RP6 and HICAP upgrade to XS

Hi Snaic,

Glad to hear you're hearing some changes for the better. (Right?)

As far as burn-in for your turntable/cartridge is concerned, I'd say you're pretty much there. I recently got an Exact for my LP12/Aro/'Geddon -- setting aside that I needed to make a bunch of adjustments to the Aro to eliminate some right-channel distortion (that I heard on a handful of records), the cartridge hasn't changed much, if at all, since I brought it home. I'd be surprised if the Hicap needs any burn-in time, either.

The only change I'd make to the siting of your components would be to place the TTPSU alongside the Hicap at the bottom of the rack, if you can. I take it you have a wall shelf for the RP6?

What cartridge did you have before the Exact? I too run my Exact into a Stageline N and it seems a happier match than the DV 10x5 I ran with it previously.

ATB,

Joe

Had RP3/Elys.

I have a wall rack, and the power cord from the TTPSU to the RP6 is really short, in fact I MUST keep it on the top shelf.

It's better, but I'm afraid my expectations were set so high (by me); it may not be able to meet them. :/

Snaic,

The Exact does not have a particularly wide soundstage and it's possible the Rega DAC is wider. The Exact is not an especially revealing cart - it tends to genericize the sound between LPs. Good in that poorer mastered LPs play more consistently although you may not hear the most out of better mastered LPs.

On paper you've got a very good system. Give it time and make the tweaks you can. Adjusting the Credos was a good move in that regard. It's possible the HC may not be the best match for the Nait XS; however, the HC ought to show a notable improvement dedicated to the Stageline. Might be worth (in time) chasing down a 4-5 for that configuration.

System is more revealing for sure, less warm, seems to be a bit shrill on the highs and missing some middle.  It's snappier and fleet, though...instruments sound more realistic, but voices are kind of annoying me.

I've gorged myself on vinyl over the past 9 months and listened perhaps too much.  I think I need to step away from the system for a few days and come back, because I've over analyzed and overblown my expectations of what an upgrade might be able to offer.  Sometimes I think I look for something that no sound system can actually give.  Usually when I get like this taking a week off will help.

I would be tempted to remove the Hicap altogether, or maybe try a Flatcap instead. The trouble with picking up a used bargain can be that you make expensive mistakes that you might have avoided with the help of a dealer. 

Also, what rack are you using? Are your cables in order, with clean plugs and well soldered speaker plugs etc. Any scope for a bit of fettling here, or with room acoustics?

I found that the Exact needs quite a few hours to sound at it best. I would probably not buy the Exact on another turntable but the synergy with the RP6 is absolutely wonderful and I enjoy it very much. I have an XS-2 with HiCap DR and a stageline N via the powered AUX2.

ChrisSU posted:

I would be tempted to remove the Hicap altogether, or maybe try a Flatcap instead. The trouble with picking up a used bargain can be that you make expensive mistakes that you might have avoided with the help of a dealer. 

Also, what rack are you using? Are your cables in order, with clean plugs and well soldered speaker plugs etc. Any scope for a bit of fettling here, or with room acoustics?

This is through my dealer who has never stopped lauding the HICAP, dealers are...well...dealers.  At this price point I got the HICAP for what a used FC costs anyway.

I'm using a Quadraspire Q4 EVO rack. 

I've been listening too hard at this thing for too long so I'm going to take a few days away from the system to cool my jets some.  It seems truly enjoyable listening can't be forced, which is what I'm trying to do to myself. 

P.S.  My cable situation is a lost cause, no room, and too many cables OMG.

I'm not sure where you keep the Stageline but it's really worth keeping it as far as possible from power supplies. I noticed a big difference when I moved mine away from my Lingo a couple of years back.

My stageline stands on top of my Rega TT-PSU and I could not hear any difference when I tried it moved away. Maybe it depends on the PSU..

SNAIC in the Grass posted:

System is more revealing for sure, less warm, seems to be a bit shrill on the highs and missing some middle.  It's snappier and fleet, though...instruments sound more realistic, but voices are kind of annoying me.

I've gorged myself on vinyl over the past 9 months and listened perhaps too much.  I think I need to step away from the system for a few days and come back, because I've over analyzed and overblown my expectations of what an upgrade might be able to offer.  Sometimes I think I look for something that no sound system can actually give.  Usually when I get like this taking a week off will help.

 

I just picked up a demo RP6 with brand new Exact as well. On some records (upfront female vocals in particular) it sounded shouty and ssss'y. As I have been playing it for two weeks it's calmed down quite a bit and is sounding fuller and warmer with more details. Have heard Exact's take about 40ish hours to break-in. 

I've found even with used Naim gear it takes 2-3 weeks being powered on to really settle in and sound it's best.

I second Joerand's suggestion of trying the HC on the Stageline and then taking the signal back to the XS from the HC with a 4-5 interconnect. (When your jets have cooled, that is).

C.

The Exact is not so good. Midrange is good, bass and treble poor. 

Marksnaim posted:

I'm not sure where you keep the Stageline but it's really worth keeping it as far as possible from power supplies. I noticed a big difference when I moved mine away from my Lingo a couple of years back.

Stageline is on its own shelf.

