Nait 5si and Dynaudio Contour S1.4

The Dynaudio Contour 1.4s are a £2500 speaker that are notoriously difficult to drive (very low minimum impedance and low sensitivity).  Dynaudio expect you to be using an amplifier in the £3000 - £6000 class to drive them.  Expecting any £1000 class amp to do it well is unrealistic.

However you haven't told us what your current amp is, so there no way we can even guess whether a 5si will be better or worse than it is.

Buy a s/h Supernait as a minimum.  Others on here with more knowledge than I may well tell you that the minimum is in fact a NAP 250, I just don't know.

try the excite range, I tried X32 with a Nap 100 and was pleasantly surprised how good the NAP 100 could handle the Dynaudio...

Huge posted:

The Dynaudio Contour 1.4s are a £2500 speaker that are notoriously difficult to drive (very low minimum impedance and low sensitivity).  Dynaudio expect you to be using an amplifier in the £3000 - £6000 class to drive them.  Expecting any £1000 class amp to do it well is unrealistic.

However you haven't told us what your current amp is, so there no way we can even guess whether a 5si will be better or worse than it is.

Buy a s/h Supernait as a minimum.  Others on here with more knowledge than I may well tell you that the minimum is in fact a NAP 250, I just don't know.

I do not think that Dynaudio expect amplifiers of a certain price range to drive any of their loudspeakers. The Contour 1.4s may perform better with a more powerful amplifier than the Nait5si  but this is true for any loudspeakers whatever the price of the amplifier.

cat345 posted:

Huge posted:

The Dynaudio Contour 1.4s are a £2500 speaker that are notoriously difficult to drive (very low minimum impedance and low sensitivity).  Dynaudio expect you to be using an amplifier in the £3000 - £6000 class to drive them.  Expecting any £1000 class amp to do it well is unrealistic.

However you haven't told us what your current amp is, so there no way we can even guess whether a 5si will be better or worse than it is.

Buy a s/h Supernait as a minimum.  Others on here with more knowledge than I may well tell you that the minimum is in fact a NAP 250, I just don't know.

 

I do not think that Dynaudio expect amplifiers of a certain price range to drive any of their loudspeakers. The Contour 1.4s may perform better with a more powerful amplifier than the Nait5si  but this is true for any loudspeakers whatever the price of the amplifier.

OK, maybe they don't expect a specific given price.  But when they designed that speaker they expected it to be used with an amp that can deliver a transient current of at least 12A in less than 200μs under all conditions, even when delivered into a highly reactive load with a minimum impedance of 2.5Ω - and you won't get that below about £3K.

It's the same thing, just phrased in technical terms rather than fiscal terms, and most people understand the money better than the technical description.

Huge posted:

cat345 posted:

Huge posted:

The Dynaudio Contour 1.4s are a £2500 speaker that are notoriously difficult to drive (very low minimum impedance and low sensitivity).  Dynaudio expect you to be using an amplifier in the £3000 - £6000 class to drive them.  Expecting any £1000 class amp to do it well is unrealistic.

However you haven't told us what your current amp is, so there no way we can even guess whether a 5si will be better or worse than it is.

Buy a s/h Supernait as a minimum.  Others on here with more knowledge than I may well tell you that the minimum is in fact a NAP 250, I just don't know.

 

I do not think that Dynaudio expect amplifiers of a certain price range to drive any of their loudspeakers. The Contour 1.4s may perform better with a more powerful amplifier than the Nait5si  but this is true for any loudspeakers whatever the price of the amplifier.

OK, maybe they don't expect a specific given price.  But when they designed that speaker they expected it to be used with an amp that can deliver a transient current of at least 12A in less than 200μs under all conditions, even when delivered into a highly reactive load with a minimum impedance of 2.5Ω - and you won't get that below about £3K.

It's the same thing, just phrased in technical terms rather than fiscal terms, and most people understand the money better than the technical description.

