Nait XS2, the wrong way around?

Speaker selection is a very personal matter and no one can really tell you what will work best in your listening room.All we can do is point you in the right direction.Some info on listening room size type of floor....is it a highly reflective room or acoustically well damped.All these factors come into play when selecting speakers and a home demo is the best possible solution,personally I like the pmc twenty range at the moment but the choice is huge.So I suggest going to see your dealer it sounds as though you must have struck up some kind of rapour by now and if he knows your going to also buy a cd5xs...I reckon he'll arrange a home demo of suitable speakers for your room.hope I've helped some.As for power supplies....I'd just leave that for the time being and get used to the sound of the amp,cd player and which ever speakers you choose before spending any more cash.You need to know what a psu will bring to the system,which means you really need to know the sound of your system inside out.which will take time and lots of listening.

Gigantor posted:

... At the time I was under the illusion vinyl was better than CD.  A recent email has dissolved this myth.  Vinyl may sound nice and there is nothing wrong with that.  But CD is better.  Anyhow, .......

P.S.  With reference to the vinyl/CD comparison I can supply the email to the written article if you PM me.  I do not think I can post links here.

That is (possibly) one dangerous e-mail.

Those curious -  should consider the risks.

(In passing - WHAT has happened to YouTube?)

I use my ears in my listening room to make decisions about my audio format predilections. An email? That's a novel approach and one I hadn't considered.

You are good, no worries. Thumb rule says you should configure your system starting with the source. However, as you already have XS2, you may consider players from Naim like a s/h CDX2.2, CD5X or a brand spanking new CD5XS, if you are determined to have CD playback. Those two players are upgradable with outboard PSUs and can be solely used as CD transport with a DAC of yours. I have CD5si with XS2 and am happy with the result.

As for the speaker choice your budget, room, ears and taste will dictate the direction to be followed. You'd better consider reasonably sensitive and rather benign speakers in terms of amp load. You may check twenty series from PMC and Motive SX series from NEAT. They seem they are available in Australia.

I'm not entirely sure how receiving an email can convince you that CDs are better than records. I would have thought that listening for yourself was an idea, but hey.

The Nait XS is jolly nice, and the idea of getting a CD5xs is a good one. I imagine that you don't wish to embrace the world of streaming - you could for example get an ND5xs instead, rip your music to a Nas and keep your old Marantz for occasional listening. You'd also get internet radio and the option of Tidal.

Once the source is sorted out, you can turn to speakers. Something like the PMC twenty.21 or 23 is well worth trying - they are very good.

I would advise that you forget about listening out for how well the systems reproduce storms and broken windows. You want something that moves your soul on all sorts of music, and which you can listen to for hours on end. Apart from Dire Straits, there must be other stuff you like. You need to use average recordings, not Hifi demo discs. Does a sad song make you feel sad, or make you cry? Does music make you tap your feet, nod your head and play the drums on your knees? These are the things I look out for when choosing a system. I don't think 'ooh, that sounds like a real window breaking'. That's not real, unless Bach wrote a Sonata for piano and window that I'm unaware of. The music is all that matters, not the Hifi stuff like bass, treble, imaging, inky blackness and the like. I hope that makes sense. 

Adam Meredith posted: 

(In passing - WHAT has happened to YouTube?)

YouTube is still out there, but I've been unable to embed their videos here lately.

No email addresses on here please. Thanks. 

Gigantor posted:

Had I made a mistake [with the Nait XS2]? 

Definitly not, Paul.

Add CD5XS, Naca5 speaker wires, your Celestions and decent supports for your amp and CD player, and then chill. If you want other speakers, they can come later.

Cheers,

Chris

If I am allowed to quote the email either via a link or in full please let me know.  In general it talks about dynamic range of a vinyl record compared to a CD and the reduced dynamic range as the grooves approach the centre of the LP.  Evidently LPs of old when it came to track layout design the quieter tracks where laid towards the centre to account for this.  So the status quo would prevail.  Nothing perceived by the listener.  The article continues to say that there is nothing wrong with liking the music of an LP.  Just that a better representation would be on a CD.  It also talked about Hi Res files and that there is no evidence that that human ears can hear anything above 22kHz.  Therefore the 44kHz sampling method.  High sample rates contain more information though doubt anyone would hear it.  Only used for masters.  I am getting out of my comfort zone here.  It is quite a lengthy article.

I am not an audiophile.  This is the gist of the article.  The article is titled "Why CDs may actually sound better than vinyl" by By Chris Kornelis, posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 8:38 a.m.  I think that should be enough information to find the article.  I just found it interesting and it made me think.  All about groove thicknesses and other points of interest.  I still have vinyl and will be listening to that when I eventually purchase a turntable for my Naim XS 2.

