NAIM Commitment to CD

I'm the same. I use a CDX2 as my source and I have no intention of moving my music to a computer. My experience with computers has always been that they are hugely unreliable. I hope Naim continue with their CD players. Mine isn't going anywhere! 

CD players are on a par with turntables, as the only completely reliable way of listening to music.

I am not agreeing with your statement that streaming would unreliable. I haven't had issues. If you stay with cd play out of the physical aspect, that's a different story, but the comfort of streaming can't be beaten.

With regards to your main question. Naim have been very good in maintaining old products so I wouldn't be too worried about that. The only risky factor there is the drives itselfs which would need to be kept on stock. But I guess this is not a real risk for the coming let's say 5-10 years. The approach could be to stick to your current device and take a decision to buy a new one when Naim would decide to step out of this market, as they would still maintain the players.

wenger2015 posted:

CD players are on a par with turntables, as the only completely reliable way of listening to music.

Reliable has gotten a new mening suddenly!  

Naim will continue to sell CD players all the time there's a good market for them, and will continue to support them for as long as new mechanisms can be obtained.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

wenger2015 posted:

CD players are on a par with turntables, as the only completely reliable way of listening to music.

Reliable has gotten a new mening suddenly!  

 

Was just thinking the same thing. In terms of mechanical reliability the turntable is going to be very far down the list. CD somewhat higher and solid state streaming a long way above both. Go 5 years after initial setup and zero maintenance or adjustment and streaming is the only one I would put money on to still be working.

In terms of complexity and unforseen gotchas with an onus on the user to understand a bunch of non hifi related technologies then probably streaming moves to the bottom of the pile. Turntable with fiddly maintenance and manual control a bit higher and CD far above them both.

The second definition is the reliability of the user. The first of the product.

That said, there will always be the unlucky few that had a CD player march on for over a decade trouble free only to have a streamer go back for repair after weeks. 

I doubt Naim will be developing new CD players again but I expect that the commitment to the current range is safe enough for as long as mechs are available. More likely would be more polished and hassle-free developments on the UnitiServe level to make streaming as idiotproof as possible. 

 It was CD replay that got me into NAim in the first place a CD5X sounding phenomenally better than a quite well reviewed Sony I had at the time. 

 It would make sense when manufacturers are exiting the market for someone with such a fine grasp of the engineering involved to remain in the market as a larger market share of a smaller market should still be profitable.

 Still, speakers have just disappeared from the Naim portfolio so it would be nice if someone from NAim came along and confirmed that CD players are part of their long-term strategy.  It's hard to imagine that (m)any CD555s are being sold at the moment (and I am a satisfied owner of one)  -   They do appear totally overpriced and very poor value at the moment   -  but they do still sound as good as they ever did.

 All the move towards streating does mean though that there is some fantastic value to be had in the secondhand market at the moment. 

 SJB

I can't see Naim, as a business, giving any sort of long-term commitment. Good though the 555 is, and it's probably up there with the very best CD players, mine went when my DAC/ streaming setup consistently sounded better, for considerably less cost. That's the problem faced by  anyone trying to sell CD players these days; it's pretty easy to better their sound quality for much lower outlay and with more convenience. But then, if you're happy with the sound of your CD player, why mess around with streaming? Things were so much simpler when we just had vinyl!

I arrived in time to play some of my granddad's 78 RPMs (in some he was actually conducting), then LPs, 45s, cassettes, Stereo8s, CDs, Laserdiscs, VHS, DATs, DigitalCassettes (who remembers them?), DVDs, DVD-As, SACDs, SolidState Memory cards, iPods, iPads and - Last (James) but not Liszt (Franz) - HardDisk-based servers (domestic or corporate).

Who, 30 years ago, would have guessed that in 30 years turntables, arms, cartridges, replacement styluses, phono stages, pre-phono stages, LPs and even vinyl pressing plants would still be available?

That's just to say – if it's not Naim, someone else will be building what we need.

P.S And stylus gauges, brushes, disc washing machines, replacement sleeves, not to mention tubes...

