NAP 250DR vs. 300DR: How much better?

MDS posted:

greekspec2 posted:

time to put my NAP 250DR up for sale, hello NAP 300DR

Your Sopra 2 will suddenly seem even bigger when you do, greekspec2

M

Exactly what I'm looking for

It looks like the decision has been made for me. The serial number on my 250 has been called up suddenly by Naim for it's DR upgrade and I need to get over to the UK and through customs in just a few days or lose my place. 

A 300 can always happen later after source and speakers upgrade I suppose.

Interesting... I kind of wondered what you might do if your 250 got called for upgrade before you made a decision.

Hope you get it back without any delay. I'm sure you will be happy with it.

feeling_zen posted:

It looks like the decision has been made for me. The serial number on my 250 has been called up suddenly by Naim for it's DR upgrade and I need to get over to the UK and through customs in just a few days or lose my place. 

A 300 can always happen later after source and speakers upgrade I suppose.

Good news, hopefully 2-3 weeks!

Just looked over your profile, and we have a lot in common, besides being born on the same day!

282, HCDR, and 250.2, so I'm eager to here from you once all is in place.

Don't know how your rig is implemented, but by all means try the 282/SCDR/250DR combination, since it's at your disposal.

 As one gentlemen put it, it's as good as its get, until 552/500 Territory!

Out!

Allante93!

so as of now I pulled the trigger and ordered my NAP 300DR and sold my NAP 250DR

we shall see how my Sopra 2's react

Courtesy of my dealer and a good customer of theirs I have spent the last week with a demo 300DR to compare against my 250.2.  The DR upgrade was just completed on this nap 300 so cold on start up.  At this point it held its own against my 250.2, but after about 5 hours was moving ahead with more information coming through and wider 3D sound stage.  Day 3 showed to be a good step up with it obviously warming up.  The bass is different, I like it and the top end is more fluid. Has stayed pretty constant for rest of week, but does improve further with a powerline, more so than 250 for some reason.   It was not an optimised comparison as not within my Fraim stacks and so probably would be even further ahead of the 250 in reality.  Coming back to my 250 yesterday which was left powered up suggests the 300 is more mature and the 250 still has that remarkable boogie factor.  It must be quite hard for a retailer to demo the 300 against the 250, it does take some time to become accustomed to the difference and I can understand why some prefer the 250 and others the 300. I ordered the 300DR today, it is about a month away.  I'll report back on the new one when fully integrated with my system.  No doubt will take some time to warm up.

Regards Hutch

Well done Hutch! Look forward to your further observations once the new 300DR is bedded in. You have quite a system now. Interesting that the 250.2 held its own in such company.

Hi Hutch,

Congratulations, i see you recently upgraded to Ovator 600, please can you post some pics of them ? i have never seen this finish, must be gorgeus btw. I' ll receive mine in Zebrano this Monday.                                                         Now your system really begs for a 552.      How it copes the 250 with the 600s ?

Regards

Roberto

greekspec2 posted:

so as of now I pulled the trigger and ordered my NAP 300DR and sold my NAP 250DR

we shall see how my Sopra 2's react

I suspect your Sopra 2's are going to reward you handsomely.

Mike

MDS posted:

greekspec2 posted:

so as of now I pulled the trigger and ordered my NAP 300DR and sold my NAP 250DR

we shall see how my Sopra 2's react

I suspect your Sopra 2's are going to reward you handsomely.

Mike

they better at my expense.....

rsch posted:

Hi Hutch,

Congratulations, i see you recently upgraded to Ovator 600, please can you post some pics of them ? i have never seen this finish, must be gorgeus btw. I' ll receive mine in Zebrano this Monday.                                                         Now your system really begs for a 552.      How it copes the 250 with the 600s ?

Regards

Roberto

Hi Roberto, your new S 600's will be absolutely fantastic driven by the 250, I'm really enjoying mine although they are only about 6 weeks old so still running in.  Moondust finish is a piano gloss black with silver metallic specks.

Regards

Hutch

One of the great ironies in this is that the cost of my initial 250.2 plus shipping its 18Kg packaged bulk to Japan, followed by another round trip to UK and back for the DR upgrade, plus the DR upgrade itself is less than GBP1000 away from the cost of a 300DR.

Hindsight and 20.20 vision and all. No way of knowing DR was around the corner when I bought the 250.2.

feeling_zen posted:

One of the great ironies in this is that the cost of my initial 250.2 plus shipping its 18Kg packaged bulk to Japan, followed by another round trip to UK and back for the DR upgrade, plus the DR upgrade itself is less than GBP1000 away from the cost of a 300DR.

