NAP 250DR vs. 300DR: How much better?

I wouldn't question your 23s. NDX/XPSDR may be the question. The 300 is in the league for nDAC or NDS IMHO.  

Chag -

Finkfan posted:

I heard the 250dr vs 300dr at the Naim demo at the Bristol show this year. These were also demoed against their older, non dr versions. The 250dr over the non dr was a big improvement. That cleaner power supply really does make a difference. The 300dr is just awesome and a big step up over the 250dr. More of everything. So much control, power, detail, PRaT. It completely blew me away. If I had my way that's what I'd be aiming for and that's where I'd stop. The difference between that and the 500dr was tiny to my ears and the price jump, huge. The separate power supply for the 300 once again shows why Naim do things this way. A big leap in performance and worth every penny over the 250. 

Which speaker they used for the demo ?

Anyway the new 300DR seems the sweet spot in the Nap range now, huge VFM for still reasonable money

Regards

Roberto

Hi Roberto

the demo was with the new Focal Sopra 2s. Sounded fantastic 

Hi Finkfan, thank you.                                                                                                                                                          I I was expecting this 

Regard

Roberto

Late last year I had an in-store demo of 250.2 v 250DR v 300DR. The system was pretty much a clone of my system then (CDX2.2/XP5XS/nDAC/555PS/282/SCDR/250.2/full SL loom), save for the Focal Sopra 2 speakers. I took along a friend unfamiliar with Naim gear to provide an wholly objective view.  The 250DR was a step up over the 250.2 but when the 300DR was plumbed in the whole system took-off. The sound-stage expanded significantly and the Sopras seemed to find some extra bass drivers.  At the end of the demo we went back to the 250.2. Hmm.

A home demo of the 300DR followed when those in-sore impressions were confirmed. The cost to me of upgrading to the 300DR was more than four times that of getting my 250 DR'ed, in part because I also needed to trade my one SL XLR for the twin, but the jump in performance for me was worth it.  So while I wouldn't discourage anyone from DRing their 250.2, which is a very nice upgrade, be aware that the 300DR is a big step up from the 250DR; one that will make you think you've got a bigger pair of speakers. If you can afford one, give it a listen.  

Mike  

Actually its an easy question the 300 is a much better amp then the 250 - not knocking the 250. I have over the  years used every single Naim amp on my way to the 500 and each stage the upgrade was a big step. Like wise with the pre-amps.  That is why I love Naim , as every time you upgrade on one hand you feel that it cannot justify the cost but on the other hand the performance does justify the cost .  The steps ups are huge. If you can afford it get the  300DR.

What do you think guys about the last Hi Fi News 500DR review ? For me  lame is to say the least, not a word  about source, preamp and speakers. At the end the conlusion was that a 250DR it's not miles away and the      500 in itself it's not so ebarassed by  theStatement.

For the 300 my suspicion is that it closed the gap with the 500.

Regards

Roberto

If it's a case of impatience then I wouldn't bet on getting hold of a new 250DR or 300DR in a hurry. There's a fly in the ointment there also and the wait for orders going in now is about a couple of months I think. Unless your dealer is sitting on stock of course, but that seems unlikely.

rsch posted:

What do you think guys about the last Hi Fi News 500DR review ? For me  lame is to say the least, not a word  about source, preamp and speakers. At the end the conlusion was that a 250DR it's not miles away and the      500 in itself it's not so ebarassed by  theStatement.

For the 300 my suspicion is that it closed the gap with the 500.

Regards

Roberto

I think John hit the nail on the head, when he stated in a previous post, the 282/SCDR/250DR is as good as its get, until one enters 552/500 territory!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

rsch posted:

What do you think guys about the last Hi Fi News 500DR review ? For me  lame is to say the least, not a word  about source, preamp and speakers. At the end the conlusion was that a 250DR it's not miles away and the      500 in itself it's not so ebarassed by  theStatement.

For the 300 my suspicion is that it closed the gap with the 500.

Regards

Roberto

I think John hit the nail on the head, when he stated in a previous post, the 282/SCDR/250DR is as good as its get, until one enters 552/500 territory!

 

Allante93!

Well....actually I'd like to hear 252/SCDR/300DR to put that to the test....

Actually, no I wouldn't.  £££££

Marksnaim posted:

Allante93 posted:

I think John hit the nail on the head, when he stated in a previous post, the 282/SCDR/250DR is as good as its get, until one enters 552/500 territory!

