High End Munich

Jude, I think the closest comparison will be the Fact 8 to the Twenty5 26. As a long time admiring of the Fact series I will be interested to hear this one with the latter now being more expensive. 

Had a short listen into the PMC speakers. I had never heard them and have to say they soudded enjoyable. Just too short listen to have an educated opinion.

more information to come on the overall show....

Mayor West posted:

Jude, I think the closest comparison will be the Fact 8 to the Twenty5 26. As a long time admiring of the Fact series I will be interested to hear this one with the latter now being more expensive. 

Mayor West posted:

Jude, I think the closest comparison will be the Fact 8 to the Twenty5 26. As a long time admiring of the Fact series I will be interested to hear this one with the latter now being mo

One of PMC's reps bought some speaker grilles to my house once. I asked him why they add biwire terminals and he said it was just fashion, and nothing to do with sound quaility. The single wired approach in the new twenty5 series is a good move. I wonder how long the twenty series will last - it seems odd to run them together. 

So we always talk about adding power supplies to our beloved black boxes, now this is what I would call a powersupply, seen yesterday at the show...

So for me again the one of the best sounds at the show or the best was the setup with Gauder Berlina 8 speakers and AVM electronics. The guy who writes in the magazine stereo on jazz albums, was again playing the DJ and it was as always a great joy to listen to the music and to listen to his presentation. 

Another room I always like to visit is the room of MBL, they are building also very special and expensive systems. The sound is also close too perfect, while I am asking myself if the system can also deal with that setup with speed, but I assume it does. They had Martin Vatter a piano player visiting and he was running some music and explaining background. He is the creator of quite some audiophile recordings from the Bauer Studios.

The Naim presentation was built up as always. On the one side the Focal Speakers. An area for the new kid on the block, a rounded presentation of the Muso QB, other Naim devices in the corners. A presentation of the label, an area which showed the different Super alumina Cables...photo below and then the central listening box.

The presentation in the listening box took a bit long to start, but ok. They presented NDS / 500DR system with Focal Sopra 3. And achieved the typical direct sound of Naim. While I am still not a fan of the combination of Naim with Focal I believe it leads to a too direct sound, they went through the typical pattern of not specific high end classics but just music. Enjoyable but not ground breaking. What I hoped I couldn't get out of it. I hoped to be able to make up the difference between my non DR 500 and this one. But the sound was to much sterile to compare it with what I have at home, and anyhow what was I thinking, you can only do such a comparison with a A-B or in your own we'll know system context.

It's always good to hear the not typical show sound which we all like so much...... Ps more have started to bring a non typical show music choice....

There are some really good pictures here, Bert. It looks like a really interesting show. Next to MBL and the like, the Naim stuff looks so small and ordinary. It's far more discreet of course, and it's interesting how so much of the expensive stuff has shiny bits all over it to make it look expensive. 

Mayor West posted:

Jude, I think the closest comparison will be the Fact 8 to the Twenty5 26. As a long time admiring of the Fact series I will be interested to hear this one with the latter now being more expensive. 

Lots of great stuff on show...

I doubt my Fact3s are going anywhere.  Will give the PMC boys a call when they return from Munich to satisfy my curiosity.

Jude

One of these very special systems, every year on the show, and every year kind of entertaining to see......

We always talk about super lumina cabling etc...., now this is what I call cabling from Mark Johnson...

These guys always also have a great sound with the horns, even their zero system is sounding special. Avantgarde Akustik...., this time however they hadn't put on the dsp for the bass control and it was not so tight as before. Still remarkable.....

I always have a special interest for earphones and headphones. And was well treated this year.

First I heard the new Ultrasone Tribute 7. A very warm and rounded sound, while I belief their Unlimited 5 sounded better, more true to the music.

Heard the new Senheiser 800S. I was never such a fan of the original 800, but was pleasantly surprised by the 800S. Had the feeling it was less edgy and warmer sounding, so I liked it a lot.

Then I had a very special encounter with the Shure KSE1500. And amazing electrostatic in ear system. Which will set you back for roughly 2700 euros. Is a better than the SE846 I own ? Better is a difficult word in this context. The KSE excels in everything, very precise very good extension, amazing sound never heard before on that level. The special thing about the SE846 is the bass. While the KSE also has a great bass, it's not as massive as the other one. So better, definitely...., but also different. So 846 owners might like it if they want to go even further in true sound. They might also miss something of what they liked on the 846. I would need a more extended session to be able to say if it's worth for me to make the change as it also comes with a separate small amp, making it overall less portable.

