A speaker question, if I may.

nigelb posted:

But there haven't been any developments since Naim's first and only set of streamers - ND5 XS, NDX and NDS - other than firmware updates which are to be expected. Maybe the new one box streamer preamps WILL contain a developed streamer section with admittedly a traditional preamp section. I hasten to add, this is pure speculation on my part - no insider information.

As far as the logic of putting a streamer and preamp in one box is concerned, there is one BIG benefit in that you do away with an interconnect that can only compromise and detract from ultimate performance. There also the economies from a one box solution but of course you do lose the sonic benefits from separating these delicate electronic devices and the reduction of noise which I guess is one of the key benefits of separtes.

Naim must be encouraged by the performance and commercial success of NAC- N 272 and am sure believe there is mileage in this concept higher up the food chain. Again pure speculation on my part.

Sorry, I meant the streaming/DAC element, and not just Naim.

G

GraemeH posted:

nigelb posted:

But there haven't been any developments since Naim's first and only set of streamers - ND5 XS, NDX and NDS - other than firmware updates which are to be expected. Maybe the new one box streamer preamps WILL contain a developed streamer section with admittedly a traditional preamp section. I hasten to add, this is pure speculation on my part - no insider information.

As far as the logic of putting a streamer and preamp in one box is concerned, there is one BIG benefit in that you do away with an interconnect that can only compromise and detract from ultimate performance. There also the economies from a one box solution but of course you do lose the sonic benefits from separating these delicate electronic devices and the reduction of noise which I guess is one of the key benefits of separtes.

Naim must be encouraged by the performance and commercial success of NAC- N 272 and am sure believe there is mileage in this concept higher up the food chain. Again pure speculation on my part.

Sorry, I meant the streaming/DAC element, and not just Naim.

G

OK got you.

If there is an upmarket one box streamer preamp on the way then it would be an ideal opportunity to showcase any streamer hardware/electronic (as distinct from firmware) advances/developments Naim might have made in the recent past.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

If it's genuine inside information it really shouldn't be aired on here. Every time I've been told something I've kept it strictly to myself, and I'm sure many others do exactly the same. 

Correct HH - I've edited my reply.

Sorry Adam, I shouldn't have encouraged you to say anything out of turn.

How about listening to ATC SCM 40's? All the slam and Prat, you will ever need. I can almost hear some members saying, "there he goes again, ranting on about ATC. "Fact is, Naim's speaker making days are over, for now anyway. Your proposed systems would be absolutely bloody awesome, driving ATC! Reviewers have compared them with speakers at several times the price.

I have also made the journey from Linn, to Naim (I kept the Sondek). I Bought ATC as my retirement/legacy speakers, and have not looked back.

Dealers with both Naim, and ATC, are not easy to find, but well worth it. Anyone out there to second this suggestion? are you there Paul?

Good luck in finding your ultimate combination.

Another vote for ATC but to get the best out of them and your system get active versions, either SCM40A or SCM19A depending on your room and size. No need for NAP300 so significant saving, less boxes, and sound quality improvement. I partner mine with Hugo TT DAC\preamp and want for nothing.

Hi Drumgooland, what types of music do you listen to most? when you describe slam and presence in the bass are we talking Dub, Yello, SRV, Mahler...?

+1 for Focal Sopras, as long as you are OK with their looks.

Yes I am an ATC and Naim fan.. I loooove my SCM19s driven by my 250.2.... yet to hear a better combo in my home.. and I have heard a few including from PMC, Kudos and Harbeth

Thanks for the suggestions so far - and the topic creep is informative too :-)

It seems only moments ago that DBLs went out of production and now it appears that the then newly launched Ovators are about to follow the same fate.  Tempus fugit etc. The DR upgrade was only just coming out as I was leaving the fold and I am glad that it enhances the range.  It also means, I assume, that the non DR boxes are less expensive.  My intention is to source second hand/ex dem boxes to keep the cost down, and as for funds for speakers, I am certainly looking in the sub £10k arena.  

For the time being i ask the forum to bear with me as I seek your opinions on speaker options; when i am ready I will be off to annoy a dealer.

