SL Upgrade delay strategy...

A big box of network cables to test should keep you busy until the initial DR upgrade frenzy has settled down a bit. 

Ken - my anti-upgrade strategy is to decide to save up for a Statement

Would seriously recommend NOT mixing DRed and non-DRed 500s, Ken.  I tried this with 2x non-DR 300s and 1x DR 300.  The presentation and timing of the DR unit is so different from the older ones that it just sounded wrong, no matter which drive unit it was powering.

Perhaps, Ken, you should just do nothing. Put your feet up and enjoy what you've got. £7,000 plus for speaker cables is so expensive. As you know I have a DR amp and SL cables throughout, but with 'just' a 250 and 3m cables the price was not too crazy. DR and SL does go wonderfully well together, but when you get into active 500 territory the price of feeding the system to keep it current becomes scarily expensive. Just a thought - I wonder how a single 500DR with SL cables might sound compared with your current active setup. 

ChrisSU posted:

A big box of network cables to test should keep you busy until the initial DR upgrade frenzy has settled down a bit. 

i'm done with network cables Chris -- i didnt just give up -- i reached a very definite conclusion -- in the context of my system. the Cat6a UTP cables i have settled on now are in fact the cheapest of all that i tried. but i get the joke...

enjoy

ken

Chris Dolan posted:

Ken - my anti-upgrade strategy is to decide to save up for a Statement

 

radikal thought!i calculated that total cost of SL and DR upgrades in my case in about  £25K. Statement, plus the then necessary house move, is off the scale, especially considering that i would need NAC S1 + 4xNAP S1!! You can buy many MC cartridges for that ...

enjoy

ken

Graham Clarke posted:

Would seriously recommend NOT mixing DRed and non-DRed 500s, Ken.  I tried this with 2x non-DR 300s and 1x DR 300.  The presentation and timing of the DR unit is so different from the older ones that it just sounded wrong, no matter which drive unit it was powering.

thanks for sharing this Graham. do you think this would be like mixing amps in general anyhow -- or is DR/non DR somehowmuch worse?

enjoy

ken

Hungryhalibut posted:

Perhaps, Ken, you should just do nothing. Put your feet up and enjoy what you've got. £7,000 plus for speaker cables is so expensive. As you know I have a DR amp and SL cables throughout, but with 'just' a 250 and 3m cables the price was not too crazy. DR and SL does go wonderfully well together, but when you get into active 500 territory the price of feeding the system to keep it current becomes scarily expensive. Just a thought - I wonder how a single 500DR with SL cables might sound compared with your current active setup. 

this is in fact my default position Nigel -- i.e. do nothing! to do the next step properly will take some serious upgrading for serious money. i suppose i tend to warm up to DR upgrades because these are black box upgrades and not 'just wires' -- its a psychological thing.

SL+500DR passive vs 2x500nonDR active ? although 'active' is rather adictive -- this is an interesting thought Nigel and one a friend on this parish has mentioned.

Hmmm...

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Perhaps, Ken, you should just do nothing. Put your feet up and enjoy what you've got. £7,000 plus for speaker cables is so expensive. As you know I have a DR amp and SL cables throughout, but with 'just' a 250 and 3m cables the price was not too crazy. DR and SL does go wonderfully well together, but when you get into active 500 territory the price of feeding the system to keep it current becomes scarily expensive. Just a thought - I wonder how a single 500DR with SL cables might sound compared with your current active setup. 

this is in fact my default position Nigel -- i.e. do nothing! to do the next step properly will take some serious upgrading for serious money. i suppose i tend to warm up to DR upgrades because these are black box upgrades and not 'just wires' -- its a psychological thing.

SL+500DR passive vs 2x500nonDR active ? although 'active' is rather adictive -- this is an interesting thought Nigel and one a friend on this parish has mentioned.

Hmmm...

enjoy

ken

Ken, I would be more than happy to 'look after' your spare 500 if you decide to experiment with the passive route! No need to thank me, I'm good like that!

nigelb posted:

Ken, I would be more than happy to 'look after' your spare 500 if you decide to experiment with the passive route! No need to thank me, I'm good like that!

hmmm... cant even remember where i put the SL2 passive crossovers now... 

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

nigelb posted:

Ken, I would be more than happy to 'look after' your spare 500 if you decide to experiment with the passive route! No need to thank me, I'm good like that!

hmmm... cant even remember where i put the SL2 passive crossovers now... 

enjoy

ken

Happy to come round and help you look for those crossovers, could pick up the spare 500 for safe keeping at the same time. No trouble, honestly.