 Allante93!

Well....actually I'd like to hear 252/SCDR/300DR to put that to the test....

Actually, no I wouldn't.  £££££

Marksnaim, I can't seem to get anyone to confirm that the 250DR has increased it's power output.

I know Naim rates it at 80 watts @ 8 ohms, but I've seen spec's stating 92 watts @ 8 ohms & Dynamic power rated @ 93 watts at 8 ohms.

Andrew Everett Audio Review, Nap 250 DR

Check it out!

At the moment, there's a couple of 250DR post running, and the adjectives that keeps popping up are smoother and punchier, is the latter, due to an increase in power, anyone?

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Marksnaim posted:

Allante93 posted:

I think John hit the nail on the head, when he stated in a previous post, the 282/SCDR/250DR is as good as its get, until one enters 552/500 territory!

 Allante93!

Well....actually I'd like to hear 252/SCDR/300DR to put that to the test....

Actually, no I wouldn't.  £££££

Marksnaim, I can't seem to get anyone to confirm that the 250DR has increased it's power output.

I know Naim rates it at 80 watts @ 8 ohms, but I've seen spec's stating 92 watts @ 8 ohms & Dynamic power rated @ 93 watts at 8 ohms.

Andrew Everett Audio Review, Nap 250 DR

Check it out!

At the moment, there's a couple of 250DR post running, and the adjectives that keeps popping up are smoother and punchier, is the latter, due to an increase in power, anyone?

Allante93!

Does it really matter? Prior to getting a 300DR I would say that my previous 250.2 was the most powerful amp I've ever owned or tried, and on specs some had more than twice the power Naim quote for the 250.2.  When I was first thinking about getting a Naim pre-power to supplement my Naim front end I queried with my dealer the apparently modest output specs for the 250.2.  He smiled and said 'don't worry, the 250.2 could pull a train'. Having owned one for four years I never once thought it got anywhere near running out of puff or showing signs of strain.  

Mike   

I upgraded to 250-DR last year from the 250.2 and it is a big improvement as is well documented on the forum, I have recently demoed the 300-DR and am happy to report I have put in an order for one, it is a sensational amp and shoots way above the 250-DR, thats not to say the 250-Dr is not a good amp, I've loved having it in my system but the 300-DR is something else entirely, simply brilliant.

Rob T posted:

I upgraded to 250-DR last year from the 250.2 and it is a big improvement as is well documented on the forum, I have recently demoed the 300-DR and am happy to report I have put in an order for one, it is a sensational amp and shoots way above the 250-DR, thats not to say the 250-Dr is not a good amp, I've loved having it in my system but the 300-DR is something else entirely, simply brilliant.

I'm sure the 300DR will give you much pleasure, Rob.  I've been very pleased with mine.

Just have have to be patient with the wait now. 

Mike

MDS posted:

Rob T posted:

I upgraded to 250-DR last year from the 250.2 and it is a big improvement as is well documented on the forum, I have recently demoed the 300-DR and am happy to report I have put in an order for one, it is a sensational amp and shoots way above the 250-DR, thats not to say the 250-Dr is not a good amp, I've loved having it in my system but the 300-DR is something else entirely, simply brilliant.

I'm sure the 300DR will give you much pleasure, Rob.  I've been very pleased with mine.

Just have have to be patient with the wait now. 

Mike

Thats good to hear Mike, I have read your posts on the 300-Dr and that helped me in deciding my next upgrade....darn you Mike!!!

The wait is killing me but I know it`s gonna be worth it!

Rob.

Not sure if this is on topic but I put a powerline on my 300dr this week and it has really brought it alive. Much more than on the Superuniti. I don't have a dedicated supply but each item is plugged in separately to unstitched mk sockets. 

I recommend anyone who has a 300 should try out a  Powerline 

Awesome amp though. I only compared it to a 250.2 as a 250dr wasn't available at the time but liked it so much I just had to have it.

MDS posted:

Allante93 posted:

Marksnaim, I can't seem to get anyone to confirm that the 250DR has increased it's power output.

I know Naim rates it at 80 watts @ 8 ohms, but I've seen spec's stating 92 watts @ 8 ohms & Dynamic power rated @ 93 watts at 8 ohms.

Andrew Everett Audio Review, Nap 250 DR

Check it out!