Had the opportunity to hear the Statement, December of 2015.  Seminar hosted by the esteem Manu, the CD555 was not present.

 NDS/2 x 555PS/Statement/Vivid GT3

Nice to say the least, the 40 K 2014 Stereophile speaker of the year held their own!

A couple weeks ago Paragon sight and sound, hosted a Seminar. The CD and TT was in da house. Siminar B featured the Focal Sabrina's, which was on the list to hear. Not bad when fronted with a 30K Streaming System!

But Alex, stole the show! David Wilson's New 100K Speakers were superb. Sessions had to short due to the crowd. The Streamer was not on display in Seminar A.  But former Krell's guy new toy accompanied Alex (109 K Msrp)

D' Agostino's. 55K mono blocks sporting 300 watts

Ok, to the point, due to time I would say only 7-8 cuts were played, atmost 3 minutes of play. 

Two TT's and CD, hosted by the esteem Mr X.

Only 1 Record, the rest were CD's.

Perhaps to much hiss and pop!

You would think they would've chosen the best 180 gram piece of vinyl.

 So Maybe CD's aren't dead!

Didn't get the Name of TT, or CD, but one can imagine they cost a pretty penny!

When I left, I was wondering what those $109 Speakers would sound like powered by 700 watts of Statement! 

Allante93!

I still mostly depend on CD playback at main stereo. Last year I asked my dealer about the sustainability of Naim CDPs as well as their continuity. His reply was not reassuring to my dismay. 

I wait for a revamped CD5XS (current one is a little too laid back for me) but do not hold my breath.. If Naim stop manufacturing CDPs in future which is likely, getting a US would possibly be the way to go.

Hal posted:

I still mostly depend on CD playback at main stereo. Last year I asked my dealer about the sustainability of Naim CDPs as well as their continuity. His reply was not reassuring to my dismay.

He did you a disservice imo. My own dealer only too happy to help in getting my naim CD player back to Naim for a service.

Chris

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

wenger2015 posted:

CD players are on a par with turntables, as the only completely reliable way of listening to music.

Reliable has gotten a new mening suddenly!  

 

Absolutely disagree, streaming is a constantly flawed format....just read many threads on this very forum.......especially in comparison with turntables and cd players, and yes reliable is exactly the correct phrase to use.....

Insert CD into drawer; apply puck; press play.  I find that works seamlessly every time, without exception. So I'm one of those who very much hope that Naim do indeed continue to support CD players.

MDS posted:

Insert CD into drawer; apply puck; press play.  I find that works seamlessly every time, without exception. So I'm one of those who very much hope that Naim do indeed continue to support CD players.

Agree 100% 

I have Vinyl's, CD's, files (ripped CD's and downloaded Hires) and Tidal.

Each media is different and has pros and cons.

For example, if a fan of only CD's reads the forum "last CD you bought" and like to listen to a CD he (she) doesn't have,  is not that easy, unless want to make a decision to have it after listening to short samples or youtube. Nothing to do with streaming the cut with Tidal. I know, not all the music is on Tidal nor in Qobuz ...

Or listening to a CD and remember another track in other CD: leave the coach, go to the CD rack, look for the CD and after a while discover that somebody took it and at best is in who knows what place in the rack...

Without leaving the coach, take the Iphone, A+ app, search the ripped file or search Tidal, play.

I love vinyl's and cd's, but for convinience and ease, streaming.

A Mac with A+, and now that A+ is integrated with different streaming services, with a reasonable library manager, I find the combination a great/very convenient/easy to use/reliable (have a backup for local files) music replay system.

Regards.  Erich

A CD5 is what first got me into the Naim universe around 15 years ago. 

Naim will continue to make CD players for as long as people continue to buy them. They have gone to some lengths to ensure older models remain serviceable and have for the most part succeeded. It doesn't make any difference what other people may or may not think of the format or other formats. If you want a Naim CDP you should have one. 

funny reading this thread as i have actualy been thinking of getting me a CD player -- probably CDS3...

enjoy...

ken

I respect those who want to continue to use CD as their main replay medium but I have always found them fiddly specially the sleeve  notes. I have invested heavily on magnifying  glasses to read them through out the years. But each to their own. 

