Upgrade NAP 100 to NAP 200

Morning,

If you are considering a NAP200DR, I'd enlist the help of a dealer, since you are unlikely to be able to find one privately. He should be able to give you a meaningful comparisson with a NAP200 allowing you to weigh up whether the latter's on costs are worth it when combined with the lower purchase price.

I'd be interested in knowing how a pair of Naim Arivas (or similar) sound with your existing electronics in your new room.

Chris

Thanks Chris, sorry to be unclear, it's either a new NAP 200 DR or second hand (preferably through a dealer) NAP 200. Minor problem is the only dealer in town does not carry or demo the 200 (only 100 and 250DR). Also very difficult to try older Naim speakers here in Stockholm.

Janus

The short answer is the NAP 200 DR features a single Naim DR module which powers the attached pre-amplifier like the NAC 202 or 282. Other, minor improvements aside, there will be no advantage when used with the DAC-V1.

Go for a good, used NAP200. A worthwhile upgrade.

Dave

I agree, there's very little, if anything to be gained by putting  a 200DR in your system, save your cash and look for a good used 200.

Janus posted:

Also very difficult to try older Naim speakers here in Stockholm.

IMO its very difficult to try older Naim speakers anywhere. You'd have to take a punt on them. That's what I did to get mine. Worked fantastically for me. Might not work for you. What's the worst that can happen? You sell them on for a small loss.

The reason I mention the whole issue of a pair of used Arivas is that I'd be reluctant to break up what looks to me to be a modern classic combination of Naim electonics. As ever, it seems to boil down to which end of the telescope one uses to look at the 'problem'.

Hope it all works out for you.

Best, C.

The PMC 23 is really excellent. You are right that it needs more power than a 100 can provide, and a 200 should be fine. I see little point in the 200DR, as the V1 is self powered. Try to find a good recent 200 and you'll have ages before it needs servicing. 

Thanks guys for all the help. I will go for a pre-loved NAP 200. I considered a SuperNait 2 in combination with my DAC-V1 but I do not think it will add very much. Also, yesterday PMC announced new twenty5 speakers so that will be interesting to hear.

Hm, I'm sure you will be very happy with a Nap200, however, I had virtually the same system as you at one point but with a Hugo instead of the Dac V1 and Guru Junirs, and after trying a 202/200 against a Supernait 2 opted for the latter.  I think the 202/200 vs Supernait 2 is a matter of taste but the SN2 is a huge huge step up from a Nap 100 and more than capable with the 20:23s which I liked but not as much as the Focal Arias, so I would have to disagree that an SN2 would not add very much, because it surely does 

Thanks Dayjay that is very interesting to read, I might demo the SN2 (I am not in a rush). I assume you bought the Aria 936's? I still like the Guru Junior's that I will keep for my Nait 2.

I loved my Guru Juniors, brilliant little speakers although a little directional I thought.  After listening to a lot of speakers up to around £3k I bought the Aria 926s which I like very much indeed and which seem to work really well with Naim amps.  If I hadn't heard the Arias I would have bought the 20:23s I suspect.  Whatever you buy take your time and have a good listen and, especially for speakers, try to have them in your home on your system for at least a week.  Have fun!   

having compared NAP100 to NAP200, the NAP 200 is significantly better, one of the real keepers in the Naim range

I bet any 200 either recapped or not will be definitely miles better than any 100 into your DAc-V1.

I had a similar dilemma when I wanted to go for an amp upgrade to partner the V1, i.e whether to add a NAP200 or SN2, or maybe even a 250.  I had always used the V1 as a DAC only into an integrated amp, so knew it performed very well in that kind of configuration.  I went with the SN2 in part because I felt in the long run it would result in less swapping around and extra boxes in the future.  If I had gone the NAP route using the V1 as a pre-amp, then should I wish to upgrade the DAC, I'd need to add a pre-amp as well, and I didn't really want the hassle, or that many boxes.  Plus the SN2 is a superb amplifier, it brought a massive improvement for me, though of course my starting point was not a NAP100.  The DAC-V1 and SN2 seem to get along very well indeed, a really good match in my view.  Better or worse than a 200 is an unknown to me, I never auditioned the 200 in the end, but depending on where you want to head in terms of boxes, and indeed expense, I would suggest that the SN2 is worth a listen, and does have DR tech in its built in power supply to the pre-amp.

I don't know between a NAP200 and SN2 with a V1, but I can say that IMHO the 200 was a big step up from the 100 for me. I really like the 100 and didn't feel the 155xs was worth the upgrade, but the 200 certainly was. It's a good time to buy a non-DR 200 second hand - which will be equally good with a V1 - and you should get a very decent one for under a grand (in sterling).