At the moment, there's a couple of 250DR post running, and the adjectives that keeps popping up are smoother and punchier, is the latter, due to an increase in power, anyone?

Allante93!

Does it really matter? Prior to getting a 300DR I would say that my previous 250.2 was the most powerful amp I've ever owned or tried, and on specs some had more than twice the power Naim quote for the 250.2.  When I was first thinking about getting a Naim pre-power to supplement my Naim front end I queried with my dealer the apparently modest output specs for the 250.2.  He smiled and said 'don't worry, the 250.2 could pull a train'. Having owned one for four years I never once thought it got anywhere near running out of puff or showing signs of strain.  

Mike   

In most cases, It wouldn't matter, but in my particular case, Bi Amping Briks, with a 200 on the tweeters and 250.2 on the woofers and mids, it did matter.

With the 250.2 on the woofers & Mids, when playing at 9.5 to 11 o'clock at max for an half hour or more the 250.2 would go into thermo protection mode and shut off. When I switched, and put the 200 on the woofers and mids, no more heating problems.

Mr Richard Dane explained, with the 200 being a non-regulated amp, when the going got tough it would slip a little, whilst the 250.2 would not and continue to work hard, and with nearly double the hard wire and mechanisms, heat resulting in thermo protection mode!

My short term remedy, 3 x 250.2's Tri Amped Briks, not bad, next upgrade Snaxo 362/SCDR!

However, Badlands explained no increase in power, just Naims modest ratings to suggest that magical 1:2 Ratio, 80 watts @ 8 ohms, and 160 watts @ 4 ohms.

But when tested the 250.2 and 250DR is cranking out the spec's on Andrew Everett's review, 92 watts @ 8 ohms!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

MDS posted:

Allante93 posted:

Marksnaim, I can't seem to get anyone to confirm that the 250DR has increased it's power output.

I know Naim rates it at 80 watts @ 8 ohms, but I've seen spec's stating 92 watts @ 8 ohms & Dynamic power rated @ 93 watts at 8 ohms.

Andrew Everett Audio Review, Nap 250 DR

Check it out!

At the moment, there's a couple of 250DR post running, and the adjectives that keeps popping up are smoother and punchier, is the latter, due to an increase in power, anyone?

Allante93!

Does it really matter? Prior to getting a 300DR I would say that my previous 250.2 was the most powerful amp I've ever owned or tried, and on specs some had more than twice the power Naim quote for the 250.2.  When I was first thinking about getting a Naim pre-power to supplement my Naim front end I queried with my dealer the apparently modest output specs for the 250.2.  He smiled and said 'don't worry, the 250.2 could pull a train'. Having owned one for four years I never once thought it got anywhere near running out of puff or showing signs of strain.  

Mike   

In most cases, It wouldn't matter, but in my particular case, Bi Amping Briks, with a 200 on the tweeters and 250.2 on the woofers and mids, it did matter.

With the 250.2 on the woofers & Mids, when playing at 9.5 to 11 o'clock at max for an half hour or more the 250.2 would go into thermo protection mode and shut off. When I switched, and put the 200 on the woofers and mids, no more heating problems.

Mr Richard Dane explained, with the 200 being a non-regulated amp, when the going got tough it would slip a little, whilst the 250.2 would not and continue to work hard, and with nearly double the hard wire and mechanisms, heat resulting in thermo protection mode!

My short term remedy, 3 x 250.2's Tri Amped Briks, not bad, next upgrade Snaxo 362/SCDR!

However, Badlands explained no increase in power, just Naims modest ratings to suggest that magical 1:2 Ratio, 80 watts @ 8 ohms, and 160 watts @ 4 ohms.

But when tested the 250.2 and 250DR is cranking out the spec's on Andrew Everett's review, 92 watts @ 8 ohms!

Allante93!

I know the Briks very well and they are deserving of the near mythical status that surrounds them. But I can't help feeling strongly that a new pair of speakers in the same price range as a SNAXO, SCDR, plus whatever you could get for the 200 would be a better upgrade. There are some simply amazing speakers around now in the GBP 5-7K range that can be driven fine with a single 250.

If memory serves me well on Hi Fi News review, 250DR figures were 92-93W 8ohm and 160 w 4 ohm.

Regards

Roberto

With all this talk of increase in power output with the 250-DR has there been the same in increase in power output with the 300-DR I wonder?