As you say, idle minds......

ken c posted:

Graham Clarke posted:

Would seriously recommend NOT mixing DRed and non-DRed 500s, Ken.  I tried this with 2x non-DR 300s and 1x DR 300.  The presentation and timing of the DR unit is so different from the older ones that it just sounded wrong, no matter which drive unit it was powering.

thanks for sharing this Graham. do you think this would be like mixing amps in general anyhow -- or is DR/non DR somehowmuch worse?

enjoy

ken

I've heard mixed amps (e.g. 300 + 250) in active systems a few times (but never at home) and it sounded OK. 

Mixing DR and non-DR I've only heard this at home and the sound was constantly unsettling.  The speed (timing) is different with DR and it has a different sound in general so it was not a good mix.

Think of mixed amps as "more of the same" but DR/non-DR as quite different.

Sorry, I know that's quite vague, but it is hard to explain!

Graham Clarke posted:

I've heard mixed amps (e.g. 300 + 250) in active systems a few times (but never at home) and it sounded OK. 

Mixing DR and non-DR I've only heard this at home and the sound was constantly unsettling.  The speed (timing) is different with DR and it has a different sound in general so it was not a good mix.

Think of mixed amps as "more of the same" but DR/non-DR as quite different.

Sorry, I know that's quite vague, but it is hard to explain!

Thanks Graham -- very useful info from actual experience in active system... great!

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

been thinking about next upgrade for my system -- the most sensible thing to do at this stage is probably to go for the SL speaker cables -- 4x7m lengths -- serious money!! but i am beginning to think perhaps there is an alternative next step. my 500 amps are quite different in vintage -- one is 2014 while the older one is 2007 (this one on bass). so i am thinking of getting this serviced as its near 9 years, though i gather NAP500 doesnt necessarily cry for service @10years. But the logic is that i could get the 500 DR's at the same time. i could then put the DR'd 500 on HF duties -- but  this may produce a strange effect -- will cross that bridge etc etc...

the advantage of this DR route is that there is absolutely no hurry as Naim have a huge upgrade/service backloag anyhow -- so this will give me time to forget about it all for a while and enjoy what i have till Naim are less backlogged.

idle minds...

enjoy

ken

In my view the DR500 and SL speaker leads are both very worthwhile in different ways - but I would choose the SL speaker leads as the first priority over the DR500 into NAC A5.

But since this is not the answer you really want - obviously ignore!

My reason is that as superb as the DR upgrade is, I feel if you have already got the other SL cables - and very especially the DIN-XLR SL leads, then the SL speaker leads remove a horrible lump in the bass that these seem to push against that I didn't like at all - and I think the DR500 will only add to that problem.

But speakers are different, so it may not manifest in your system as it did in mine. Bass problems are things I can't abide, but people are different. I'm also not saying NAC A5 has that problem of itself, just in combination with the SL DIN XLR leads - and with full-range loudspeakers that let you hear it.

DB.

Ken, why not buy some new music instead?

Sometimes I think some of us just get into upgrade mode because we keep hearing the same tracks on the system and evaluating how it sounds.

I just played a brand new album (the wanderings of the avener) on my 282/250, and it sounded foot tapping musically good (if you ever heard it you will understand why), and that last thing on my mind was any kind of upgrading including SL cables, I was enjoying the music (for a change)

Darke Bear posted:

In my view the DR500 and SL speaker leads are both very worthwhile in different ways - but I would choose the SL speaker leads as the first priority over the DR500 into NAC A5.

But since this is not the answer you really want - obviously ignore!

My reason is that as superb as the DR upgrade is, I feel if you have already got the other SL cables - and very especially the DIN-XLR SL leads, then the SL speaker leads remove a horrible lump in the bass that these seem to push against that I didn't like at all - and I think the DR500 will only add to that problem.

But speakers are different, so it may not manifest in your system as it did in mine. Bass problems are things I can't abide, but people are different. I'm also not saying NAC A5 has that problem of itself, just in combination with the SL DIN XLR leads - and with full-range loudspeakers that let you hear it.

DB.

actually DB this is the view i am hearing from other folk as well -- so definitely not to be ignored. however, i am not sure i am aware of this horrible lumb you refer to -- but perhaps i am just insensitive to it. but thanks for input -- helps with the thinking...

enjoy

ken

analogmusic posted:

Ken, why not buy some new music instead?