Huge, I understand your technical explanation particularly if you want to exploit the full possibilities of these loudspeakers but even though the amplifier is not totally up there, it will nonetheless expose the sound qualities of the loudspeakers. Of course, this is if the listening level is adequate and does not drive the amplifier into clipping.

Cat, it's not about clipping.  In some circumstances you'll need transient currents of 12A or maybe even more at about 10W average power.  It's about the speed of current delivery when the voltage and current demand aren't in phase.  These speakers are a very difficult load for all but the most capable amp.

The OP was specifically concerned about not getting enough control, and that's exactly what will happen driving difficult speakers using amps that don't have enough transient current capability.  This is why the latest (09) Naim power transistors are rated for 90A transient current delivery.

You just don't try to drive that sort of speaker with a budget amp. I'd expect to use something like a 250, with suitable preamp and, of course, source. Getting expensive, challenging speakers means that you have to spend serious money to feed them. That's why it's best to build the system from the source, ending up with speakers appropriate to both it and the amplifier. 

Huge posted:

Cat, it's not about clipping.  In some circumstances you'll need transient currents of 12A or maybe even more at about 10W average power.  It's about the speed of current delivery when the voltage and current demand aren't in phase.  These speakers are a very difficult load for all but the most capable amp.

The OP was specifically concerned about not getting enough control, and that's exactly what will happen driving difficult speakers using amps that don't have enough transient current capability.  This is why the latest (09) Naim power transistors are rated for 90A transient current delivery.

Again, a very good technical explanation. Correct me if I'm wrong but a high transient current would only provide the greatest benefit to bass frequencies without much influence on the rest of the spectrum?

why not ask Steve Hopkins @ Naim audio about this?

Hi Cat,

Transient current capability and speed influences the whole of the audio spectrum, but to different degrees dependant on the design of the speaker (and possibly on the perception of the listener).  Upper and mid bass do seem to be an area where it's often more noticeable, but it can affect any part of the audio spectrum.

Hi Huge, nice technical explanation, but where did you get the figures about the Dynaudio Contour current requirement from? Are you by any chance a speaker designer or a Dynaudio employee?

What about the 009 transistors 90 AMP transient capability.

What is the 250 DR transient capability then?

Hi AM,  in the past I've designed poweramps!  It's a mix of "rule of thumb" and calculation.

The info on the 009 was published somewhere but I can't remember where, I think it was an article to do with the Statement.

I don't know the specific time / current / voltage profile of the 250, sorry.

I can't even remember in detail what the 3D map was for the last amp I designed, just that it was >15A/μs and the output structure could achieve >90V/μs (but overall slew rate was reduced by forward HF filtration for phase margin stability and out of band signal protection).

I say don't be put off too much by the nay sayers.

I did have contour 1.4S, and they do indeed produce a lot of bass.

I don't think they're as difficult to drive as made out though.

When I had mine I used a Bel canto S300i and latterly an Avi Labs V2 Power amp ( 150 and 220W respectively)

This was deliberate as I was aware that they like power, but I just don't subscribe to the "you can't use x with y" thinking a lot of people have.

Whilst my 250 is in for DR upgrade I am using a 10 year old all in one Rotel RCD100 which is 45WPC o drive Neat Mommentum SX3i - isobaric speakers that are themselves not very sensitive, and the sound is surprisingly good

Hello all,

Thank you for your responses. I do believe that the 1.4s deserve expensive, high class amplification however I just can not justify that right away. I'm watching the s/h market, hoping something interesting to come up. I chose the Contours for their sound, because I am not satisfied with the sound of the lower series. Then I realized I was in a difficult situation.

The SN was also recommended by a Naim dealer. Saving for this one would take a lot of time though.

Hi all,

Just want to drop by and update the situation, as someone may also consider a setup similar to mine. After some demo at home I pulled the trigger and kept the Naim 5si. I would need more time to draw a conclusion of this setup, but until now it works to some extent. In particular the combo works fine until the volume level reaches 10 hrs position, after that things get a bit (very, very mildly) shouty but still fine for me.