Interesting thread.  Since hearing SMC19A's & being very impressed I've been thinking about a change to them.  But do I go 252 & keep NDX or go 272 or maybe another.   My sensible head says 272 but I know 252 will give both better grin factor & an open door for other options.    Whatever it won't be until later this year,  too many other balls in the air at mo,  but I'm taking notes.   

Mike, as you are in no hurry, why not wait and see if the upmarket 272 (let's call it a 472) gets launched, if so what it costs and what level of SQ it is capable of. It could turn out to be a higher level no-brainer or it could turn out to be a huge red herring of course.

If the '472' does materialise, you could trade your NDX and Supernait in against one, but you would then need a power amp. I wonder if the wonderful 250DR would be up to the job and leave room for future power amp upgrades? I do like a Monkfish. Oh yes, the 472 might also require one, or possibly two, big ol' power supplies. Umm....starting to sound expensive.

Interesting times.

There have been many comparisons, but I would say N272 is not an NDX+282. It's a different, more convenient 'product'. NAIM markets it as a proposition for someone moving from a SuperUniti, not as an alternative to separates.

+1 ATC speakers. But why not Active 50s? 

+1 for PMC. If you like deep, full, but well controlled bass, balanced by great mid/top, I think it's hard to do much better than their MB2. But the're quite big on their stands, and in their latest consumer incarnation the SE they are not cheap - but then such good speakers won't be.

next best I've heard is the EB1i, mhich have a similar performance but with a bit less power, and the mid doesn't quite measure up to the MB2 standard. Now discontinued, they occasionally come up secondhand, though rarely because people tend to hang onto them more than some of the other PMCs like the Twenty series, or PB, GB etc, only changing to upgrade to the likes of the MB2. 

if the speaker must have a small footprint then the Fact 12 gives surprisingly good bass, though the overall soundstage I found quite constrained compared to the above.

nigelb posted:

................   If the '472' does materialise, you could trade your NDX and Supernait in against one, but you would then need a power amp. .................    

Hi Nigel,  the SMC19A's are active - they have there own integrated power amps,  so the Naim part will be NDX/Pre or 272 (472) only. .............  

I'm just now reading through this thread and the variety of responses is interesting, especially for speaker recommendations given that the OP is coming from an active system and provides no information regarding room dimensions or possible speaker positioning constraints.

Mike-B posted:

Interesting thread.  Since hearing SMC19A's & being very impressed I've been thinking about a change to them.  But do I go 252 & keep NDX or go 272 or maybe another.   My sensible head says 272 but I know 252 will give both better grin factor & an open door for other options.    Whatever it won't be until later this year,  too many other balls in the air at mo,  but I'm taking notes.   

Mike, being a long time ATC user, what I would say is that they benefit from the best electronics you can provide.. You really can appreciate the benefit..unlike some speakers.. So I'd be inclined to audition get the best pre you can. 

Thete is a good write up in one of the comics of a 272 driving a pair of 40actives however. I find the Naim 250.2 works wonderfully with 19s on open framed stands with 3.5 metres of NACA5 at domestic listening levels including the odd party providing an attractive, dynamic and authoritative Naim performance. The two way crossover seems to reduce the passive compromise to some extent. However if I was looking at the 40s then I think the difference between active and passive would be more significant.

Aric posted:

+1 ATC speakers. But why not Active 50s? 

absolutely, if u have the right room and budget

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Mike-B posted:

Interesting thread.  Since hearing SMC19A's & being very impressed I've been thinking about a change to them.  But do I go 252 & keep NDX or go 272 or maybe another.   My sensible head says 272 but I know 252 will give both better grin factor & an open door for other options.    Whatever it won't be until later this year,  too many other balls in the air at mo,  but I'm taking notes.   

Mike, being a long time ATC user, what I would say is that they benefit from the best electronics you can provide.. You really can appreciate the benefit..unlike some speakers.. So I'd be inclined to audition get the best pre you can. 

Thete is a good write up in one of the comics of a 272 driving a pair of 40actives however. I find the Naim 250.2 works wonderfully with 19s on open framed stands with 3.5 metres of NACA5 at domestic listening levels including the odd party providing an attractive, dynamic and authoritative Naim performance. The two way crossover seems to reduce the passive compromise to some extent. However if I was looking at the 40s then I think the difference between active and passive would be more significant.

