DAC-V1 vs. Hugo

if you can then to get the best out of hugo i would recommend that you use optical pc to hugo cable to prevent electrical noise from your computer corrupting the hugo sound quality. hugo fixed output is 3v so louder, simply turn volume down so level is same as v1. try blind testing so u do not know which is which. humans have a tendency to prefer the sound which is brightest or loudest which can become fatiguing after a while. it you cannot tell the difference 10 out of 10 times in blind testing then just choose which you like the look of or the cheapest!

This is a strange thread: you have both the V1 and the Hugo in your house, and yet you are asking others what the differences are. Is there a problem with your ears?

All test results will be inaccurate and at most misleading if the two sources loudness level are not equal. Our ears will tend to favour louder source even it is by 0.5dB 

I think the ability to switch between sources so easily is a disadvantage. Once you've got the Hugo volume right, I would give then each DAC a few days where you forget them and just enjoy your music as normal.

For me, quick changes end up with me making the wrong decision, or unable to make a decision at all. 

good point, you could do both, switching and longer term listening on each to be sure you make the right decision

Will try to get the volume as close as possible, first listen today left me with the impression  that the Hugo was a bit more pronounced but that could very well be due to the extra volume it is set at, even if slightly louder...

Hungryhalibut posted:

This is a strange thread: you have both the V1 and the Hugo in your house, and yet you are asking others what the differences are. Is there a problem with your ears?

I agree with HH. If you have both you will be able to evaluate - and you will also no doubt be aware how to set the Hugo output level to match your other inputs...

But switching in real time between the two will reveal little other than presentation differences. With quality components the benefits and nuance of the respective quality of devices  becomes apparent after extended listening.

One technique I have used is compare one device over a whole weekend, and then another device the following weekend. The time interval is good at 'resetting' any compensations your brain applies. Listen to some familiar tracks of various music styles and types and make notes of what is drawing you in, sounding attractive, noticing for the first time or finding absent  Do this with the same music the next weekend and make separate notes - then compare. You will then get a feel of the respective benefits that these devices provide in your system, your music in your room with your ears.

Works well for me - and helps me avoid snap judgements that I later regret. I have also found that a similar method has been described in an  AES paper for audio quality evaluation.

Simon

I have just recently returned a DAC V1 after issues with the unit and have replaced it with a HUGO (after demoing).

To my ears there  was an immediate and vast improvement over the DAC V1. But every ones ears are different, so let yours decide

To the OP, aside from comparing the Hugo, how well does the V1 pair with your 282 / 250DR?  I assume you must feel there is room for improvement given the comparison you're trying to make, but does the V1 perform well in this setup, or is it shown up to be a weak link?

Also, I completely agree with a couple of comments above when it comes to the comparison, and would advise you live with each for a good long period.  Changing back an fourth all the time will be a distraction from the enjoyment of either of the devices you have, and is a pain in the behind anyway.  Use each as for a week and enjoy music, then make a decision would me my advice.

In my experience, this wasn't something that needed chopping and changing to get an answer... Hugo was miles ahead in every aspect of performance compared to the V1. But, as advised by others, only your ears can decide! 

SongStream posted:

To the OP, aside from comparing the Hugo, how well does the V1 pair with your 282 / 250DR?  I assume you must feel there is room for improvement given the comparison you're trying to make, but does the V1 perform well in this setup, or is it shown up to be a weak link?

Also, I completely agree with a couple of comments above when it comes to the comparison, and would advise you live with each for a good long period.  Changing back an fourth all the time will be a distraction from the enjoyment of either of the devices you have, and is a pain in the behind anyway.  Use each as for a week and enjoy music, then make a decision would me my advice.

I am generally happy with the DAC-V1 minus the fact that I am not having the best of times with DSD playback, I get some pops and very brief volume drops when I playback DSD, always thought it was decent system, but I always wondered if perhaps it was the weakest element in my rack, I would like to stick to Naim as much as possible, so thought of moving up to the Naim DAC classic, but due to the lack of USB I was not happy to do so (I am not a fan of USB to SPDIFF converters and all that stuff)

Therefore the testing now to see if there really is a difference, and so far after a day of testing the Hugo I definitely have no issues at all with DSD, and some of the more "energetic tracks" sound a bit fuller with the Hugo, will continue testing for a few more days before I make up my mind on whether the Hugo stays or the DAC-V1 stays.

I wish Naim would share a roadmap, if I knew they were coming up with a new upgraded DAC with USB I would wait

And after 3 hours of playback my new NAP 250 decided to quit on me :-(

This is the first time this happened, it just shut down at the end of my listening session when I tried listened to two tracks louder than usual....  I checked it and found it is way hotter than usual... This is pretty strange because I have always listened to music longer and many times much louder and it always amazed me how cool the NAP250 runs compared to other amps I tested in my setup (such as the Devialet)...