I am not bothered either way as the 250-DR was very capable of driving my PMC 20-26 and I know the 300-DR will have no issues at driving almost any speaker but just curios.

ashrafs posted:

Actually its an easy question the 300 is a much better amp then the 250 - not knocking the 250. I have over the  years used every single Naim amp on my way to the 500 and each stage the upgrade was a big step. Like wise with the pre-amps.  That is why I love Naim , as every time you upgrade on one hand you feel that it cannot justify the cost but on the other hand the performance does justify the cost .  The steps ups are huge. If you can afford it get the  300DR.

But the definition of huge is subjective.  Having heard the 300dr in direct comparison with the 250dr I would say a clearly discernible difference but huge?

Regards,

Lindsay

Rob T posted:

With all this talk of increase in power output with the 250-DR has there been the same in increase in power output with the 300-DR I wonder?

I am not bothered either way as the 250-DR was very capable of driving my PMC 20-26 and I know the 300-DR will have no issues at driving almost any speaker but just curios.

 

""An [sic] Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it). "

To answer your question, I would imagine no increase in power with the 250, 300, or 500, just a conservative rating to achieve that 2:1 Ratio.

But don't take my word, Naim's website will confirm this! ( 80 watts @ 8 ohms )

I to, was curious when reading  Andrew Everett's review on the Naim's Nap 250 DR.

The specifications clearly states 92 watts @ 8 ohms, and a Dynamic output of 93 watts @ 8 ohms. 

Adjectives like clarity and quieter, surely shows the improvement of the 250DR over it's predecessor.

Mind you, even if there is no gain in power, the aforementioned adjectives translates into the another popular adjective associated with the 250DR, punchier!

Just my two cents!

Enjoy your Music!  (The why)

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

Rob T posted:

With all this talk of increase in power output with the 250-DR has there been the same in increase in power output with the 300-DR I wonder?

I am not bothered either way as the 250-DR was very capable of driving my PMC 20-26 and I know the 300-DR will have no issues at driving almost any speaker but just curios.

 

""An [sic] Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it). "

To answer your question, I would imagine no increase in power with the 250, 300, or 500, just a conservative rating to achieve that 2:1 Ratio.

But don't take my word, Naim's website will confirm this! ( 80 watts @ 8 ohms )

I to, was curious when reading  Andrew Everett's review on the Naim's Nap 250 DR.

The specifications clearly states 92 watts @ 8 ohms, and a Dynamic output of 93 watts @ 8 ohms. 

Adjectives like clarity and quieter, surely shows the improvement of the 250DR over it's predecessor.

Mind you, even if there is no gain in power, the aforementioned adjectives translates into the another popular adjective associated with the 250DR, punchier!

Just my two cents!

Enjoy your Music!  (The why)

Allante93!

As you rightly say increase or no increase the DR technology improves on the originals in all areas.

I think separating power supply with a twin box config is one on the key elements that push 300-DR performance above the 250-DR.

To the OP, quantify how much the 300-DR improves over the 250-DR is totally subjective and to a degree system dependent, all I can say imo and in my system the advantages with a 300-DR are far from subtle, again as mentioned by others, it offers the listener far greater soundstage, detail, control, clarity and timing,  it opens up a much bigger vista in the musical landscape with richer textures and layering.

Interestingly a good friend of mine has just had a home dem with the 300-DR, he has just placed an order with his dealer, he will be selling his 4x135s the 300-DR replaces, I think that gives some idea of what the 300-DR can do.

ATB

Rob.

Rob T posted:

Allante93 posted:

 

all I can say imo and in my system the advantages with a 300-DR are far from subtle, again as mentioned by others, it offers the listener far greater soundstage, detail, control, clarity and timing,  it opens up a much bigger vista in the musical landscape with richer textures and layering.

ATB

Rob.

I'd subscribe to that good description. Rob

Mike

MDS posted:

Rob T posted:

all I can say imo and in my system the advantages with a 300-DR are far from subtle, again as mentioned by others, it offers the listener far greater soundstage, detail, control, clarity and timing,  it opens up a much bigger vista in the musical landscape with richer textures and layering.

ATB

Rob.

I'd subscribe to that good description. Rob

Mike

I would also subscribe to that good description.

Rob

Just think how well Grahms, and soon to be DB's DRed amps are performing in an Active System, with Naim's Ovators! Not to mention an S1 Pre!

Allante93!