Hindsight and 20.20 vision and all. No way of knowing DR was around the corner when I bought the 250.2.

But the 250.2 is still a great amp. I thoroughly enjoyed owing one.  It seemed to deliver music, especially rock,  with a delightful sparkle.   

Mike

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

1st world problems are the best to have. I can tell you that when my circumstances changed 15 or so years ago leading to me selling a full Linn setup, it was 3rd world problems I was more concerned with. Such as living in a place where cocroaches shared my bed and trying to eat on GBP2 per day in an expensive country.

Saying that though, I realised that possessions own you, not the other way around. Every item you think you own is something you are responsible for. Losing everything once to the extent that even the shirt on my back wasn't mine was actually fantastically liberating.

I don't look at my Naim stack in the same way as I looked at my Linn stack for that humbling experience.

feeling_zen posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

1st world problems are the best to have. I can tell you that when my circumstances changed 15 or so years ago leading to me selling a full Linn setup, it was 3rd world problems I was more concerned with. Such as living in a place where cocroaches shared my bed and trying to eat on GBP2 per day in an expensive country.

Saying that though, I realised that possessions own you, not the other way around. Every item you think you own is something you are responsible for. Losing everything once to the extent that even the shirt on my back wasn't mine was actually fantastically liberating.

I don't look at my Naim stack in the same way as I looked at my Linn stack for that humbling experience.

Wise words, Grasshopper!

Hutch posted:

rsch posted:

Hi Hutch,

Congratulations, i see you recently upgraded to Ovator 600, please can you post some pics of them ? i have never seen this finish, must be gorgeus btw. I' ll receive mine in Zebrano this Monday.                                                         Now your system really begs for a 552.      How it copes the 250 with the 600s ?

Regards

Roberto

Hi Roberto, your new S 600's will be absolutely fantastic driven by the 250, I'm really enjoying mine although they are only about 6 weeks old so still running in.  Moondust finish is a piano gloss black with silver metallic specks.

Regards

Hutch

Hi Hutch, thank you

Was Monndust a standard or special request finish ? i was aware of an ordinary piano black finish.

Regards

Roberto

Kiwi cat posted:

feeling_zen posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

1st world problems are the best to have. I can tell you that when my circumstances changed 15 or so years ago leading to me selling a full Linn setup, it was 3rd world problems I was more concerned with. Such as living in a place where cocroaches shared my bed and trying to eat on GBP2 per day in an expensive country.

Saying that though, I realised that possessions own you, not the other way around. Every item you think you own is something you are responsible for. Losing everything once to the extent that even the shirt on my back wasn't mine was actually fantastically liberating.

I don't look at my Naim stack in the same way as I looked at my Linn stack for that humbling experience.

Wise words, Grasshopper!

A similar trip here Kiwi cat. It's great to be fortunate enough to build back up to where I was many years ago but I know that if fortunes change again I can let it all go. There are many more important things at the end of the day.

Hi Hutch, thank you

Was Monndust a standard or special request finish ? i was aware of an ordinary piano black finish.

Regards

Roberto

Hi Roberto, yes Moondust is a special order finish.  My dealer made the order and had them in stock for a while, when I heard the Ovators were being discontinued I bought them.  I have aspired to s 600's from first hearing some years back.  Made do with s 400's for years and they were great, but the 600's let through a lot more information, are more authoritative and have larger 3 D stage.  Do let us know  how you find them, as one of the biggest upgrades I have experienced.

Regards

Hutch

Marksnaim posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

feeling_zen posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

1st world problems are the best to have. I can tell you that when my circumstances changed 15 or so years ago leading to me selling a full Linn setup, it was 3rd world problems I was more concerned with. Such as living in a place where cocroaches shared my bed and trying to eat on GBP2 per day in an expensive country.

Saying that though, I realised that possessions own you, not the other way around. Every item you think you own is something you are responsible for. Losing everything once to the extent that even the shirt on my back wasn't mine was actually fantastically liberating.

I don't look at my Naim stack in the same way as I looked at my Linn stack for that humbling experience.

Wise words, Grasshopper!

A similar trip here Kiwi cat. It's great to be fortunate enough to build back up to where I was many years ago but I know that if fortunes change again I can let it all go. There are many more important things at the end of the day.

Exactly - when Mrs Strat was poorly last year - now thankfully fully recovered and on fine form - my amplifiers weren't my top priority.  