Turned it off, waited 15 minutes and switched it back on, the lights are back on, it works, but definitely a worry.... Will call my dealer after the weekend.

and you are using at least 3.5metres per channel of NACA5 ?

I am using a 3 meter SuperLumina cable..

thijazi posted:

SongStream posted:

To the OP, aside from comparing the Hugo, how well does the V1 pair with your 282 / 250DR?  I assume you must feel there is room for improvement given the comparison you're trying to make, but does the V1 perform well in this setup, or is it shown up to be a weak link?

Also, I completely agree with a couple of comments above when it comes to the comparison, and would advise you live with each for a good long period.  Changing back an fourth all the time will be a distraction from the enjoyment of either of the devices you have, and is a pain in the behind anyway.  Use each as for a week and enjoy music, then make a decision would me my advice.

I am generally happy with the DAC-V1 minus the fact that I am not having the best of times with DSD playback, I get some pops and very brief volume drops when I playback DSD, always thought it was decent system, but I always wondered if perhaps it was the weakest element in my rack, I would like to stick to Naim as much as possible, so thought of moving up to the Naim DAC classic, but due to the lack of USB I was not happy to do so (I am not a fan of USB to SPDIFF converters and all that stuff)

Therefore the testing now to see if there really is a difference, and so far after a day of testing the Hugo I definitely have no issues at all with DSD, and some of the more "energetic tracks" sound a bit fuller with the Hugo, will continue testing for a few more days before I make up my mind on whether the Hugo stays or the DAC-V1 stays.

I wish Naim would share a roadmap, if I knew they were coming up with a new upgraded DAC with USB I would wait

Thanks for the reply.  Nice to hear from someone in a similar position to myself.  I love the performance I am getting from my system (v1 into sn2), and make extensive use of the USB input, which is appealing not just for versatility, but performs by far better than any of my SPDIF sources.  If USB was made available on an updated nDAC, there would be one in my house on demo...or owned, by Tuesday (subject to Naim's waiting list).  In the absence of that, or a suitable product to better it, I like yourself live in hope of nDAC2 soon. 

there is certainly demand for a DAC V2 - which is the same as DAC V1, but also upgradeable with a PSU like Hicap.

Also with a proper pre-volume control output stage?

analogmusic posted:

there is certainly demand for a DAC V2 - which is the same as DAC V1, but also upgradeable with a PSU like Hicap.

Also with a proper pre-volume control output stage?

It would be great if there was a DAC V2 which was the same as DAC V1 with an upgradable PSU, that sounded like a HUGO

eazyryder posted:

analogmusic posted:

there is certainly demand for a DAC V2 - which is the same as DAC V1, but also upgradeable with a PSU like Hicap.

Also with a proper pre-volume control output stage?

It would be great if there was a DAC V2 which was the same as DAC V1 with an upgradable PSU, that sounded like a HUGO

Nah, personally I hoping for an nDAC2.  No need for pre-amp and headphone amp, just a top notch reference level DAC than can be part of a top notch source.  Engineered to be as good as Naim can possibly make it in that one role, and to not sound like a Hugo, but much BETTER. ;-) 

I would definitely invest in an nDAC2 with USB

thijazi posted:

I would definitely invest in an nDAC2 with USB

Good point, yes, USB is a must also.

I have to say after a couple of days with the Hugo I am impressed, I found that regular FLAC files at different resolutions sound more or less the same between DAC-V1 and Hugo, couldn't really tell a big difference there, on the contrary at times the DAC-V1 sounded more controlled.

However, the improvement I hear with the Hugo when playing back DSD files is amazing, by far a richer, more natural and dynamic sound, the DAC-V1 plays DSD far quitter and more closed, flat like. I do have an old issue playing back DSD files via Roon on my DAC-V1, maybe the issue lies there, will try with JRiver tomorrow and see if I have better luck.

The two things that bother me with the Hugo are:

1- The power supply, seems no upgrade possibility there

2- The fact that I have wires going everywhere (front and back), a bit untidy to say the least

3- The fact that I can never figure out if I have disabled the volume control on the Hugo or not, the instructions are clear on what needs to be done to achieve that, but following the steps always gives me mixed results, it is so much clearer on the DAC-V1

Not sure if the Chord 2Qute is better than the Hugo when considering the above 3 points...

Anyway, the Hugo was a positive surprise, definitely DSD capability trumps the DAC-V1..

