Stable control point for UPnP

Thanks Simon, any suggestions for computer? And, any suggestions related to the last question I added?

I've tried all sorts of computer control points and none work as well as N Stream. Nothng I've tried will play continuous tracks (like an opera) without gaps between the tracks or actually change the volume.

Hi - well I use a tiny WHS machine that sits on a book shelf. It seem to have plenty of welly and can stream to mutiple devices concurrently and even transcode whilst doing it. WHS machines are great - tiny power consumption and they run silently and efficiently and you can forget all about them.

I can only assume your server is running out of buffer space or some application or process is grabbing the CPU or network/disk IO  if you are getting regular interruptions.

Also using Asset uPNP with N-Stream I don't get gaps between tracks. I was pleaseantly suprised by this becasue I had been led to beleive that would happen with uPNP and the NDX.

The only irritant - and I am sure/hope Naim are addressing it is seeking within a file. For long pieces such as classical pieces - the current lack of seek is rather poor.

Simon

Hello aysil

I have been having a similar experience over the past nine months with little success. I have tried the three CP’s you mention and none worked for me.

The only CP I have found to work is this one. However, I doubt you will like it as it has a text based selection process, you only see artwork once the track begins playing; not very user friendly.

Today, following a chat with HQ, I downloaded J River Media Centre (should have listened to Patrick). Wow, it certainly works very well and seems to be extremely customisable once you get your head around it. It was transcoding to mp3 when installed but this was easily switched off. Not had much time to listen properly yet so hoping the SQ will be ok.

It might be time (past time in fact) to start tracking down a Serve to try. I like you have no interest in an n-stream/wireless solution.

Peter

hmmm.

try elyric again. I havent experienced any crashes worth writing home about.  Not more than any other app.  Every once in a while, with all apps, you simply restart.  1 in 100 crashed, maybe reboot.

Overall it is as stable as the iOS devices themselves which is far more robust than any Mac ive played with.

-patrick

For a PC use Jriver.  Hands down.

Foobar is nice if you like to fiddle (still my favorite player).

Both PP and eLyric have nice volume sliders but yes, not gapless unless the streamer/renderer use playlists the way they developed them to.  They should be gapless with PSAudio, Boulder and Linn at least.

Naim might have their own way of doing things as with JRiver.

If I demand gapless (and sometimes do), I simply initiate playback in J River/Foobar.  From there I can control volume, next/prev, seek, pause etc within WebRemote (J River's webbrowser used anywhere, but nice formatted for iPhone), or Remote (hijacked for Foobar).

Unfortunately, if you start playback in J River, it does not send the whole "playing now playlist" to the control point.  The same goes the other way as well.

JRiver is looking into "linn-type" playlists.  PP dev dosen't think he can use JRiver's method without breaking the app.

eLyric will be in the same boat.  It is made, by PP devs, for PSAudio products and they most likely wont be interested in changing their whole world.  They feel like they have selected a fairly ubiquitous method.  At least as much as is possible given the multitude of potential options.  Their app doesn't even stay connected to Wifi when locked or minimized, for now.....  (coming in next build).  It doesn't need to because it sends along the entire playlist to the renderer.  Therefore gapless.

I think Naim works similarly. 

+1 for going with a single mfr for all components.

-Patrick

I believe it is first dependent on the Server to be able to play gaplessly.

Then the Server must be able to communicate with the Renderer in order to "send it the playlist"..... i think.... or something like that.

That is why I like to use full fledged media players as my Server.  You know it can at least do what you want on its local machine.  JRiver will play gaplessly to other zones.  I am guessing it would to a Naim Renderer (Anyone???).

It doesn't play gapless when I start playback from my non-JRMC control point, e.g. PP, eLyric.  As they handle the playlists differently.

It does if I start playback with JRMC's WebRemote.

-Patrick

Cheers!  Killer program huh?  Sexy.

I have noticed no difference between it and Foobar in terms of SQ.  I wouldn't expect it anyway.  Both ASIO out to Juli@ soundcard.  Both sound fantastic.

When using the players' volume controls though, I find I seem to prefer JRiver slightly.  I dont use it very often though and typically use my Harmony for the 102 and keep player volumes maxed.  I typically only use it for a quick mute when someone's yelling at me.

Set up two Servers.  One to send everything "uncompressed" (or whatever), and one to "Medium Bandwidth MP3".  Name the 1st "Home" and 2nd "Remote"

Then you can stream the "Remote" server to PP on your iPhone, or J River at your office PC.  You can install at least 2 copies of JRMC with your license (if personal use).  If you want to install on a few more I think you only need to email Jim and ask/tell him.  They wont charge you or anything i dont think.

I have my old 3G (no S) permanently docked and connected to my office system.  All of my music from home at my fingertips.  IYummy!  (in this case I think it does play gaplessly.  When PP is both control point and renderer, i think it works)

-patrick

I stand up from the couch to see the screen on the Uniti and I use the remote to browse.