 

simon it would be interesting to hear your views if you were ever able to audition the scm19a. i compared the passive 40 to active version. both were superb. my feeling was the actives had a little more clarity, almost like adding a pinch of a high end pure class a amp, with slightly improved bass grip, and a subtle uplift in tonal accuracy.

yes i haven't heard the 19a, but I think I do prefer the 19s over the 40s - certainly passively - the large domed pro mid/bass driver on the 19 really is rather special and very performant over that crucial mid range.

Mike-B posted:

nigelb posted:

................   If the '472' does materialise, you could trade your NDX and Supernait in against one, but you would then need a power amp. .................    

Hi Nigel,  the SMC19A's are active - they have there own integrated power amps,  so the Naim part will be NDX/Pre or 272 (472) only. .............  

Ah, yes Mike, I missed the 'A' in the model number. Even better then, you don't need a power amp.

I do agree with the comments about the importance of the preamp in passive systems and I imagine the same would be true of active systems, possibly more so. The preamp has always been at the centre of my system and has been the prominent component in all my previous upgrade plans. I believe the pre is fundamental to any system's music-making capabilities and have heard some of the biggest and best improvements when upgrading the pre. Also key of course is the source and you have a fine one in the NDX.

So if it were me (and assuming the SMC19A's are as capable as many say they are) I would be investing next in the best pre you can afford, say the 252 to go with the SMC's if you decide to try them out. Trouble is you will then be wanting a NDS to make the most of the 252 but that can wait.

The only slight concern I have with all of this is the fact that the new DR power amps are soooo good and you would be missing out on them by going for active speakers.

But, as someone said, times they are a-changing!

Good luck and would be fascinated to hear what happens next to your system.

The neat Isobaric range has fantastic tight, deep and tuneful bass in my experience.

I only have the stand mount Momentum SX3i - but they are might impressive even compared to past floor standers.

I should imagine a floor standing Ultimatum or Momentum would be excellent.

Emoprium Hifi on eBay have a pair of second hand flagship Ultimatum floor-standers for sale - might be worth a look.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEAT...1:g:Je4AAOSwPc9W2AXg

They offer trade in's and can also collect and deliver - I've used them before and was happy with the service I got.

Hi again Nigel,  you have all the points that I'm thinking.   

I'm less interested in 250DR over the active SMC19A,  the attraction is box reduction & reading reviews of other ATC active speakers & heard the 19A myself I have no doubts the ATC power amp is at least of a similar ability to 250 especially so when all the phase & other negatives around passive x/overs are eliminated.    No more speaker cables - OK it still needs an IC & 240v speaker cable but that is not a problem in my room setup or for me on the engineering side.

The x2 downsides - WAF was negative, they are ugly with & without the grills,  grills (perforated metal sheet) look industrial,  the cabinets don't look nice like "ours" & they are the wrong wood.   As for me - I am not convinced about a few aspects of the sound;  my own speakers dive deep & I get sub-35Hz in the room,  while the SMC19A's have a full bass (it is really very good)  I had the impression it was falling off a bit before the lowest bass guitar notes.   OK it was not an in-depth listen (it was not even planned)  & the dealers room was a lot larger & higher than mine, so room acoustics are very different.  .............  any way,  this is just a thought process at mo,  it will not happen for sure, & even if it does its more likely to be 2017'ish.    

Mike-B posted:

The x2 downsides - WAF was negative, they are ugly with & without the grills,  grills (perforated metal sheet) look industrial,  the cabinets don't look nice like "ours" & they are the wrong wood.   

Mike - that sounds very familiar. Your wife and mine must be related 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike-B posted:

The x2 downsides - WAF was negative, they are ugly with & without the grills,  grills (perforated metal sheet) look industrial,  the cabinets don't look nice like "ours" & they are the wrong wood.   

Mike - that sounds very familiar. Your wife and mine must be related 

Ah yes, the dreaded WAF, the downfall of many a great potential system. But we have to 'live' with our systems as well as listen to them I guess.