There is no point in upgrading the power supply because the Hugo runs off it battery and a different power supply would have no audible affect.  You can't 'disable' the volume either, you can set it so that it runs at a set volume but most of us have found that this is not the way to get the best sound from the Hugo.  Use the volume control to adjust the output until you think it sounds best - most people seem to think turquoise sounds best.  By the sound of things you haven't yet heard your Hugo at its best

thijazi posted:

I have to say after a couple of days with the Hugo I am impressed, I found that regular FLAC files at different resolutions sound more or less the same between DAC-V1 and Hugo, couldn't really tell a big difference there, on the contrary at times the DAC-V1 sounded more controlled.

However, the improvement I hear with the Hugo when playing back DSD files is amazing, by far a richer, more natural and dynamic sound, the DAC-V1 plays DSD far quitter and more closed, flat like. I do have an old issue playing back DSD files via Roon on my DAC-V1, maybe the issue lies there, will try with JRiver tomorrow and see if I have better luck.

The two things that bother me with the Hugo are:

1- The power supply, seems no upgrade possibility there

2- The fact that I have wires going everywhere (front and back), a bit untidy to say the least

3- The fact that I can never figure out if I have disabled the volume control on the Hugo or not, the instructions are clear on what needs to be done to achieve that, but following the steps always gives me mixed results, it is so much clearer on the DAC-V1

 

Not sure if the Chord 2Qute is better than the Hugo when considering the above 3 points...

Anyway, the Hugo was a positive surprise, definitely DSD capability trumps the DAC-V1..

 

The Chord 2Qute, even with a linear ps, is not as good as a Hugo ime.

G

thijazi posted:

I have to say after a couple of days with the Hugo I am impressed, I found that regular FLAC files at different resolutions sound more or less the same between DAC-V1 and Hugo, couldn't really tell a big difference there, on the contrary at times the DAC-V1 sounded more controlled.

However, the improvement I hear with the Hugo when playing back DSD files is amazing, by far a richer, more natural and dynamic sound, the DAC-V1 plays DSD far quitter and more closed, flat like. I do have an old issue playing back DSD files via Roon on my DAC-V1, maybe the issue lies there, will try with JRiver tomorrow and see if I have better luck.

The two things that bother me with the Hugo are:

1- The power supply, seems no upgrade possibility there

2- The fact that I have wires going everywhere (front and back), a bit untidy to say the least

3- The fact that I can never figure out if I have disabled the volume control on the Hugo or not, the instructions are clear on what needs to be done to achieve that, but following the steps always gives me mixed results, it is so much clearer on the DAC-V1

 

Not sure if the Chord 2Qute is better than the Hugo when considering the above 3 points...

Anyway, the Hugo was a positive surprise, definitely DSD capability trumps the DAC-V1..

 

Interesting stuff.  I don't have any DSD albums, and therefore have never tried DSD on the V1, seems it may not be its strong point anyway.  The fact that you hear little difference elsewhere seems strange.  Preferences aside, I would have expected there to be a notable difference at least.  However, there is a thought that crosses my mind here.  I assume you've been testing both via USB?  If so, that could be the leveling factor.  In my view, USB is where the V1 performs best.  There's nothing wrong with the SPDIF inputs, they're good, just less good than USB for some reason.  The Hugo on the other hand seems to excel when fed SPDIF from a worthy digital source, with the USB input, according to some being the weak part.  Maybe in a USB vs USB scenario, with PCM at least, the DAC-V1 has the edge, but probably not when fed via SPDIF.  Who knows?  Just a thought.

Your gripes remind of my own feelings though.  I've never heard a Hugo, and even though people love it, and it clearly punches above its weight, fact is, its not the product I want.  I do not require a portable DAC, I do not require a headphone amp, I don't want something that runs on batteries which will inevitably deteriorate, dodgy sockets, lightweight, flappy-about-thing.  How great it sounds, is not what's in question, though I have never heard one, but it's just not the product I want.  I did consider the 2qute, but that seems generally regarded as inferior and the output voltage is notably higher than is ideal for Naim pre-amps.  

It's a strange thing, I want to want a Hugo, but I don't, in fact it's so far from what I want, I can't even be bothered to buy one on the grounds that it's supposed to sound amazing. 

Songstream, I was of the same mindset which is why I tried the 2Qute first but ended up settling for the Hugo due to me preferring the sound of the Hugo, like GraemeH above. After trying the Hugo, despite me not needing portability, a headphone amp, battery power supplies or a flimsy little silver box... I was sold on sound quality alone. It took my system to the next level and beyond. Things may be different for yourself I'm sure but thought it may be worth mentioning in response to your post :-)