It feels a bit like an unfinished solution but like you I have not found anything that is at the same time reliable and easy to use.

I tried the Ipad in stores several times and I know I do not want one. Should I buy one just to use it as a remote? I floated the idea at home, then was told I was out of my mind.

Well yeah!!!  Ive seen people spend more on Philips remotes.

Or get an iPhone 3gS (must be S or later).

There is no other way.  Great devices both.

-p

A nice device could be a naim remote with a little screen inside....no cover art but easy, fast and not expensive like an iphone 3gs....

Patrick,

As you are the one who is recommending the JRiverMP, I want to ask you: Is there a UPnP control point component in this player, or are you recommending it as the server for any other control point?

There were also members who had reported positive impressions with Asset Control, Kinsky, e-lyric, and other cp on computers (pc or mac). They have not taken word on this thread yet. I wonder if their positive impressions have persisted in the long term as well.

Hi aysil

While you wait for Patrick who will be able to answer you more fully I’m sure, I can tell you how it is working for me having installed it yesterday.

JRMC is I think best described as both the server and control point. Once installed and the DNLA server switched on it will display any renderers that it finds, including the computer it is installed on. You simply select what you wish to hear and tell it to play it on whichever device you wish. Having played several albums this morning it offered to select tracks to play which I said yes to, It’s now playing track 105 of the selection it made with another 104 queued. The longer it plays the more tracks it adds.

I think that you may, like me, really only want a simple control point, but I must say that the more I learn about this program the more I am warming to it. It has an interesting Theatre mode, which if you switch to with music playing downloads images from the net, so is like a relevant screensaver of the track playing. This might be a step to far but I can imagine it might be useful at parties, keep the guests quite!

Peter

Keith

I agree N-Stream very stable and quick on iPad 1 and Asset uPNP. My requests for improvement are

1) On the Fly favourites

2) Track seek (really miss this big time - and more a function of NDX rather than N-Stream

3) Have an artist information lookup like eLyric. I really love that feature and sort of makesup a tiny bit for lack of CD cover info.

Simon

Something tells me this will cost more than an iPod Touch or iPhone.  How much was that R-Com remote?

popular auction sites have hundreds of 3Gs iPhone for under $150.  Buy one under contract for $49 (refurb) with AT&T then simply break the contract.  Whatever.

-p

Well JRMC is a control point in an of itself of course.  Just like using any media player.  Only you will select output to be your renderer.  Just like the "speakers" option in iTunes, but with multiple different streams capability. 

The "built-in" EXTERNAL control point for JRiver would be WebRemote.  It is browser based and therefore will run on anything with a browser, e.g. iPhone, iTouch, iPad, laptop, PC, Mac, Desktop, Android, Blackberry etc.......  Pick your poison.

They also developed an Android App called "Gizmo" i think.

Or you can use any UPNP control point for iOS such as eLyric or Plugplayer.

And yes, I would recommend it as a SERVER, unless you have an HDX (or NS0x) or N-Serve, regardless of control point choice.

-p

Patrick and Peter,

I am still trying to figure out JRiver. I must say its foremost characteristic is not ease of use. I managed to control playback of NDX, and the front panel screen of NDX has also detected JR as a server. I still have several issues: One is that it shows albumartwork of only the windows "sample" music. None of my naim downloads are exhibited with artwork. Second problem is that it still is not exhibiting my music collection stored in the HDX harddisk. Most of my collection is stored in this location. I found a way to bypass the file import restriction of HDX and storing even internet downloads on HDX hard disk (for reasons I will explain on an other thread)

Aysil,

1)  Do your Naim rips have a"folder.jpg" in each file folder?

2) Is it even possible to have JRiver access the HDX drives?  Not sure on how to do that if even possible.

I am now a little confused.... you have an HDX?  So you want J River as a server and control point, and the HDX as a ripping hard drive?

I thought the HDX had its own PC based GUI.  NO? 

I love J River but if you already have a Naim Server i would probably just use that.  If you dont like the control point options for HDX Server and are only going to use it for ripping and storage, you might as well sell it and rip on your PC and buy a NAS.  Then use J River as your server.

Just a thought.

Lastly, you will find quick and thorough help at the J River Forum.

-Patrick

Patrick,

HDX has its own PC based GUI, yes. This GUI controls only the local playback through analogue or dig out; it is not a control point when HDX is functioning only as stream server and the playback is through a separate stream client device (NDX in my case). (HDX may seem as an overkill together with NDX; I am in fact trying to figure out which one to keep, if not both)

As I already have a Naim server, I was interested in JRiver not primarily as a server, but as a computer based playback control point for NDX. It has great features, but it does not prove to be the most convenient option in my case. The control point and server functions seem inseparable; if you use it as control point, you can not use HDX as the server. BTW, JRiver seems able to provide gapless together with NDX.