I have now ripped all  my CDS and it is as if a burden has been lifted off my shoulder. 

I am sure Naim will still cater for those  who still enjoy CD replay in years to come  and will still look after them. Why? Because that's what what they do  and that's why we respect the company so much. 

I love streaming, and am considering selling my CD5X since I only use it as a backup (although I will still have an Arcam DVD player for that purpose.)

That said, it is clear to me that CD is more "reliable" than streaming.  Streaming is subject to the foibles of all computers, networks, and software bugs and glitches.  More than a few times I have tried to use my streaming setup, only find it needs a reboot, another component restarted, resetting the network, etc.  CD just works...until it doesn't.  I also believe that most CD players will outlast most computer based servers from date of purchase...and my iron willed desire to keep any and all aspects of my life off the cloud for as long as I can will mean reliance on  my own computer hardware.

I don't see how a CD player is more reliable than a good streaming set up.  I have copies of my files on a server and on my PC both of which run Asset.  If one fails the second is still available and I can stream anywhere in the house on multiple devices so even if my streamer fails I can listen on another device.  I mainly listen via my Mac and dac now but streaming provides a level of redundancy not available to any other format imo

wenger2015 posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

wenger2015 posted:

CD players are on a par with turntables, as the only completely reliable way of listening to music.

Reliable has gotten a new mening suddenly!  

 

Absolutely disagree, streaming is a constantly flawed format....just read many threads on this very forum.......especially in comparison with turntables and cd players, and yes reliable is exactly the correct phrase to use.....

As I mentioned earlier, don't confuse simplicity for reliability. Neither CD or tuntables come close to the mechanical reliability of streaming. Yet streaming requires a degree of complexity and reliability on the part of the user rather than the product. Mechanically, both are liable to fail more than streaming over a given period. I would agree that expecting all users to have the knowledge to setup streaming frm day 1 to be trouble free is a bit of a stretch when they can drop a disc in a player and just hit play comparitively.

On the other hand, there are some on the forum who have just as unrealistic expectatins in the other direction and think streaming should be magic and expect a streamer to sprout legs and run around the home setting up the server, configuring the router, popping down the shops to get a quality switch and generally doinga ll manner of things a streamer can never do and then when it fails to sprout those legs and perform magic they claim it is poorly thought out and flawed.

It is all relative. To those of us who never got into vinyl (and despite it being the format of choice for my formative years I somehow never did) streaming seems like a doddle in comparison to all the fiddley twaeks, circus upgrde kits, tracking adjustments, cartridge and belt replacements, phono stages, tonearm options etc. involved in vinyl replay.

No offense should be taken or inferred by my comments. I just think people need to go with the format they are comfortable and enjoy the music. The fact is, CD is still around today and Naim still do procude CD players. Given that the format has peaked long ago, there probably isn't much need to continue to develop new products for it but if CD is your thing, I don't think there is too much to be concerned about. As long as CD remains the only format of release for most uncompressed audio (and anyone who thinks most mustic is available on lossless download services like HDtracks is either kidding themselves or has a very narrow taste in mustic), someone somewhere will be making high end CD players. 99% of my collection is not available for lossless download and I doubt that fact has escaped Naim (though it escaped Linn apparently).

I think functionality might be the better word in this discussion. There's not much of a learning curve with CDs and LPs. Most everyone can load a CD and press play. Most can set an LP on a platter and cue a needle. Setting up files on a server, and the interfaces between the network, apps, and control devices is more complex and can lead to problems that are not readily apparent in the virtual realm. That's the initial functionality hurdle and physical media may have the advantage in that regard. Once properly set up and running though, the "steamers" may gain the long-term functionality advantage. In addition, many TT owners rely on a dealer to properly set-up their decks and carts. It's kind of a horses for courses discussion, but based on the topics seen on this forum there are definitely more problems getting things started with streaming than with physical media.

Perhaps Naim or their representative on the Forum could comment on this concern?