I have just moved from a NAP 100 to NAP 200 this weekend. At the moment I am using an Unitiqute 2 as the front end and I notice a big difference in sounds. There is much bigger soundstage, the bass is deep and with more punch and I am also finding other instruments jumping out a lot more. I purchased a second hand one that had just been serviced and recapped and very happy.  You can get a nice second hand 200 for a few hundred pound more than your NAP 100.

I am also replacing my unitiqute with NAC N 172 in the next few weeks.

Thanks Songstream. i also do not like to keep on swapping around and minimize on the amount of boxes.  However, it feels strange to try a SN2 that contains 6 analogue inputs while I use 3 digital sources (I play my vinyl on a second Nait2 setup - no space to connect it to a SN2). But I should let me ears decide if I prefer a DAC V1 / NAP 200 (non DR) vs. SN2 / DAC V1. Of course there is a huge price difference between the two. 

I have been thinking about replacing NAP100 with 200 for some time. To put simply NAP 100 seems to lack grunt for PMC20.21.

Also adding DAC V1 which should be a better pre-amp compared to UQ2 would bring about extra sonic benefits, I believe.  However, if I add DAC V1 I will lose app volume control that I enjoy now..

Janus posted:

Thanks Songstream. i also do not like to keep on swapping around and minimize on the amount of boxes.  However, it feels strange to try a SN2 that contains 6 analogue inputs while I use 3 digital sources (I play my vinyl on a second Nait2 setup - no space to connect it to a SN2). But I should let me ears decide if I prefer a DAC V1 / NAP 200 (non DR) vs. SN2 / DAC V1. Of course there is a huge price difference between the two. 

 

 

 

Yes, I too only use a single input on the SN2 and four digital sources into the V1.  But with 6 analogue inputs and 6 digital inputs available, at least I know I've got enough.  Better to be safe.  ;-)  I hope you will share your experiences and preferences once you've had the chance to audition alternative kit to the NAP 100, and look forward to reading them if you do.  Good luck, and enjoy.

Hal posted:

I have been thinking about replacing NAP100 with 200 for some time. To put simply NAP 100 seems to lack grunt for PMC20.21.

Also adding DAC V1 which should be a better pre-amp compared to UQ2 would bring about extra sonic benefits, I believe.  However, if I add DAC V1 I will lose app volume control that I enjoy now..

If you want more clout from your amp and app control, you could consider a Superuniti. It's power amp isn't as refined as a standalone NAP200, but it has plenty of power, and all the functionality of the Qute. 

Janus posted:

Hi, I have been very pleased with my DAC V1 / NAP 100 / Guru Junior setup the last couple of years. Source has always been a Mac Mini (Roon + Audinirvana) + Sonos Connect. Since I moved to a new place with 5 x 5 living room, I find the speakers lack some 'grunt' especially in heavier rock (e.g. Tool). I have auditioned some speakers and really liked the PMC's (either .22 or .23's - not sure yet). After reading a lot on this website, it seems a definite step up to upgrade my NAP 100 to a NAP 200. 

Now the question is, are there any advantages on buying the newer DR version - considering I will probably not buy a 202 Pre-amp in the future? It does feel like I am more future proof with the DR version - of course price is roughly twice as high. If I buy an older 200 I will need to recap sooner etc. Any thoughts?

Janus, 

I have done a lot of comparative listening to non-DR and DR versions of Naim amplifiers - I would say that one of the main differences of going to the DR versions are the subtleties that they give over the non-DR brethren.  The complete dynamic range seems to benefit from the DR version amplifiers - with more timbral accuracy and a more refined sound  - now please bare in mind, this depends on the remainder of your kit and if it will allow the DR version amplifier to perform at its best. If you are planning on going to the NAC 202 in the future - I would recommend to highly consider spending the extra on the DR version NAP 200.  But the best thing to do is always have a listen yourself and see what you feel about the difference in performance.  

I hope this helps. 

Regards, 

Joe of Hi-Fi Corner Edinburgh

Thanks Joe for the information, very useful. But if I understand correctly the DR only improves in combination with a Pre (typically a 202) - which I do not prefer (too many boxes). Any experience on DAC-V1 / NAP 200 vs. SN2 with V1 as pure DAC?

Janus, 

I wouldn't say that you only get the benefit of the DR by using the "matching" pre - the benefits will be heard with "most" pre-amplifiers - they will just be "better" presented the better the pre is.  

As for the pre/amplifer comparison - its a hard one - the pre section of the SN2 is better than that of the V1, while the NAP200 has an ever so slight hand up on the SN2's amplification - I would probably recommend going with V1-200 combo, if I planned on upgrading my pre later - if there wasn't any upgrade plans for the a while, then I would probably go with the SN2/V1 combo...but it is a hard one...if possible, then I would definitely try to have a listen...before making a decision.  Sorry this might not have been very helpful...

Regards, 

Joe 

Thanks Joe, that is actually very helpful and I will listen extensively (if possible) before buying anything.