Sometimes I think some of us just get into upgrade mode because we keep hearing the same tracks on the system and evaluating how it sounds.

I just played a brand new album (the wanderings of the avener) on my 282/250, and it sounded foot tapping musically good (if you ever heard it you will understand why), and that last thing on my mind was any kind of upgrading including SL cables, I was enjoying the music (for a change)

not sure i understand this? what makes you think i am not buying new music? and why is one action 'instead' of the other?

enjoy

ken

just respectfully saying it is really lot of money to spend on SL cables... maybe best to enjoy the system "as is" as HH says, 7000 GBP is a huge amount of money.

I would rather buy 7000 GBP worth of vinyl  

Ken - you could try mono 

Chris Dolan posted:

Ken - you could try mono 

you an only do that with Quad, ooops sorry... 

enjoy

ken

ken c posted:

actually DB this is the view i am hearing from other folk as well -- so definitely not to be ignored. however, i am not sure i am aware of this horrible lump you refer to -- but perhaps i am just insensitive to it. but thanks for input -- helps with the thinking...

enjoy

ken

If you don't hear any problem then there is none!

Mine was also running-in at the time, especially the DIN-XLR leads, so if you have these very run-in it may work-out better for you.

I would say that I think the upgrades from the SL speaker leads are very significant - they are different from the DR upgrade, both very substantial but I think I'd still go with the leads first. The leads gave overall clarity and removal of rubbish and much lower noise - I feel that I heard my 500 for the first time and as a very different and better amp. The DR also gives clarity and improved dynamics, much more lower bass clarity and power too.

It is obviously personal - I hate hearing 'restrictions' in the system as if something is trying to get past something that cannot handle what it is being asked to do. I suppose it is why I went Active years ago. So the DR500 will be pushing even more at the speakers through the A5 - shame you can't get your Dealer to demo it and then decide if it bothers you, or, as you said, you don't mind the effect.

DB.

thanks again DB. i get the sense that these SL wires (speaker and DIN XLR) and DR upgrades are kind of 'made for each other' such that one will not have a complete picture till one has them all.

" I hate hearing 'restrictions' in the system as if something is trying to get past something that cannot handle what it is being asked to do.". I must admit since going active, i tend not to hear any such restrictions in any obvious/unpleasant way -- though i am of course aware that the SL2s do not not really go that deep -- one needs DBLs for that.

for me, the impact of the 2 SL upgrades i have made so far -- especially the SL snaxo cable -- was more along the lines of - gosh! i didnt know there was so much more music in this recording!! In some ways, that made me feel slighty uncomfortable as i started wondering what else i was missing without the full loom and sans-DR on the 500s. (I also kind of sense that my older 500 (on LF)  would benefit from a service -- thought i dont sit there and say - ah! thats the LF 500 screwing things up :-)

It is very good though, and consistent with Naim approach that we know and love, that there are so many ways available to raise the musical bar of our systems. It is also great that, even if i did nothing at all -- i.e. didnt bother with any of the upgrades -- i would still be happy. To be honest, i was happy with my first 32.5/Hicap/250/Kan system -- but 'upgrades' are what keeps this hobby alive i guess...

enjoy

ken

Darke Bear posted:

In my view the DR500 and SL speaker leads are both very worthwhile in different ways - but I would choose the SL speaker leads as the first priority over the DR500 into NAC A5.

But since this is not the answer you really want - obviously ignore!

My reason is that as superb as the DR upgrade is, I feel if you have already got the other SL cables - and very especially the DIN-XLR SL leads, then the SL speaker leads remove a horrible lump in the bass that these seem to push against that I didn't like at all - and I think the DR500 will only add to that problem.

But speakers are different, so it may not manifest in your system as it did in mine. Bass problems are things I can't abide, but people are different. I'm also not saying NAC A5 has that problem of itself, just in combination with the SL DIN XLR leads - and with full-range loudspeakers that let you hear it.

DB.

A very simply solution here is to use Chord Sarum Super Aray XLR-DINs instead, these not only cost less but totally outclass Super Lumina, plus there is no weird bass lumpyness to contend with which gives the option to keep the naca5. What a wonderful saving that is for the active speaker folk! 

Debs 

this is the kind of solution that makes perfect musical and financial sense to me 

naim_nymph posted:

A very simply solution here is to use Chord Sarum Super Aray XLR-DINs instead..........

I would agree Debs, but I'm not sure that Ken would favour the pick 'n' mix approach