Christopher_M posted:

I second Joerand's suggestion of trying the HC on the Stageline and then taking the signal back to the XS from the HC with a 4-5 interconnect. (When your jets have cooled, that is).

C.

I may try this, but first I want to take a few days to relax until I really want to hear some music.  Then I want to give the Exact more hours before I freak out.  If after awhile this doesn't get any better I'll mention to my dealer what the issue is and perhaps borrow a 4-5, and try other things.

I'm really happy with a Hicap on my XS, sounds very enjoyable for me. On the other side, the Exact was not so much to my liking, too slow for my taste.

So your Hicap is non-DR? I would see if your dealer will lend you a Hicap DR to try, and if you like what you hear you can upgrade yours. 

Thought about that, but I just stretched to get the HICAP...what is the cost to upgrade one to DR?

Snaic,

I realize it's early in your findings and you want to chill for a while with what you're hearing. You also want to bounce things off the forum. All good.

The thing that's not adding up for me is you say you've bought the HC from a dealer and now you're asking about the cost of a DR upgrade. Presumably, a home demo would have been the premise with a dealer; a trial basis, in which case you'd be open to ask for options to compare a HCDR and FCXS (with its required ICs) - from the dealer. Have you somehow been dealt this HC with no option for recourse or remorse?

In sympathy: I have a Planar3/Exact/Fono that was heart-stopping at the old place, with the TT isolated in a built-in cupboard of some mass; now, in the new place, on Fraim, with questionable speaker placement, TT performance has slipped.  Keep fiddling the details!  They matter.  

Best,

Nick

joerand posted:

Snaic,

I realize it's early in your findings and you want to chill for a while with what you're hearing. You also want to bounce things off the forum. All good.

The thing that's not adding up for me is you say you've bought the HC from a dealer and now you're asking about the cost of a DR upgrade. Presumably, a home demo would have been the premise with a dealer; a trial basis, in which case you'd be open to ask for options to compare a HCDR and FCXS (with its required ICs) - from the dealer. Have you somehow been dealt this HC with no option for recourse or remorse?

Yeah if I don't like it I can take it back, its just a used one they had in stock, not sure if they even have a used FC.  I'm not high and dry, but I just got the new items Friday so I've probably been panicking prematurely.

SNAIC in the Grass posted:

Yeah if I don't like it I can take it back...., I'm not high and dry

Good for you then. Give it all time to sink in. The Exact might need some run in, as well as your ears. Listen comfortably to a lot of different LPs and focus on the music, not the hi-fi. You'll make the decision that's best for you in the end.

Update...

I backed off a bit, starting playing 1-2 records per day this week.  Somewhere around Thu/Fri I played Prince - Purple Rain and was shocked how good it sounded.  Played some reggae in the last 24 hours and it was good as well.  At first the lows were booming and the highs were grating on me, seemed to be no middle.  Now its starting to sound full again, and it sure is different...high volumes really were offensive to me in the high end.

 - It seems to be much more agile, while also being more precise...talking about the bass here mostly...its very aggressive and moves like a tiger on the bass end.  Bass is very clean, smooth.

 - Vocals are much better enunciated, and I can make out lyrics more clearly, new sounds abound that I hadn't quite heard in the same music before.

 - The system is more "masculine" if you will, and club/electronic stuff sounds stellar...really a booming system now.  Feels a bit "younger" than what I listened to before...and if it were much more youthful / powerful I'd wouldn't like it.  In my next upgrade I may try to get more warmth from the system, but right now its pretty exciting and exhilarating.

 - Also, I'm not focusing as much on the upgrade as I was before and simply listening to the music.

 - The HICAP really did wonders for my digital experience which I had pretty much given up on.

 - The noise floor of vinyl is nearly completely gone, it seems before that all I heard was the noisy vinyl with my last setup, but now I hear next to nothing in the way of noise when I play records.

 - The PRAT has changed...after each upgrade to my system where I introduce a Naim piece, music seems to "slow down" some, and becomes more deliberate; this has been the case with this upgrade as well.  It's amazing how it seems to perambulate through the music and keeps me waiting for the next beat sometimes. 

- More musical now, as the pieces seem to be coming together and mixing into music rather than disparate sounds that did not seem to combine well.

I'm sure it will keep getting better, but now it finally seems to be coming around!

SITG

Hi Snaic,

I'm so glad to hear that the Hicap is working out for you. Your experience in adding a Hicap to a Nait mirrors my own: a lower noise floor on vinyl and greater intelligibility of vocals were clearly heard in these parts, as well. Along with a bit more bass -- never a bad thing, in my book.

All best,

Joe

Funny thing is when I first upgraded the system was shrill, and I started moving my speakers around, and finally put my front grill covers on.  After awhile now I've moved my speakers back where they were, and I've taken the grills off.

My rack hums now with the HICAP.

Hi Snaic.  Good to hear that your new system is coming together.  Keep up the patience and enjoy all that recently acquired music.  Once it settles in it may just be totally to your liking.  If any "edge" remains, then consider putting some effort into cable dressing.  This usually pays off, and your system is at a level that deserves this attention.

I just got a new 180g copy of a live Doors concert, which you might enjoy - the first vinyl I have purchased in years.

Enjoy,

Charlie