Marksnaim posted:

Kiwi cat posted:

feeling_zen posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Once again 1st world problems - whether to replace an amp widely regarded as one of the very best anywhere with an even better one!

1st world problems are the best to have. I can tell you that when my circumstances changed 15 or so years ago leading to me selling a full Linn setup, it was 3rd world problems I was more concerned with. Such as living in a place where cocroaches shared my bed and trying to eat on GBP2 per day in an expensive country.

Saying that though, I realised that possessions own you, not the other way around. Every item you think you own is something you are responsible for. Losing everything once to the extent that even the shirt on my back wasn't mine was actually fantastically liberating.

I don't look at my Naim stack in the same way as I looked at my Linn stack for that humbling experience.

Wise words, Grasshopper!

A similar trip here Kiwi cat. It's great to be fortunate enough to build back up to where I was many years ago but I know that if fortunes change again I can let it all go. There are many more important things at the end of the day.

Your last sentence says it all.

My, we are in philosophical mood today.

This 250DR has now become the most expensive 250 on the planet. Today, despite having all the correct return documents and HMRS Claim Releif forms, it was whacked with 20%VAT again on reentry to the UK. Makes you wonder what 30 pages of carefully prepared C&E documents are really for.

I half expected this, since a decade working for SWIFT (the Banking one, not the courrier) and handling literally 100s of complaints when users got whacked for customs and VAT arbitrarility irrespective of what paperwork was provided for various expensive hardware devices or courier used, I have come to have a fairly low opinion of this process. I've seen devices costing as much as a 552 go back and forth for servicing 10 times over a product lifespan and be hit with customs as much as 8 out of 10 of those trips. And in almost no case is any recourse permitted once the final invoice is issued even if (big if) they admit a mistake.

My 250 has not even reached Naim yet and already with all the shipping and erroneous VAT it has passed the line at which I could have bought a new 300DR. The shipping to the UK was astronomical because Naim gave such short notice for my serial number and a date by which they need it otherwise it misses its turn in the queue. Of course it may end up not just surpassing the cost of a new 300 but also be gone for months if C&E hold on to it for too long.

Sometimes you just have to vent knowing that that your hands are tied and between me, Naim, and my dealer, none are at fault.

feeling_zen posted:

This 250DR has now become the most expensive 250 on the planet. Today, despite having all the correct return documents and HMRS Claim Releif forms, it was whacked with 20%VAT again on reentry to the UK. Makes you wonder what 30 pages of carefully prepared C&E documents are really for.

I half expected this, since a decade working for SWIFT (the Banking one, not the courrier) and handling literally 100s of complaints when users got whacked for customs and VAT arbitrarility irrespective of what paperwork was provided for various expensive hardware devices or courier used, I have come to have a fairly low opinion of this process. I've seen devices costing as much as a 552 go back and forth for servicing 10 times over a product lifespan and be hit with customs as much as 8 out of 10 of those trips. And in almost no case is any recourse permitted once the final invoice is issued even if (big if) they admit a mistake.

My 250 has not even reached Naim yet and already with all the shipping and erroneous VAT it has passed the line at which I could have bought a new 300DR. The shipping to the UK was astronomical because Naim gave such short notice for my serial number and a date by which they need it otherwise it misses its turn in the queue. Of course it may end up not just surpassing the cost of a new 300 but also be gone for months if C&E hold on to it for too long.

Sometimes you just have to vent knowing that that your hands are tied and between me, Naim, and my dealer, none are at fault.

 

Didn't know this, this is a shock for me. And also unacceptable....

Hi,

my first post here.

About DR amps :

Last week, with friends, we spent an afternoon trying different amps : NAP 250.2, NAP 250.2 DR, NAP 300 (mine).

(On my system, with NAC 252 /  Supercap DR  )

We listened to jazz ( W Marsalis, Chet Baker, M Miller) and classical (Debussy Iberia).

The conclusions were the same that I can read here, and I agree with this : the 250 DR brings more detail, dynamics, big space, silence, and was superior to the 250.2 when plugged with the same mains cable.

Difficult to say between 250DR and NAP 300, who's the winner. Still, I have some little doubt about something I didn't read here.

We speak about dynamics, great detail, image, but what about finesse of the treble/medium, fidelity of the "tones", natural. I didn't read these words here.

The strings of the orchestra (Debussy), or the clarinet,  were not that beautiful with the DR.

I was expecting to upgrade my 300, now, what would that do with the things I question here...

I'm not so sure now, and a trial is not possible.

Maybe a longer session would dissipate these questions though...

Hi Athos, what are the speakers? Thanks.