All in the interest of better music.  Maybe Naim Cd players are the way to go after all.  I am sorry I still do not understand stand alone DACs.  I can understand them in a CD player.  Though I am still confused as to them being a piece of HIFI gear.  I have Googled and read Wiki.  Still lost.  Data communication is not one of my favourite fields of interest.

Warm regards,

Paul In Oz.

Gigantor posted:

This is the gist of the article.  The article is titled "Why CDs may actually sound better than vinyl" by By Chris Kornelis, posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 8:38 a.m. 

I think that should be enough information to find the article. 

That - and the link to his web page.

If you take 0.0003 attoseconds on Google you should be able to find 10¹⁰⁰ articles saying CD is better than vinyl.

If you take 0.0003 attoseconds on Google you should be able to find 10¹⁰⁰ articles saying vinyl is better than CD.

If you focus on CD make sure to avoid compilations - they all sound worse than the original CD issues.   And avoid remasters of pop/rock music as they tend to be compressed, sounding louder and more analytical.  A CD5XS makes sense - it is voiced with your nait and if you find a better DAC later you can still use it as a transport.  But a careful audition is still in order before purchase.  And keep your vinyl - it would be difficult to replace if you had a change of heart.

hastings posted:

If you focus on CD make sure to avoid compilations - they all sound worse than the original CD issues.   And avoid remasters of pop/rock music as they tend to be compressed, sounding louder and more analytical.  A CD5XS makes sense - it is voiced with your nait and if you find a better DAC later you can still use it as a transport.  But a careful audition is still in order before purchase.  And keep your vinyl - it would be difficult to replace if you had a change of heart.

I don't think this is necessarily so in my experience - I have some compilations and remasters that do sound better than the original masters - especially when originally mastered for CD - and also some that are worse... I agree pre-determining - especially on compilations is nigh on impossible and so its a case of trail and error. The number of mastering variations for a particular track can be quite surprising...

Some remasters when you analyse them using analysis tools have very little difference if any in overall compression, but there can be a change in emphasis on some frequencies and frequency compression.

The other thing that you notice with remasters - especially when original mastering was done in the 90s is that digital mastering technology has moved on significantly - so you can get an overall improvement in SQ in later remasters. One of my music buddies who has been in the music recording and mastering business demonstrated this to me.. and he was right..

Simon

I'm going through the process of selectively replacing my vinyl & some CD's with downloads;  and it's not that easy.  I'm not getting into what sounds best,  to me it's a no contest decision to go to streaming,  it's time to move on.  But to follow on with the last few posts  

I agree its not a bad idea to avoid compilations, but I don't discount them out of hand & if maybe if some vinyl can be replaced with one download,   I am happy to at least have a listen and/or check out expert reviews first.   Going back to the first post & Dire Straits,   one of my best SQ DS albums is a HDCD compilation & on most tracks the SQ is a step up from the redbook CD.    My first choice is remastered & 24-bit but only after some study of reviews & some DR techie stuff to be sure they are genuine remasters & better SQ,  & be warned as "remastered" doesn't mean better.    Top tip for Bob Marley fans, I've replaced all mine with Tuff Gong/Island Diament mastered discs & prefer the sound to the originals & deluxe editions.    

My other added problem is a lot of 1960/70/80 vinyl is not available as a download & the only option is CD.   But again its worth checking out which CD issue or remaster is best.  My significant other has requested a download of Vangelis "Chariots of Fire" & although no download,  it is available as a remastered CD & its a pretty good improvement in SQ over the original (not too difficult I hear you say) .     Bottom line is whatever you do don't overlook anything.

Thank you for all your worthy replies.  The article on that "CDs may sound better than vinyl" was just that an article.  It was possibly the first article I have read on the subject that I could actually understand and I thought it might tweak the interest of others.  Enough said.  No I am not going out to replace all my vinyl and I did enjoy listening to my LPs when I have had the chance at HIFI shops when auditioning HIFI components.  The article was pretty convincing though as has been mentioned if I Googled one on vinyl may sound better than CDs it would have its own authority stamp.  By the way I did not google it the article it was sent to me by an audio shop that I purchase from.  It popped in my email so I had a read.

Yes I must say that I am disappointed with my recent CD compilation purchases.  The only way I can preview them is to listen to the album if it is available on iTunes through my 11 year old iMac.  Less than ideal.  One feature that I have come to enjoy on the Marantz CD-85 is that it can remember your favourite track selection on up to 300 CDs.  It just skips past the poor recordings or the ones you do not like.  But after all it is a 25 year old CD player.

