have a very challenging hearing loss then you can no doubt benefit from cheap hearing aids.  The most expensive ones offer very sophisticated digital processing which helps people to understand other peoples' voices in noisy environments like factories or restaurants,  advanced control functions like tone controls and programme selection and streaming. They also are very small, carefully adjusted to the individual and employ very low power consumption so as to reduce battery costs.  As always these are expensive because the research, development and tooling costs are spread over a relatively small number of users.

For people who see the reason to pay Naim's prices to buy their kit and do actually buy it, and also need hearing aids (ie people like myself), I simply cannot understand why they wouldn't be ready to pay a few thousand dollars or pounds to help them to hear better what it is doing.

best

David

Again, the point of the NPR story was that this guy was providing that level of product at a fraction of the cost.