So overall a good show. Not too much very exciting new stuff. But always a complete overview of what is available and a must visit for me. I might even consider to go for a 2nd day on Sunday.

Hungryhalibut posted:

One of PMC's reps bought some speaker grilles to my house once. I asked him why they add biwire terminals and he said it was just fashion, and nothing to do with sound quaility. The single wired approach in the new twenty5 series is a good move. I wonder how long the twenty series will last - it seems odd to run them together. 

Interesting.  Inside the boxes of the twentys there are a couple of observations on this point - first the very functional crimped on female spades that connect the cables from the drivers to the crossover look cheap and rather nasty making a bit of a mockery of the external heavy duty binding posts. I hope they've sorted this in the twenty5. Second, the diameter of the cables from the crossover to the drivers is different, with the mid driver having a thinner gauge to the other 2, so PMC must've thought that different cables make some kind of difference?  So why remove the extra binding posts?

Shame they're going to one pair of binding posts, will make them much harder to convert for Exakt which turns them into a speaker performing at twice their retail price (or any other manufacturer's active approach, such as Devialet). Does make more sense for normal passive operation though.

The twenty range will see a 10% reduction in price and will continue for the forseeable.  Will also be available in black ash soon.

As for looks, whilst the twenty series looks fine sans grille in a hifi show or shop, at home, the 3 different drive styles and visible mounting bolts make them look too industrial, so I run mine with the grilles in place.  The new ones have that silver tweeter grille which, to me, makes them even messier looking.

Looking forward to hearing a pair and hoping they will collaborate with Exakt.

Not sure the model, but the blue focal speakers looked beautiful.

Well, after an apparently somewhat low-key show at Munich, let's hope naim is now up for something great for us all! Perhaps a preamp refresh (not for me though, happy with my 272), or a HD5XS server with full SSD? Or speaker correction alla SAM?

S.

+1 on a new/upgraded Naim network streamer/SSD server.

Perhaps one which would allow owners the option of all but future-proofing their streamer/server by partnering it with a native DSD64/DSD128 capable DAC, & by-pass Naim's onboard PCM 24bit/192kHz DAC, with the addition of high quality digital outputs - preferably dual AES/EBU outputs. As well as repeating the NDS' successful use of outboard power-supplies.

Much like Aurender's W20. Which, especially when fed with the best recorded/mastered media, i'm told by experienced & reliable ears is the 'quietest & most realistic sounding' source they've yet heard.

Bobby.

Can I ask why some folks see the need for a pre-amp reconfiguration?  Surely the DR changes to the PSUs has met the need?

Regards,

Lindsay 

Hi Lindsay,

yeah, it's difficult to imagine how the preamps could be improved, but it will happen one day. If only to adapt the 202/282 etc. input sensitivity to modern sources...

S.

Bert Schurink posted:

I always have a special interest for earphones and headphones. And was well treated this year.

 

First I heard the new Ultrasone Tribute 7. A very warm and rounded sound, while I belief their Unlimited 5 sounded better, more true to the music.

 

Heard the new Senheiser 800S. I was never such a fan of the original 800, but was pleasantly surprised by the 800S. Had the feeling it was less edgy and warmer sounding, so I liked it a lot.

 

Then I had a very special encounter with the Shure KSE1500. And amazing electrostatic in ear system. Which will set you back for roughly 2700 euros. Is a better than the SE846 I own ? Better is a difficult word in this context. The KSE excels in everything, very precise very good extension, amazing sound never heard before on that level. The special thing about the SE846 is the bass. While the KSE also has a great bass, it's not as massive as the other one. So better, definitely...., but also different. So 846 owners might like it if they want to go even further in true sound. They might also miss something of what they liked on the 846. I would need a more extended session to be able to say if it's worth for me to make the change as it also comes with a separate small amp, making it overall less portable.

Very interesting Bert, thanks.

I just forget to mention in my brief the room with surround high end. And I always was of the opinion that this was more a trick then a real xperience. However it was quite immersive and exciting. There was a guy from native DSD which showed us the effect of two orchestras and some other special recordings which utilized the effect. Especially a vocal ensemble recorded around a center microphone was an impressive experience.

so definitely something to watch, while I think it will stay a niche, which is a pity....

I also reflected back on my experience with the Shure KSE1500 and would describe it as the statement in the in ears. And experience I have never had with this kind of solution. So I will definitely give it a second try if I can, it is by far the best way of listening music in a mobile way.

So if you can have a listen.