Streaming, I am also tempted to purchase a ND5 XS Network Player.  A couple of things that prevent me.

1. Our internet connection is not fast enough to stream an online radio station with our three adult children and myself.  The children are heavy on-line gamers' and netflex viewers.  It is the best internet connection available in Australia.  Though we live out in the sticks and it is the best we can do.  400kbs.

2. I do not know where to purchase Hires files from.  I have looked at a couple of sites though they do not have any of the artists I like.

3. If I was able to purchase Hires files from artists that I like I still do not have the knowledge in what to do with them.  Digital Communication was not a high point with me at Tech some 25 years ago.  I passed the course though just barely with a mark of 63/100.  Analogue information transition I can understand.  Superhet receivers and transmitters no problem.  Digital and I have ten thumbs.  Radars, squitter pulses no problem.  Hex, Dec, Oct and binary no issue.  FM this is OK too.  Digital.... I have tried to understand the process of oversampling on CDs though my eyes do cloud over.  What I have gathered is that the more oversampling the less stringent the analogue filters have to be down stream.

If somebody could explain the advantages of a ND5 XS I am all ears, so to speak.  I may in the end have a good system that can play CDs, HDCDs and vinyl and be very happy with that.  ND5 XS, I am open to learning something new.

Patience required,

Warm regards,

Paul.

Terribly sorry to hear about your Amber 50b giving up the ghost for the third time. They can be testy and do not tolerate an unsteady hand between drinks. If I may, I would not counsel reading emails, as they can be sources of much confusion. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

That's not real, unless Bach wrote a Sonata for piano and window that I'm unaware of.

 

One Bach came close....P.D.Q. Bach

Adam Meredith posted:

Gigantor posted:

... At the time I was under the illusion vinyl was better than CD.  A recent email has dissolved this myth.  Vinyl may sound nice and there is nothing wrong with that.  But CD is better.  Anyhow, .......

P.S.  With reference to the vinyl/CD comparison I can supply the email to the written article if you PM me.  I do not think I can post links here.

That is (possibly) one dangerous e-mail.

Those curious -  should consider the risks.

 

(In passing - WHAT has happened to YouTube?)

 

That's not youtube. It's a pirate site.

Paul,

I don't "stream"/download but have read enough observations here to note that hi-res is not necessarily a panacea. You've noted that every format has shortcomings. Some issues with hi-res are that the catalog is limited (as you're finding), some hi-res files are simply up-scaled from lower resolution (as you alluded to), downloads can be expensive, and (as with any format) the mastering quality is variable. On the other hand, comments here also indicate that when the original recordings are hi-res and there is dedicated mastering to that format the results are fantastic. I throw this out as food for thought for your upgrade path. Perhaps someone with first-hand knowledge can provide you some perspective on where to proceed with hi-res, but I would also include your life-style, value on convenience, and listening habits as considerations.

Gigantor posted:

I started out listening out for the broken window on Dire Straits "private Investigations" track off the Love Over Gold album.  It was there with all its clarity. 

I can fully endorse this approach. While many claim the superiority of live acoustical instruments as a reference point, these are red herrings, as one never knows which brand or type of string, bow or even reed is in use at the time of listening. Breaking glass, on the other hand, is an immensely satisfying sound that we can all reproduce easily, given a suitable rock and good aim.

Gigantor posted:

Some tracks can have beautiful female vocals though on others, same artist "Chrissy Amphlett" there is too much bass and drums and sounds a real mess and drowns out her lovely rich voice. 

She'll only sound right when played on di vinyl.

winkyincanada posted:

Adam Meredith posted:

(In passing - WHAT has happened to YouTube?)

 

That's not youtube. It's a pirate site.

 GOOD point.

My apologies.

Paul, I have a Nait XS2 and I can only talk about my personal experience regarding speakers. I am enjoying my XS2 with Neat Motive S1 and I also tried it with Totem Hawks and Def Tech Mythos STS. I have to say that the XS2 performed very well with all of these speakers. As for my personal taste, I settled on the Neats, but again it is very subjective and you have to listen and make your choice. Sorry I don't know if these brands are available in your country but I just thought I share my $.02

Cheers

Moussa 

Well it has been almost six weeks since I posted this post.  I must say I am sitting back and enjoying music once more.  The CD player can do with replacement.  I must say I am very happy with my Nait XS2 and the Celestion speakers.  Maybe a CD5 XS for next year.  Thank you to everybody who posted.

By the way.  I have also put up a post in the Music Room about Decca recordings of Handel's Messiah.  I found so many different ones I do not know which to purchase.  If you would like to leave any comments please pop over to the Music Room Forum and give me your sage like advice on which one(s) to purchase.

Warm regards,

Paul.